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The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
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NoDak Offline
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The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
http://www.kvrr.com/2017/11/27/und-ndsu-...ge-series/

NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, and future Summit member UND have scheduled a challenge series against Montana, Montana St, Idaho and EWU for 2018-19 in men's basketball. This will be the year that the those Big Sky teams will be waiting to jump to the Summit as the Big Sky requires two seasons for no exit fees. By 2019-20, all those teams plus USD and Denver will be in the same conference. Posters are cordially invited to a board meltdown now, as so many have insisted that group would never be a conference together and no compelling reasons that they would be interested in each other, as it was just pushed by one poster who supposedly had no idea what he was proposing. The series is for four years, but it won't take long for those to be conference games, as it would be natural for all of them to join together under one conference banner.

IPFW to the Horizon, ORU to the WAC and W Illinois to the OVC is what will happen to set off the newest Summit members. The Dakota's, Montana's, Idaho, EWU, Omaha, and Denver are just transitioning to a conference schedule with those schools.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 12:29 AM by NoDak.)
11-27-2017 11:50 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-27-2017 11:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  http://www.kvrr.com/2017/11/27/und-ndsu-...ge-series/

NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, and future Summit member UND have scheduled a challenge series against Montana, Montana St, Idaho and EWU for 2018-19 in men's basketball. This will be the year that the those Big Sky teams will be waiting to jump to the Summit as the Big Sky requires two seasons for no exit fees. By 2019-20, all those teams plus USD and Denver will be in the same conference. Posters are cordially invited to a board meltdown now, as so many have insisted that group would never be a conference together and no compelling reasons that they would be interested in each other, as it was just pushed by one poster who supposedly had no idea what he was proposing. The series is for four years, but it won't take long for those to be conference games, as it would be natural for all of them to join together under one conference banner.

IPFW to the Horizon, ORU to the WAC and W Illinois to the OVC is what will happen to set off the newest Summit members. The Dakota's, Montana's, Idaho, EWU, Omaha, and Denver are just transitioning to a conference schedule with those schools.

What's the incentive for ORU to leave a fairly stable, relatively compact geographically Summit League for a WAC that has trouble keeping above the NCAA minimum of 7 members for auto bids? The WAC is even more spread out than the AAC, without the luxury of TV exposure, access to major airports with easy direct flights, or revenue from TV or NCAA credits.
11-28-2017 12:51 AM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 12:51 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 11:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  http://www.kvrr.com/2017/11/27/und-ndsu-...ge-series/

NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, and future Summit member UND have scheduled a challenge series against Montana, Montana St, Idaho and EWU for 2018-19 in men's basketball. This will be the year that the those Big Sky teams will be waiting to jump to the Summit as the Big Sky requires two seasons for no exit fees. By 2019-20, all those teams plus USD and Denver will be in the same conference. Posters are cordially invited to a board meltdown now, as so many have insisted that group would never be a conference together and no compelling reasons that they would be interested in each other, as it was just pushed by one poster who supposedly had no idea what he was proposing. The series is for four years, but it won't take long for those to be conference games, as it would be natural for all of them to join together under one conference banner.

IPFW to the Horizon, ORU to the WAC and W Illinois to the OVC is what will happen to set off the newest Summit members. The Dakota's, Montana's, Idaho, EWU, Omaha, and Denver are just transitioning to a conference schedule with those schools.

What's the incentive for ORU to leave a fairly stable, relatively compact geographically Summit League for a WAC that has trouble keeping above the NCAA minimum of 7 members for auto bids? The WAC is even more spread out than the AAC, without the luxury of TV exposure, access to major airports with easy direct flights, or revenue from TV or NCAA credits.

The Dakota's are not inexpensive to fly too. The WAC mostly is much cheaper and it has a KC bus trip and has much more potential ORU students and actual ORu alumni near those cities. It's a slam dunk move for ORU.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 02:00 AM by NoDak.)
11-28-2017 12:56 AM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
Remember NoDak, you said the great North would be forming by 4 20 18.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
11-28-2017 01:52 AM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 01:52 AM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Remember NoDak, you said the great North would be forming by 4 20 18.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Remember, Joey, you and others said those schools have no interest in the Summit. ORU will announce its going to the WAC and the Summit will be in crisis. Those four schools will announce their shift by that date.

