Curious from others who may have more insight into the coaching fraternity. A lot has been said about expecting a "learning curve" with a new coach. If a coach has been assisting and taking notes throughout their career, what are the areas that hit a new coach that they just can't prepare for until they are the top dog?

Managing the game? Motivating players with your unique personality? Delegating staff? Etc. ?

Is it unique to every coach? Once you're a head coach is it about minimizing problems in whatever skill you're not strongest at?

I think you have to break it into 2 categories...

1. First time head coach at any collegiate program - this is where Rowe falls. There are the additional tasks that weren't there previously such as interacting with media, being the leader of the program and making ultimate decisions in all facets not just in-game management/leadership but recruiting, practices, disciplinary, dealing with alums/fans, and all other demands regarding managing time effectively.

2. Previous head coaching experience but at new program - likely has a much better feel than #1 above, but it doesn't guarantee success above #1 nor is it easy in the early days. IOW, there is still a "learning curve" with new faces, new media types and new alums/fans to deal with, etc. This coach likely comes in with some history - likely positive vibe in most cases - to analyze by all the armchair experts out there. This head coach may - and I stress "may" - be less flexible due to things working in his/her system in the past. Like #1 above has to deal with players from previous regime - getting them to buy in like Houston has with FB is a challenge.

It is more the norm for a head coach regardless of either category to take 3 years to really get things going. For every guy who started winning big immediately, there are 5 or more successful head coaches where it took several years (and patient administrators/fans) to get things on the right track...but, when they did, the foundation was set for decades. Looking back at names like K at Duke, Dean Smith at UNCheat, etc., for example. It's good they didn't have the internet back in the early 80's. Duke fans, for instance, hated the hire of K in the first place and after 3 seasons of crappy results, they wanted him run out of town. Imagine if the internet tough guys were around back then to blow it up even more. Lou Rowe is no K and never will be most likely. But, he will get through this learning curve and by end of Year 3 Bourne will have a body of work that is fair and large enough to better evaluate whether he is the guy for the future at JMU. We'll see...

(11-28-2017 10:39 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  I think you have to break it into 2 categories...

1. First time head coach at any collegiate program - this is where Rowe falls. There are the additional tasks that weren't there previously such as interacting with media, being the leader of the program and making ultimate decisions in all facets not just in-game management/leadership but recruiting, practices, disciplinary, dealing with alums/fans, and all other demands regarding managing time effectively.

2. Previous head coaching experience but at new program - likely has a much better feel than #1 above, but it doesn't guarantee success above #1 nor is it easy in the early days. IOW, there is still a "learning curve" with new faces, new media types and new alums/fans to deal with, etc. This coach likely comes in with some history - likely positive vibe in most cases - to analyze by all the armchair experts out there. This head coach may - and I stress "may" - be less flexible due to things working in his/her system in the past. Like #1 above has to deal with players from previous regime - getting them to buy in like Houston has with FB is a challenge.

It is more the norm for a head coach regardless of either category to take 3 years to really get things going. For every guy who started winning big immediately, there are 5 or more successful head coaches where it took several years (and patient administrators/fans) to get things on the right track...but, when they did, the foundation was set for decades. Looking back at names like K at Duke, Dean Smith at UNCheat, etc., for example. It's good they didn't have the internet back in the early 80's. Duke fans, for instance, hated the hire of K in the first place and after 3 seasons of crappy results, they wanted him run out of town. Imagine if the internet tough guys were around back then to blow it up even more. Lou Rowe is no K and never will be most likely. But, he will get through this learning curve and by end of Year 3 Bourne will have a body of work that is fair and large enough to better evaluate whether he is the guy for the future at JMU. We'll see...

I agree with you but the problem is for every new "Coach K" there are dozens of failures. It usually seems guys like him come from a strong coaching tree (he played for and coached with Bobby Knight) and without that type of history and experience it seems like an even bigger gamble. Does our leadership really have that kind of eye for evaluating MBB coaching potential? Me thinks not.

what the learning curve doesnt account for is that Smooth Lou is the GOAT

Also, you have to take in to account the staff. For Rowe, I feel this group of assistants are better than a year ago. If we can keep most of the assistants intact for another year that would be beneficial.

Like 2Buck hit on, I think the coaches that a guy has been around in his coaching career have a lot to do with how he's going to be. There's a lot to be said about the coaching tree you fall from. When you have a successful coach to learn under, it's easier to be a good coach yourself. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly not a guarantee of success, but it certainly is an asset.

I wonder how many coaches have become really successful outside of working under winning mentors

(11-28-2017 02:00 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  I wonder how many coaches have become really successful outside of working under winning mentors

I'm sure there are more, but the one that comes to mind for me is Beilein at Michigan. I would suspect there aren't many.

