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The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #21
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-28-2017 09:00 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(11-28-2017 12:51 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 11:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  http://www.kvrr.com/2017/11/27/und-ndsu-...ge-series/

NDSU, SDSU, Omaha, and future Summit member UND have scheduled a challenge series against Montana, Montana St, Idaho and EWU for 2018-19 in men's basketball. This will be the year that the those Big Sky teams will be waiting to jump to the Summit as the Big Sky requires two seasons for no exit fees. By 2019-20, all those teams plus USD and Denver will be in the same conference. Posters are cordially invited to a board meltdown now, as so many have insisted that group would never be a conference together and no compelling reasons that they would be interested in each other, as it was just pushed by one poster who supposedly had no idea what he was proposing. The series is for four years, but it won't take long for those to be conference games, as it would be natural for all of them to join together under one conference banner.

IPFW to the Horizon, ORU to the WAC and W Illinois to the OVC is what will happen to set off the newest Summit members. The Dakota's, Montana's, Idaho, EWU, Omaha, and Denver are just transitioning to a conference schedule with those schools.

What's the incentive for ORU to leave a fairly stable, relatively compact geographically Summit League for a WAC that has trouble keeping above the NCAA minimum of 7 members for auto bids? The WAC is even more spread out than the AAC, without the luxury of TV exposure, access to major airports with easy direct flights, or revenue from TV or NCAA credits.

Yeah no major airports in WAC citiies, Chicago, Kansas City, Phoenix, and Seattle. Good callout.

Fair point. I was wrong about the airports. Still, why would Oral Roberts or any school leave its current conference to go to the WAC, whose future existence is in doubt more than any other of the 32 D1 leagues? (Only the A-Sun is so close to dropping to the NCAA minimum of 7 members for auto bids.) Bakersfield is leaving. Chicago State sports may close down. UMKC may drop to DII or, at best, go back to Oral Roberts' Summit League. I can see Fort Wayne and Western Illinois trying to get into the Horizon and OVC, respectively, but not ORU to the WAC.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017 04:45 PM by Michael in Raleigh.)
11-28-2017 04:43 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
The 6 Dakota/Montana schools plus EWU should've gone FBS five years ago when they had the chance. I would have loved to see a G6.

I think that ship has sailed though
11-28-2017 04:45 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #23
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
I agree that this deal is more about getting home OOC games than some grand Monkota Conference near term realignment...

...but rather than pile on NoDak, I'll throw him a bone, albeit a small one. The Monkota Conference formation is possible, but it would only happen in the fallout of the next (final?) P4 realignment/TV deal saga in which there is massive regionalization among the bottom tier G5/top tier FCS as the new economics forces a lot of departments throughout D1 NCAA to take a long hard look at their situation. Then and only then does this new conference happen.
11-28-2017 11:34 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #24
The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
Just noticed Nodak’s date is 4 20. That is a fitting date.


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11-29-2017 12:33 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #25
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
I'm just happy people are talking about this as a plausible idea, because I'm in favor of it even as an FCS conference. Putting athletics aside, it makes more academic and marketing sense for us to affiliate with those flagships and Denver than with most of the Big Sky.

The problem is, it seems like there's a lot more in it for us than there is for the Dakotas. The Big Sky is a bloated, far-flung mess and a godawful basketball conference, so no huge loss there for us or the Montanas. But the Dakotas currently rule the roost in the Summit and would have to leave the MVFC to join up with us, which seems like a decent-sized sacrifice to make.

Plus, Montanans are cowards. Proven fact.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2017 02:19 AM by LatahCounty.)
11-29-2017 01:41 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 01:41 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  I'm just happy people are talking about this as a plausible idea, because I'm in favor of it even as an FCS conference. Putting athletics aside, it makes more academic and marketing sense for us to affiliate with those flagships and Denver than with most of the Big Sky.

The problem is, it seems like there's a lot more in it for us than there is for the Dakotas. The Big Sky is a bloated, far-flung mess and a godawful basketball conference, so no huge loss there for us or the Montanas. But the Dakotas currently rule the roost in the Summit and would have to leave the MVFC to join up with us, which seems like a decent-sized sacrifice to make.

Plus, Montanans are cowards. Proven fact.

The MVC does not want Dakota schools or research focused schools. No single Dakota school ever gets even an MVC campus visit when the MVC is expanding. Omaha got one but the Dakota's are not wanted because the MVC is so afraid of the cold and doesn't want ambitious schools. Think that has finally resonated with NDSU and SDSU- the only way they can move up in the conference landscape is to look west.