In summary,

UCDavis
Cal Poly
SAC St
Move to an FBS WAC.

Sam Houston St
Lamar
S F Austin
Incarnate Word
Move to the FBS WAC from Southland

Azusa Pacific ( will be invited to WAC)
Cal Baptist
Seattle
UVU
Move to the Big Sky from WAC

EWU
Idaho
Montana
Montana St
Move to the Summit which will become FBS

The new Big Sky:
Portland St
Seattle ( no fb)
Idaho St
Weber St ( maybe joins the Summit later)
UVU ( add fb later)
SUU
Dixie St ( DII move up)
NAU
Cal Baptist (no fb)
Azusa Pacific
No Colo
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 02:20 AM by NoDak.)
11-28-2017 01:58 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
Memo to file: I think NoDak is delusional, not because he thinks that UM/MSU/UI to the Summit is a reasonable idea (it's plausible, just unsupported by evidence), but that it's a lock to happen, and everyone's going to upgrade to FBS, and probably get a unicorn to boot.

(EDIT: Wow, the FBS WAC again. I think we have our unicorn.)

That said, if the schools are moving conferences, why bother scheduling the OOC series?

EDIT 2: Question withdrawn, the series is to start before the Big Sky schools would be able to move without paying exit fees.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 08:55 AM by johnbragg.)
11-28-2017 08:50 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 12:51 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 11:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  http://www.kvrr.com/2017/11/27/und-ndsu-...ge-series/

NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, and future Summit member UND have scheduled a challenge series against Montana, Montana St, Idaho and EWU for 2018-19 in men's basketball. This will be the year that the those Big Sky teams will be waiting to jump to the Summit as the Big Sky requires two seasons for no exit fees. By 2019-20, all those teams plus USD and Denver will be in the same conference. Posters are cordially invited to a board meltdown now, as so many have insisted that group would never be a conference together and no compelling reasons that they would be interested in each other, as it was just pushed by one poster who supposedly had no idea what he was proposing. The series is for four years, but it won't take long for those to be conference games, as it would be natural for all of them to join together under one conference banner.

IPFW to the Horizon, ORU to the WAC and W Illinois to the OVC is what will happen to set off the newest Summit members. The Dakota's, Montana's, Idaho, EWU, Omaha, and Denver are just transitioning to a conference schedule with those schools.

What's the incentive for ORU to leave a fairly stable, relatively compact geographically Summit League for a WAC that has trouble keeping above the NCAA minimum of 7 members for auto bids? The WAC is even more spread out than the AAC, without the luxury of TV exposure, access to major airports with easy direct flights, or revenue from TV or NCAA credits.

Yeah no major airports in WAC citiies, Chicago, Kansas City, Phoenix, and Seattle. Good callout.
11-28-2017 09:00 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
Once again, it's not the idea of the flagships-and-landgrants of the big relatively empty states forming a likeminded conference away from the directional riffraff that's crazy. The Dakotas, the Montanas and Idaho (plus a few selected friends like Denver, UN-Omaha, maybe UMKC*) forming a Great Plains version of the Big West or the WCC or the Patriot League is not crazy, and has institutional advantages.

It's when you declare with very thin evidence (and after making some big bold predictions that busted, big time) that it is a certainty that you're on shaky ground.

And then when you declare that this will include an FBS upgrade, which The Powers That Be have shown no appetite for, that you start sounding like a crazy person.

