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Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
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cmett003 Offline
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Post: #1
Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
This is a look at each seasons opponents, their record at the time we played them, score, and that teams final record along with some notes. This is to give a measure of how we are performing against good and bad teams. I have also noted the blowouts (losses by 21+ pts) and close wins (outcome decided by 1 score) that we have suffered since 2014.

2014:
Hampton (0-0) - W 41-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Game was closer than 4 of their FCS losses
NC State (1-0) - L 46-34 Finished (8-5) Note: IMO best game against P5, but still a double digit loss
Eastern Michigan (1-1) - W 17-3 Finished (2-10) Note: Rain and closer than it should have been
Rice (0-2) - W 45-42 Finished (8-5) Note: Good win but not a great win.
MTSU (2-2) - L 41-28 Finished (6-6) Note: Game was 24-7 in the 2nd, to big of a hole.
Marshall (4-0) - L 56-14 Finished (13-1) Note: BLOWOUT #1
UTEP (2-3) - L 42-35 Finished (7-6) Note: Lost against a C-USA team with losing record at the time
WKU (4-3) - L 61-55 Finished (8-5) Note: No defense shootout. Loss
Vanderbilt (2-6) - L 42-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit loss to bottom P5 team
FIU (3-7) - W 38-35 Finished (4-8) Note: Close home win to a team that lost to an FCS team
La Tech (7-3) - W 30-27 Finished (9-5) Note: Close win to a good team that beat P5 in bowl game
FAU (3-8) - W 31-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Close win to a bad FAU team on road

Finished the year 6-6 with 1 double digit FBS wins, 4 close wins, 1 blowout loss and 2 double digit losses to P5 teams.

2015:
Eastern Michigan (0-0) - W 38-34 Finished (1-11) Note: Close win against a bad team.
Norfolk St (0-1) - W 24-10 Finished (4-7) Note: Underwhelming win against a bad NSU team
NC State (2-0) - L 38-14 Finished (7-6) Note: BLOWOUT #1 at home to an average ACC team
App St (1-1) - L 49-0 Finished (11-2) Note: BLOWOUT #2 at home to a good App St team
Marshall (3-1) - L 27-7 Finished (10-3) Note: Almost a blowout
Charlotte (2-3) - W 37-34 Finished (2-10) Note: Comeback win at home against a bad Charlotte team
FIU (3-4) - L 41-12 Finished (5-7) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to FIU who finished with losing record
WKU (4-3) - L 55-30 Finished (12-2) Note: BLOWOUT #4 to a good WKU team
UTSA (1-7) - W 36-31 Finished (3-9) Note: Close road win against a bad UTSA team
UTEP (4-5) - W 31-21 Finished (5-7) Note: 10 pt home win to a below avg UTEP team
Southern Miss (7-3) - L 56-31 Finished (9-5) Note: BLOWOUT #5 to a good USM team
FAU (2-9) - L 31-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Close home loss to a bad FAU team

Finished the year 5-7 with 5 blowout losses and only 1 double digit win against an FBS team. 3 close wins

2016:
Hampton (0-0) - W 54-21 Finished (5-6) Note: Win over bad FCS Hampton team
App St (0-1) - L 31-7 Finished (10-3) Note: BLOWOUT #1 to a good App St team
NC State (1-1) - L 49-22 Finished (7-6) Note: BLOWOUT #2 at home to an average ACC team
UTSA (1-2) - W 33-19 Finished (6-7) Note: Double digit FBS win against avg UTSA team
Charlotte (1-3) - W 52-17 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad Charlotte team
UMass (1-4) - W 36-16 Finished (2-10) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad UMAss team
WKU (4-3) - L 59-24 Finished (11-3) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to a good WKU team
UTEP (2-5) - W 31-21 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit win against a bad UTEP team
Marshall (2-6) - W 38-14 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit win against a bad Marshall team
Southern Miss (5-4) - W 51-35 Finished (7-6) Note: Double digit win against a avg USM team
FAU (3-8) - W 42-24 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit win against a bad FAU team
FIU (4-7) - W 42-28 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit win against a bad FIU team
Eastern Michigan (7-5) - W 24-20 Finished (7-6) Note: Close win against a avg EMU team.

Finished the year 10-3 with 8 double digit wins against avg or bad FBS teams, 3 blowout losses and 1 close win in the bowl game against Eastern Michigan.