Idaho has finally recognized that California schools aren't committed to their welfare (I. e. Long Beach St, Fullerton St, UCDavis etc) and NMSU is just too far so they need to make a permanent alliance with the Montana's. EWU will tag along with Idaho and the Montana's because those schools are such bread and butter games for them and EWU provides a needed travel partner for Moscow.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2017 12:46 PM by NoDak.)
11-29-2017 12:32 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
So when UND joined the MVFC ( 2020 starting date): an MVFC / Big Sky challenge was announced

When UND joined the Summit ( starting next year): a Summit / Big Sky crossover series is announced, but only for select schools

There is a pattern here but most don't seem to have vision.

Was late in recognizing this, but when Denver left the WAC for the Summit, the reason given was GCU's profit status. That is all a bunch of hooey as Denver doesnt want to expose their strategic intent. Denver was working toward a conference filled with DI hockey schools and flagship schools. Denver tried to get into the Big Sky but was rebuffed by the NAu's, Sac States, and Idaho States of the world which don't want non fb schools that can spend money.

UND and Denver have experience in shaping new conferences, as they we were the primary drivers for the NCHC hockey conference. As the holders of the last two national hockey championships and both eight times champions, the rivalry is fierce. Both schools want the rivalry to carry over to all sports and be in a conference with like schools.

Getting the Summit to fits the wants and needs of Denver and UND is a long term project, but am confident that goal will be achieved. This is a long term project, not some whim of an administrator.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2017 07:07 PM by NoDak.)
11-29-2017 12:45 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #28
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
To compare the Summit / Big Sky mbb crossover to P5 mbb crossovers is just plain illogic.

P5 crossovers are coordinated from league HQ and have enormous TV financial incentives. The Summit /Sky crossover was coordinated by Ad's and is not blessed by the conference HQ.

The announcement was like a lightning strike that ipfW, W Illinois, ORU are no longer welcome in the Summit and they need to find other conferences. The inclusion of Omaha rather than USD is a sign that Omaha has moved all in on the Great Northern Conference. Denver and South Dakota will be part of it too.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2017 01:07 PM by NoDak.)
11-29-2017 12:58 PM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #29
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
The Summit football conference
UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
WIU
Add
UM
MSU
UI
EWU
Cal- Poly
UC- Davis

Pretty much every school has lower level G5 support. Which should increase if grouped together.

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11-29-2017 06:31 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #30
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 06:31 PM)MJG Wrote:  The Summit football conference
UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
WIU
Add
UM
MSU
UI
EWU
Cal- Poly
UC- Davis

Pretty much every school has lower level G5 support. Which should increase if grouped together.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

WIU isn't a school with the financial status to fundraise for FBS.

Cal Poly, UCDavis, and Sac St would prefer a southwest WAC with NMSU, UTRGV, Sam Houston St, Lamar and SF Austin.

Idaho parted ways with the WAC and NMSU because a NW regional group was more to their interests.
11-29-2017 07:06 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 07:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 06:31 PM)MJG Wrote:  The Summit football conference
UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
WIU
Add
UM
MSU
UI
EWU
Cal- Poly
UC- Davis

Pretty much every school has lower level G5 support. Which should increase if grouped together.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

WIU isn't a school with the financial status to fundraise for FBS.

Cal Poly, UCDavis, and Sac St would prefer a southwest WAC with NMSU, UTRGV, Sam Houston St, Lamar and SF Austin.

Idaho parted ways with the WAC and NMSU because a NW regional group was more to their interests.

Hey @SDHornet - you're excited for trips to Edinburgh, Beaumont, Nachitoches and Huntsville, right?
11-29-2017 07:10 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #32
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 07:10 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 07:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 06:31 PM)MJG Wrote:  The Summit football conference
UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
WIU
Add
UM
MSU
UI
EWU
Cal- Poly
UC- Davis

Pretty much every school has lower level G5 support. Which should increase if grouped together.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

WIU isn't a school with the financial status to fundraise for FBS.

Cal Poly, UCDavis, and Sac St would prefer a southwest WAC with NMSU, UTRGV, Sam Houston St, Lamar and SF Austin.

Idaho parted ways with the WAC and NMSU because a NW regional group was more to their interests.

Hey @SDHornet - you're excited for trips to Edinburgh, Beaumont, Nachitoches and Huntsville, right?

He'd have to sky dive into Flagstaff, so at least he avoids that danger.
11-29-2017 07:26 PM
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Post: #33
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 07:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  WIU isn't a school with the financial status to fundraise for FBS.

That's fine, FBS isn't on the table.

Quote:Cal Poly, UCDavis, and Sac St would prefer a southwest WAC with NMSU, UTRGV, Sam Houston St, Lamar and SF Austin.