(11-28-2017 02:00 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  I wonder how many coaches have become really successful outside of working under winning mentors

(11-28-2017 02:08 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 02:00 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  I wonder how many coaches have become really successful outside of working under winning mentors

I'm sure there are more, but the one that comes to mind for me is Beilein at Michigan. I would suspect there aren't many.

Yep. Would be a very small percentage I'd think. Just like in non-athletics, most good managers in the business world likely learned from good managers as well as bad managers (what not to do).

John Wooden never served as an assistant coach, FWIW. Rowe played for both Lon Kruger when at Florida before transferring to JMU to play for the Lefthander. He played for 2 greats, but different story with regards to coaching under as an assistant.

I loved Lou Rowe as a player. I don't think anybody understands how silky smooth that dude was.

I would love him as JMU's head coach a lot more if he'd been a head coach in the DIII or DII ranks for a while to learn the trade. There is a big difference between being an assistant with just certain duties, and being head coach, with the weight of the entire program on your shoulders. We shouldn't be anyone's first Big Boy Job.

Lou looks like he's aged quite a bit this past year and a half

(11-28-2017 02:57 PM)Dukes94 Wrote:  I loved Lou Rowe as a player. I don't think anybody understands how silky smooth that dude was.

I would love him as JMU's head coach a lot more if he'd been a head coach in the DIII or DII ranks for a while to learn the trade. There is a big difference between being an assistant with just certain duties, and being head coach, with the weight of the entire program on your shoulders. We shouldn't be anyone's first Big Boy Job.

Well, he's here now. And will be for at least the next 16 months (hopefully more). I imagine this Dukes alum appreciates as much support as he can get.

(11-28-2017 02:08 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 02:00 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  I wonder how many coaches have become really successful outside of working under winning mentors

I'm sure there are more, but the one that comes to mind for me is Beilein at Michigan. I would suspect there aren't many.

Beilein had uncles who were lifetime coaches and he worked his way up as a HC from the HS level, but was never an assistant at any level.

Rowe was an unconventional hire- there aren't too many comps for him as a coach. I was thinking Earl Grant of COC in terms of possible trajectory (bad first season, improved 2nd, good 3rd) but Earl was on staff with Gregg Marshall for a few years (at Winthrop and Wichita State) before going to Clemson for a few years. It doesn't mean that Lou can't lead JMU MBB to have success but it's definitely a different set of circumstances then some of the coaches that have been mentioned.

FWIW the things that Rowe stresses and are about happen to be the things that were lacking previously. He talks about toughness, about communication with his players, about recruiting young guys from the area to JMU. He may not be great at articulating in a press conference but he must have articulated his vision well enough during the interview process and the familiarity on both sides helped him overcome the lack of resume to get the job.

During yesterday's presser Rowe made mention a couple of times to things that lead me to believe that he gets it- he loves JMU basketball and wants to see the program return to the level it was when he was playing but he may know that he is a bridge in the program to help instill a culture that may have been lacking. Just my read based on his comments. We'll see what happens the next few years leading up to the new arena.

I agree with the comment about the staff- I could make a case that JMU has two assistants on staff that may be future head coaching candidates at the D1 level. Byron Taylor who helped coach the Dukes when Rowe was ejected in the CAAT game and was on staff at North Florida for a few years prior and Rob Summers who was already a head coach at the D2 level before joining Rowe's staff. Whatever the case it's a nice staff and a nice group of young men HCLR has brought into the program. It will be fun to watch them all develop together.

(11-29-2017 07:49 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Rowe was an unconventional hire- there aren't too many comps for him as a coach. I was thinking Earl Grant of COC in terms of possible trajectory (bad first season, improved 2nd, good 3rd) but Earl was on staff with Gregg Marshall for a few years (at Winthrop and Wichita State) before going to Clemson for a few years. It doesn't mean that Lou can't lead JMU MBB to have success but it's definitely a different set of circumstances then some of the coaches that have been mentioned.

FWIW the things that Rowe stresses and are about happen to be the things that were lacking previously. He talks about toughness, about communication with his players, about recruiting young guys from the area to JMU. He may not be great at articulating in a press conference but he must have articulated his vision well enough during the interview process and the familiarity on both sides helped him overcome the lack of resume to get the job.

During yesterday's presser Rowe made mention a couple of times to things that lead me to believe that he gets it- he loves JMU basketball and wants to see the program return to the level it was when he was playing but he may know that he is a bridge in the program to help instill a culture that may have been lacking. Just my read based on his comments. We'll see what happens the next few years leading up to the new arena.

I agree with the comment about the staff- I could make a case that JMU has two assistants on staff that may be future head coaching candidates at the D1 level. Byron Taylor who helped coach the Dukes when Rowe was ejected in the CAAT game and was on staff at North Florida for a few years prior and Rob Summers who was already a head coach at the D2 level before joining Rowe's staff. Whatever the case it's a nice staff and a nice group of young men HCLR has brought into the program. It will be fun to watch them all develop together.

Kenny Brooks was the model.