* Maybe even Eastern Washington, which to me would seem to defeat the purpose of the exercise, but not my circus not my monkeys.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 09:05 AM by johnbragg.)
11-28-2017 09:01 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 09:00 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 12:51 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 11:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  http://www.kvrr.com/2017/11/27/und-ndsu-...ge-series/

NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, and future Summit member UND have scheduled a challenge series against Montana, Montana St, Idaho and EWU for 2018-19 in men's basketball. This will be the year that the those Big Sky teams will be waiting to jump to the Summit as the Big Sky requires two seasons for no exit fees. By 2019-20, all those teams plus USD and Denver will be in the same conference. Posters are cordially invited to a board meltdown now, as so many have insisted that group would never be a conference together and no compelling reasons that they would be interested in each other, as it was just pushed by one poster who supposedly had no idea what he was proposing. The series is for four years, but it won't take long for those to be conference games, as it would be natural for all of them to join together under one conference banner.

IPFW to the Horizon, ORU to the WAC and W Illinois to the OVC is what will happen to set off the newest Summit members. The Dakota's, Montana's, Idaho, EWU, Omaha, and Denver are just transitioning to a conference schedule with those schools.

What's the incentive for ORU to leave a fairly stable, relatively compact geographically Summit League for a WAC that has trouble keeping above the NCAA minimum of 7 members for auto bids? The WAC is even more spread out than the AAC, without the luxury of TV exposure, access to major airports with easy direct flights, or revenue from TV or NCAA credits.

Yeah no major airports in WAC citiies, Chicago, Kansas City, Phoenix, and Seattle. Good callout.

Also, Los Angeles and Salt Lake City.
11-28-2017 09:19 AM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
A Montana-Dakota centric conference has been an institutional goal of all those schools Presidents for two generations, especially UND and NDSU. The Montanas have a very cogent reason to leave now as the Big Sky has been reduced to mostly commuter schools. Idaho was not in favor of it back then, but this will be a path back to FBS so all the sudden they are totally aboard. EWU is near a key city for the Montana's and Idaho and provide a travel partner for Idaho so they get included. Denver and Omaha are pulled in because they want to associate with UND hockey, as that is the financial basis for their athletic programs.

This is an alignment that has been in the works for years, since the WAC dropped football.
11-28-2017 09:46 AM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
Personal knowledge of an alignment situation is just net accepted here, that is obvious.
11-28-2017 09:48 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
Regardless of plausibility, I'd love to see these conferences:

Big Sky
North Dakota
North Dakota St
South Dakota
South Dakota St
Montana
Montana St
Idaho
Idaho St
Eastern Washington
Portland St

Great West
UC Davis
Sacramento St
Cal Poly
San Diego
Weber St
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
11-28-2017 10:06 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
http://kwsn.com/news/articles/2017/nov/2...agreement/

Four year series, spear-headed by Montana State's AD, designed to give OOC home games for each school.

"We're excited about this opportunity and appreciate all of (Montana State Director of Athletics) Leon Costello's hard work in putting this together," said South Dakota State Director of Athletics Justin Sell, who along with Jackrabbit coaching staff was crucial to the agreement process. "Men's basketball scheduling can be a challenge, and this series guarantees a quality Division I opponent coming to Frost Arena each season. It's a blend of two highly competitive conferences, and a mutually beneficial scheduling agreement for everyone involved."
11-28-2017 11:12 AM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 11:12 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  http://kwsn.com/news/articles/2017/nov/2...agreement/

Four year series, spear-headed by Montana State's AD, designed to give OOC home games for each school.

"We're excited about this opportunity and appreciate all of (Montana State Director of Athletics) Leon Costello's hard work in putting this together," said South Dakota State Director of Athletics Justin Sell, who along with Jackrabbit coaching staff was crucial to the agreement process. "Men's basketball scheduling can be a challenge, and this series guarantees a quality Division I opponent coming to Frost Arena each season. It's a blend of two highly competitive conferences, and a mutually beneficial scheduling agreement for everyone involved."

I'm shocked a basketball scheduling alliance for teams that have a hard time getting opponents to come to their arenas. Clearly its a super duper secret conference forming.
11-28-2017 11:30 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 11:12 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  http://kwsn.com/news/articles/2017/nov/2...agreement/

Four year series, spear-headed by Montana State's AD, designed to give OOC home games for each school.