That's only true if it's an FBS WAC. (It's not.) But if the Great Northern Conference gets going, the California schools might be interested--it's a nicer "neighborhood" than the directional "trailer park" the Big Sky would be left with--Northern Arizona, Southern Utah, Weber STate, Northern Colorado, Idaho State, Portland State, plus the California schools.

Without the California schools, it would be 7 flagships-and-landgrants, ritzy private Denver, UN-Omaha, maybe UMKC, plus Oral Roberts, Fort Wayne and Western Illinois--and Eastern Washington, apparently. (You can't really kick existing schools out, sorry.) That's already 14, with 9 for football. MAybe you have room for the Big West football schools as affiliates, if they want to hobnob with flagships instead of directionals.

EDIT: I forgot things. Like IUPU-Fort Wayne existing, EWU being a possible member of the Great Northern league, and Western Illinois having football.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2017 09:14 PM by johnbragg.)
11-29-2017 08:24 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #34
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
Once again putting athletics aside, I'd think Idaho people would be happy to deepen ties with UC Davis and Cal Poly given the missions of those schools. It would also make a ton of sense for us on the athletic side, since we recruit California heavily and Idaho, Montana and the Dakotas are not exactly fertile territory for D1 football players.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2017 08:58 PM by LatahCounty.)
11-29-2017 08:58 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #35
The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
Less than 5 months till 4 20 18.


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11-29-2017 09:30 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #36
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 08:24 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  EDIT: I forgot things. Like IUPU-Fort Wayne existing, EWU being a possible member of the Great Northern league, and Western Illinois having football.

NoDak just sort of handwaves all these schools out of the Summit, but in the real world, this is very difficult to pull off. They're not actually going to all have a neat and tidy fit elsewhere, so you end up with serious roadblocks.

Really the best thing for the hypothetical Great North might be to wait until the WAC is in its final death throes, pay whichever poor school is left there holding the bag to go away, move into that conference and take the autobid.
11-29-2017 09:41 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #37
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 07:10 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 07:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 06:31 PM)MJG Wrote:  The Summit football conference
UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
WIU
Add
UM
MSU
UI
EWU
Cal- Poly
UC- Davis

Pretty much every school has lower level G5 support. Which should increase if grouped together.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

WIU isn't a school with the financial status to fundraise for FBS.

Cal Poly, UCDavis, and Sac St would prefer a southwest WAC with NMSU, UTRGV, Sam Houston St, Lamar and SF Austin.

Idaho parted ways with the WAC and NMSU because a NW regional group was more to their interests.

Hey @SDHornet - you're excited for trips to Edinburgh, Beaumont, Nachitoches and Huntsville, right?

Wel according to Nodak, it's what we "prefer". 03-lmfao
11-29-2017 09:43 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #38
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 07:26 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 07:10 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 07:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 06:31 PM)MJG Wrote:  The Summit football conference
UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
WIU
Add
UM
MSU
UI
EWU
Cal- Poly
UC- Davis

Pretty much every school has lower level G5 support. Which should increase if grouped together.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

WIU isn't a school with the financial status to fundraise for FBS.

Cal Poly, UCDavis, and Sac St would prefer a southwest WAC with NMSU, UTRGV, Sam Houston St, Lamar and SF Austin.

Idaho parted ways with the WAC and NMSU because a NW regional group was more to their interests.

Hey @SDHornet - you're excited for trips to Edinburgh, Beaumont, Nachitoches and Huntsville, right?

He'd have to sky dive into Flagstaff, so at least he avoids that danger.

Still cheaper than that eastern grouping. Ouch.
11-29-2017 09:44 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #39
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
It's about the same distance to Cleveland from Fargo as it is to Missoula.
11-29-2017 10:16 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #40
RE: The Big Sky and Summit schedule a crossover challenge series with select schools
(11-29-2017 09:41 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 08:24 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  EDIT: I forgot things. Like IUPU-Fort Wayne existing, EWU being a possible member of the Great Northern league, and Western Illinois having football.

NoDak just sort of handwaves all these schools out of the Summit, but in the real world, this is very difficult to pull off. They're not actually going to all have a neat and tidy fit elsewhere, so you end up with serious roadblocks.

Really the best thing for the hypothetical Great North might be to wait until the WAC is in its final death throes, pay whichever poor school is left there holding the bag to go away, move into that conference and take the autobid.

All the original Summit schools have recognized that the Summit isnt for them as the geography has changed and shifted west and north. IPFw wants in The Horizon badly and the Horizon has stated they may be open to 14 schtools. W Ill is not the best match for the OVC, bit neither is the Summi. ORU should be salivating for the WAC.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2017 07:31 AM by NoDak.)
11-29-2017 10:58 PM
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