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Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
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RoosHouse Offline
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Post: #1
Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
This may be in the threads, but why is NMSU not taking their position in Sun Belt Football. I was sad to hear them drop.
11-28-2017 12:38 AM
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SDHornet Offline
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RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
Both were FB only memberships. Both booted at the same time. SBC didn't need them for the CCG due to the rule change so no need to feed extra mouths. The math was pretty simple, thus the decision fairly easy.
11-28-2017 12:40 AM
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RoosHouse Offline
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RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
Ok Why does the Sun belt not want NMSU anyway? The fit in except maybe geography but Texas St is there.
11-28-2017 12:42 AM
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NeptunianEmp Offline
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RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.
11-28-2017 12:43 AM
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CPslograd Offline
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RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
(11-28-2017 12:43 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.

NMSU would be a good fit for the Sunbelt, and the SunBelt would be agood fit for the Raggies. They'd elevate basketball in the league, and it's a league they've now shown repeatedly they can compete in football in. I think you have to hold out for that until you just can't hold out anymore financially.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 02:20 AM by CPslograd.)
11-28-2017 02:19 AM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
Benson hates and I mean hates NMSU. As long as he is commissioner he will try to maneuver things to keep NMSU out.
11-28-2017 01:18 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
Benson used NMSU and Idaho to save his WAC Commissioner job. NMSU was foolish to leave the SBC in the first place. Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada, and Boise State were not programs to be trusted. Right now, NMSU would be sitting pretty either in the Sun Belt or CUSA if they had declined the WAC invitation like North Texas. Regionally, NMSU is a fit with the MWC schools but financially they are just asking to be a perennial cellar dwellers.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 02:58 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
11-28-2017 02:04 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
(11-28-2017 12:43 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.

Basically, the Belt said no to NMSU for the following reasons

1) The Eastern schools F***ed you guys. They want to pivot the league to the East

2) Idaho was getting tossed. No hate, just geography. An 11 team league for football is hard to manage. If JMU were interested in joining, they and NMSU would be 11 and 12. The Belt wanted to a 12th team to go along with NMSU, and that member needed to be a team that was supported by the Eastern teams. JMU is really the only team that could get that done. And their administration absolutely has zero interest in the Sun Belt Conference (their fans are interested though).

3) The Belt felt no obligation to NMSU, as a result of NMSU's departure from the Belt to join the WAC years ago. I don't think that anyone is particularly mad at NMSU over it, but still...members could credibly say "NMSU hasn't acted like they owe us anything, so no need to put ourselves out to help them"

---

Just so everyone knows, NMSU needed nine votes to stay in the league. The basketball only schools in the league get votes too (I think they both voted for you guys).

---

Its a shame, I'd personally like to have you guys. But not if USA is in the East, or if we add Liberty to balance you guys. See if your president can get on the horn with the JMU President and tell him to apply with you guys. I think that would get you in.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 02:52 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-28-2017 02:47 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
(11-28-2017 02:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 12:43 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.

Basically, the Belt said no to NMSU for the following reasons

1) The Eastern schools F***ed you guys. They want to pivot the league to the East

2) Idaho was getting tossed. No hate, just geography. An 11 team league for football is hard to manage. If JMU were interested in joining, they and NMSU would be 11 and 12. The Belt wanted to a 12th team to go along with NMSU, and that member needed to be a team that was supported by the Eastern teams. JMU is really the only team that could get that done. And their administration absolutely has zero interest in the Sun Belt Conference (their fans are interested though).

3) The Belt felt no obligation to NMSU, as a result of NMSU's departure from the Belt to join the WAC years ago. I don't think that anyone is particularly mad at NMSU over it, but still...members could credibly say "NMSU hasn't acted like they owe us anything, so no need to put ourselves out to help them"

---

Just so everyone knows, NMSU needed nine votes to stay in the league. The basketball only schools in the league get votes too (I think they both voted for you guys).

---

Its a shame, I'd personally like to have you guys. But not if USA is in the East, or if we add Liberty to balance you guys. See if your president can get on the horn with the JMU President and tell him to apply with you guys. I think that would get you in.