"We're excited about this opportunity and appreciate all of (Montana State Director of Athletics) Leon Costello's hard work in putting this together," said South Dakota State Director of Athletics Justin Sell, who along with Jackrabbit coaching staff was crucial to the agreement process. "Men's basketball scheduling can be a challenge, and this series guarantees a quality Division I opponent coming to Frost Arena each season. It's a blend of two highly competitive conferences, and a mutually beneficial scheduling agreement for everyone involved."


Costello is the former Assistant Athletic Director at South Dakota State. I'm sure NoDak will see the connection between he and SDSU AD Sell as a key to the creation of a new Great Northern league, but in reality is is simply a smart move, using the relationship to create an alliance both leagues need that will help fill scheduling gaps which all mid- and low-mid majors face.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 01:10 PM by jacksfan29.)
11-28-2017 01:09 PM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 09:48 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Personal knowledge of an alignment situation is just net accepted here, that is obvious.

Personal knowledge?

Looking forward to 4/20/18. I've marked my calendar.
11-28-2017 01:11 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 01:09 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 11:12 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  http://kwsn.com/news/articles/2017/nov/2...agreement/

Four year series, spear-headed by Montana State's AD, designed to give OOC home games for each school.

"We're excited about this opportunity and appreciate all of (Montana State Director of Athletics) Leon Costello's hard work in putting this together," said South Dakota State Director of Athletics Justin Sell, who along with Jackrabbit coaching staff was crucial to the agreement process. "Men's basketball scheduling can be a challenge, and this series guarantees a quality Division I opponent coming to Frost Arena each season. It's a blend of two highly competitive conferences, and a mutually beneficial scheduling agreement for everyone involved."


Costello is the former Assistant Athletic Director at South Dakota State. I'm sure NoDak will see the connection between he and SDSU AD Sell as a key to the creation of a new Great Northern league, but in reality is is simply a smart move, using the relationship to create an alliance both leagues need that will help fill scheduling gaps which all mid- and low-mid majors face.

NAU has done similar with Big West schools in basketball. NAU is still in the Big Sky.

As stated, the low-mid majors need all the home games they can swing. And it is tough to get people to come to Flagstaff, Bozeman or Brookings in the early winter.
11-28-2017 01:41 PM
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shizzle787 Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
I firmly believe that the Montana and Idaho twins will join the Summit in the near future, with W Illinois and Fort Wayne moving into more geographically compatible conferences. However, the Summit FBS wet dream is a pipe dream. Nobody wants to see that.
11-28-2017 02:17 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 09:46 AM)NoDak Wrote:  A Montana-Dakota centric conference has been an institutional goal of all those schools Presidents for two generations, especially UND and NDSU.

If it was a generations-long institutional goal, why did the Dakota schools sit around in Division II for so long?

Quote: Idaho was not in favor of it back then, but this will be a path back to FBS so all the sudden they are totally aboard.

1. A Dakota-Montana-Idaho flagships-and-landgrants conference makes sense, but it is not a path back to FBS.
2. If Idaho was so enamored of FBS, they'd have STAYED FBS.

Quote:EWU is near a key city for the Montana's and Idaho and provide a travel partner for Idaho so they get included.

OK, getting Spokane in the mix would seem a reasonable thing to do.

Denver and Omaha are pulled in because they want to associate with UND hockey, as that is the financial basis for their athletic programs.

This is an alignment that has been in the works for years, since the WAC dropped football.

Nothing has "been in the works for years", or North Dakota wouldn't be leaving a conference they just joined 5 years ago.

Now that I think about it, if FBS made any kind of sense for North Dakota, they would have upgraded to the WAC and either saved the FBS WAC or, like UTSA and Texas STate, used the WAC to upgrade.
11-28-2017 02:41 PM
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RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 02:41 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 09:46 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Idaho was not in favor of it back then, but this will be a path back to FBS so all the sudden they are totally aboard.

1. A Dakota-Montana-Idaho flagships-and-landgrants conference makes sense, but it is not a path back to FBS.
2. If Idaho was so enamored of FBS, they'd have STAYED FBS.

If there's a decades-long goal to unite all these schools as an FBS conference, I can confirm that Idaho's current leadership was not clued into it.
11-28-2017 02:58 PM
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