Our President is in his final months, leaves in the summer of 2018. He and our AD did everything they could with trying to get into the SBC. How much time and money does NMSU need to waste on a conference that doesn't want us?
11-28-2017 03:09 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
(11-28-2017 03:09 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 02:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 12:43 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.

Basically, the Belt said no to NMSU for the following reasons

1) The Eastern schools F***ed you guys. They want to pivot the league to the East

2) Idaho was getting tossed. No hate, just geography. An 11 team league for football is hard to manage. If JMU were interested in joining, they and NMSU would be 11 and 12. The Belt wanted to a 12th team to go along with NMSU, and that member needed to be a team that was supported by the Eastern teams. JMU is really the only team that could get that done. And their administration absolutely has zero interest in the Sun Belt Conference (their fans are interested though).

3) The Belt felt no obligation to NMSU, as a result of NMSU's departure from the Belt to join the WAC years ago. I don't think that anyone is particularly mad at NMSU over it, but still...members could credibly say "NMSU hasn't acted like they owe us anything, so no need to put ourselves out to help them"

---

Just so everyone knows, NMSU needed nine votes to stay in the league. The basketball only schools in the league get votes too (I think they both voted for you guys).

---

Its a shame, I'd personally like to have you guys. But not if USA is in the East, or if we add Liberty to balance you guys. See if your president can get on the horn with the JMU President and tell him to apply with you guys. I think that would get you in.

Our President is in his final months, leaves in the summer of 2018. He and our AD did everything they could with trying to get into the SBC. How much time and money does NMSU need to waste on a conference that doesn't want us?

That's not the way to look at it, unless you have better options. You guys do have support in the Belt, just know that there were four or five schools that didn't want you as an 11th member for football and a 13th for basketball. I think you guys got a majority, just not a two thirds majority

And I don't think the schools that voted against you guys are implacably opposed. Especially if you could give the schools that largely opposed you guys solely on geographic concerns, a reason to mitigate those concerns. You guys have teams that want you in the league, and several will continue to propose you guys. It sucks that the Belt requires 9 votes, but that's the way things ended up then. Might be different in the future.

I was just noting that if somehow JMU could be convinced to apply with you guys, everyone in the Belt would get what they wanted.

1) Eastern schools would get JMU
2) Western schools would get NMSU
3) USA could stay in the West, Troy can move to the East
4) Basketball would be helped
5) The "school that shall not be named" wouldn't be on the table
6) NMSU gets a stable home for basketball and FBS football, and one that is close to one of our bowl tie ins.

Win, win, win, win.

----

That being said, JMU doesn't appear to be interested. So I suppose NMSU's best options now are to either figure out how to bolster the WAC, or convince the Summit, Big Sky, Southland, or Big West to add you guys as a non-football member. I wish y'all luck, and hopefully you'll sort it all out.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 03:35 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-28-2017 03:34 PM
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Post: #11
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
(11-28-2017 12:43 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.

No one will blame NMSU if that happens and they have to do what's in their best interest. But I would be a little disappointed because I see you as a western school at your core. I can't picture Troy, Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina or Georgia Southern as your rivals. NMSU's ideal conference is probably the 90s Big West with a Texas State or USA tossed in.
11-28-2017 04:48 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
(11-28-2017 04:48 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 12:43 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.

No one will blame NMSU if that happens and they have to do what's in their best interest. But I would be a little disappointed because I see you as a western school at your core. I can't picture Troy, Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina or Georgia Southern as your rivals. NMSU's ideal conference is probably the 90s Big West with a Texas State or USA tossed in.

Its entirely possible that you just named four of the schools that might have voted to block NMSU. USA might have been opposed too if that meant they'd be in the East division (USA strongly prefers staying West). Georgia State might have been another. I think the vote was 7-5 or 6-6 on NMSU's admission. Flip 2 of them, and you might have the numbers.

The problem for NMSU right now is that unless they're paired with JMU, or some school looking to defect from CUSA East to the Belt (unlikely), there's no one there that can provide a benefit to the Eastern schools in return for adding NMSU. Missouri State doesn't do it. Jacksonville State isn't getting a bid so long as Troy, USA, and Georgia State are in the league, there's no team in Florida that is that is capable of being considered in the medium term, and EKU just isn't going to be that much of a draw either. The FBS independent in the footprint is a complete and total non-starter for the league (I see 2 votes for admission for them - max).

Basically, the way NMSU gets in.....the Western schools, who largely (and some of them STRONGLY) want NMSU in the league hold up the application of JMU until they cave in on NMSU's application. Some of the Western schools are actually somewhat irritated (I wouldn't say pissed, but irritated) about NMSU's non-extension and would be very willing to return the favor as a way of getting what they want.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 07:42 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-28-2017 07:39 PM
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NeptunianEmp Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
(11-28-2017 07:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 04:48 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 12:43 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.

No one will blame NMSU if that happens and they have to do what's in their best interest. But I would be a little disappointed because I see you as a western school at your core. I can't picture Troy, Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina or Georgia Southern as your rivals. NMSU's ideal conference is probably the 90s Big West with a Texas State or USA tossed in.

Its entirely possible that you just named four of the schools that might have voted to block NMSU. USA might have been opposed too if that meant they'd be in the East division (USA strongly prefers staying West). Georgia State might have been another. I think the vote was 7-5 or 6-6 on NMSU's admission. Flip 2 of them, and you might have the numbers.

The problem for NMSU right now is that unless they're paired with JMU, or some school looking to defect from CUSA East to the Belt (unlikely), there's no one there that can provide a benefit to the Eastern schools in return for adding NMSU. Missouri State doesn't do it. Jacksonville State isn't getting a bid so long as Troy, USA, and Georgia State are in the league, there's no team in Florida that is that is capable of being considered in the medium term, and EKU just isn't going to be that much of a draw either. The FBS independent in the footprint is a complete and total non-starter for the league (I see 2 votes for admission for them - max).

Basically, the way NMSU gets in.....the Western schools, who largely (and some of them STRONGLY) want NMSU in the league hold up the application of JMU until they cave in on NMSU's application. Some of the Western schools are actually somewhat irritated (I wouldn't say pissed, but irritated) about NMSU's non-extension and would be very willing to return the favor as a way of getting what they want.

The only Eastern SB school that may be willing to vote us in might be GaSo. This is probably the case because we have a home and home scheduled with them in the upcoming seasons. Other than that I don't know of any Eastern school that gives a rats ass about us. That being said UALR is currently doing a study about football. If they do pick it up, we could very well see NMSU reinvited to the Sun Belt.
11-28-2017 09:54 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
(11-28-2017 09:54 PM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 07:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 04:48 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 12:43 AM)NeptunianEmp Wrote:  Both NMSU and Idaho were not extended invitations to continue in the SBC. The claim was travel distance which was especially strenuous for games at Idaho. The SBC also decided not to keep us when the NCAA ruled that a conference needs only 10 football teams to have a conference championship.

Depending on how this current season finishes out, and with our future schedules, we may be re invited to the SBC. There are some universities that wanted us to stay and we very well could move over there for full membership if the WAC continues to implode.

No one will blame NMSU if that happens and they have to do what's in their best interest. But I would be a little disappointed because I see you as a western school at your core. I can't picture Troy, Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina or Georgia Southern as your rivals. NMSU's ideal conference is probably the 90s Big West with a Texas State or USA tossed in.

Its entirely possible that you just named four of the schools that might have voted to block NMSU. USA might have been opposed too if that meant they'd be in the East division (USA strongly prefers staying West). Georgia State might have been another. I think the vote was 7-5 or 6-6 on NMSU's admission. Flip 2 of them, and you might have the numbers.

The problem for NMSU right now is that unless they're paired with JMU, or some school looking to defect from CUSA East to the Belt (unlikely), there's no one there that can provide a benefit to the Eastern schools in return for adding NMSU. Missouri State doesn't do it. Jacksonville State isn't getting a bid so long as Troy, USA, and Georgia State are in the league, there's no team in Florida that is that is capable of being considered in the medium term, and EKU just isn't going to be that much of a draw either. The FBS independent in the footprint is a complete and total non-starter for the league (I see 2 votes for admission for them - max).

Basically, the way NMSU gets in.....the Western schools, who largely (and some of them STRONGLY) want NMSU in the league hold up the application of JMU until they cave in on NMSU's application. Some of the Western schools are actually somewhat irritated (I wouldn't say pissed, but irritated) about NMSU's non-extension and would be very willing to return the favor as a way of getting what they want.

The only Eastern SB school that may be willing to vote us in might be GaSo. This is probably the case because we have a home and home scheduled with them in the upcoming seasons. Other than that I don't know of any Eastern school that gives a rats ass about us. That being said UALR is currently doing a study about football. If they do pick it up, we could very well see NMSU reinvited to the Sun Belt.

Is UALR now doing a study? I knew UTA was considering reviving its football program at some point but I don't know how that would really help NMSU as they would be a western team? Which means the SBC would more than likely add another eastern team as a counter balance.

In order for NMSU to draw conference interest in the future, NMSU football needs to NOT suck and NMSU basketball would need to draw much more national recognition as a giant killer. AND, Aggie attendance has to reflect being a successful program.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2017 03:05 AM by NMSUPistolPete.)
11-28-2017 10:08 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
UALR is not really, the city of Little Rock is pushing for it. UALR is not going to add football, lack the resources. It really was designed to push Arkansas to host games at War Memorial. This is a big deal for business to have an SEC game there. Arkansas no longer host two games a year there, as they get greater revenue at their home stadium. Little Rock used to get an full blown SEC game plus some FCS warm up. Recently just FCS games, so the study got started. (That SEC game is huge for tourist revenue when fans came in for Tennessee, LSU or Ole' Miss)

And it seems to have worked a bit:

http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/11/arkan...rock-2018/
11-29-2017 02:56 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
1) the UALR study is probably not going anywhere other than a desk shelf.
2) if UTA started football, it would remove the biggest complaint that Texas State has, which is a lack of close football rivals
3) if UALR or UTA stated football, you'd see USA oppose any western additions as they don't want to be in the SBC East
4) It could also cause problems for Arkansas State. They heavily recruit Alabama, and if another Western school gained admission as a football team, Arkansas State would be locked out of Alabama in conference play.

UALR (or UTA) starting football makes the Sun Belt situation even more complicated for NMSU. You could see USA and Arkansas State arguing for an 11 team league with USA in the West so that they'd be where they wanted to be. And it wouldn't remove the objections of the schools that want to shift the conference East from still being opposed.

In other words, UALR or UTA adding football doesn't do much to cause the schools opposed to you guys to change their minds, and provides a strong incentive for two of the schools that did (one probably, the other confirmed) support you to change from pro-NMSU to against NMSU. Both USA and Ark State are very influential in the league.

Also of note, I think that both UALR and UTA voted for you guys (Just speculation on my part). And they already have a vote. So either team adding football would not provide you with an additional vote for admission.

NMSU needs an eastern team to join (and not Liberty). EKU doesn't have the votes (and probably wouldn't be enough of a draw for the Eastern teams). LU is a non-starter. Jax State is too close to three of the teams. That leaves JMU as pretty much the only team out there who could make it work....

Unless the NCAA demands that a CCG be dependent upon having 12 teams. In that case, its possible that the Big XII raid on the AAC filters down to CUSA/MWC and that opens up a slot in the MWC for you guys. Plus the Belt would take you guys if they needed a team.

BTW, JMU has really f-ed a bunch of programs. Their refusal to jump to the MAC helped force UMass out of the conference and into FBS Independent purgatory. Their refusal to join the Belt probably is why you guys are in FBS purgatory as well. But they'd rather have a home schedule filled with Elon and the Blue Hose of Presbyterian than make the move. And they have a FBS budget in FCS.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2017 11:11 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-29-2017 10:28 AM
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NuMexAg Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
Location, location, location.

That is NMSU's primary problem. Everything else is a great fit, but we are just too far west for several of the Sun Belt schools.

To TomInLazybrook's point - maybe someday JMU will change their mind and could provide a great eastern counterbalance to NMSU.

I'm not holding my breath though.
12-02-2017 01:49 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
They're taking our place as a bowl team from the Sun Belt. Congrats, Aggies!
12-02-2017 09:47 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Why isn't NMSU taking Idaho's place?
December 29th, that is awesome for a G5 school. A lot of extra practice time. A lot of G5 get those December 16 games, just under two weeks and during finals.
12-03-2017 01:41 PM
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