2017:
Albany (0-0) - W 31-17 Finished (4-7) Note: Win over bad FCS Albany team
UMass (0-2) - W 17-7 Currently (4-7) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad/avg UMAss team
UNC (0-2) - L 53-23 Finished (3-9) Note: BLOWOUT #1 at home to a bad ACC team
VT (3-0) - L 38-0 Currently (9-3) Note: BLOWOUT #2 to a good ACC team
FAU (2-3) - L 58-28 Currently (9-3) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to a good FAU team
Marshall (4-1) - L 35-3 Currently (7-5) Note: BLOWOUT #4 to a avg FAU team
WKU (4-2) - L 35-31 Currently (6-6) Note: Blown 4th qtr lead to an avg WKU team
NT (4-3) - L 45-38 Currently (9-3) Note: Blown 4th qtr lead to a good NT team
Charlotte (1-6) - W 6-0 Finished (1-11) Note: Close FBS win against bad Charlotte team
FIU (6-2) - W 37-30 Currently (7-4) Note: Close FBS win against avg FIU team
Rice (1-9) - W 45-42 Finished (1-11) Note: Close FBS win against bad Rice team
MTSU (5-6) - L 41-10 Finished (6-6) Note: BLOWOUT #5 to a avg MTSU team

Finished the year 5-7 with 5 blowout losses and only 1 double digit win against an FBS team. 3 close wins.

Summary 2014-2017 (not counting FCS wins)
14 Blowout losses
11 double digit FBS wins (8 coming in 2016 to mostly avg or bad teams)
10 close wins
3-14 against all teams that finished with winning records
1 double digit win against a team that finished with a winning record (USM, 2016)

Take this info as you will, but when you really look at the numbers. Bobby wilder and co are not getting it done.
11-26-2017 08:52 PM
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CalODUFan Online
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Post: #2
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
(11-26-2017 08:52 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  This is a look at each seasons opponents, their record at the time we played them, score, and that teams final record along with some notes. This is to give a measure of how we are performing against good and bad teams. I have also noted the blowouts (losses by 21+ pts) and close wins (outcome decided by 1 score) that we have suffered since 2014.

2014:
Hampton (0-0) - W 41-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Game was closer than 4 of their FCS losses
NC State (1-0) - L 46-34 Finished (8-5) Note: IMO best game against P5, but still a double digit loss
Eastern Michigan (1-1) - W 17-3 Finished (2-10) Note: Rain and closer than it should have been
Rice (0-2) - W 45-42 Finished (8-5) Note: Good win but not a great win.
MTSU (2-2) - L 41-28 Finished (6-6) Note: Game was 24-7 in the 2nd, to big of a hole.
Marshall (4-0) - L 56-14 Finished (13-1) Note: BLOWOUT #1
UTEP (2-3) - L 42-35 Finished (7-6) Note: Lost against a C-USA team with losing record at the time
WKU (4-3) - L 61-55 Finished (8-5) Note: No defense shootout. Loss
Vanderbilt (2-6) - L 42-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit loss to bottom P5 team
FIU (3-7) - W 38-35 Finished (4-8) Note: Close home win to a team that lost to an FCS team
La Tech (7-3) - W 30-27 Finished (9-5) Note: Close win to a good team that beat P5 in bowl game
FAU (3-8) - W 31-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Close win to a bad FAU team on road

Finished the year 6-6 with 1 double digit FBS wins, 4 close wins, 1 blowout loss and 2 double digit losses to P5 teams.

2015:
Eastern Michigan (0-0) - W 38-34 Finished (1-11) Note: Close win against a bad team.
Norfolk St (0-1) - W 24-10 Finished (4-7) Note: Underwhelming win against a bad NSU team
NC State (2-0) - L 38-14 Finished (7-6) Note: BLOWOUT #1 at home to an average ACC team
App St (1-1) - L 49-0 Finished (11-2) Note: BLOWOUT #2 at home to a good App St team
Marshall (3-1) - L 27-7 Finished (10-3) Note: Almost a blowout
Charlotte (2-3) - W 37-34 Finished (2-10) Note: Comeback win at home against a bad Charlotte team
FIU (3-4) - L 41-12 Finished (5-7) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to FIU who finished with losing record
WKU (4-3) - L 55-30 Finished (12-2) Note: BLOWOUT #4 to a good WKU team
UTSA (1-7) - W 36-31 Finished (3-9) Note: Close road win against a bad UTSA team
UTEP (4-5) - W 31-21 Finished (5-7) Note: 10 pt home win to a below avg UTEP team
Southern Miss (7-3) - L 56-31 Finished (9-5) Note: BLOWOUT #5 to a good USM team
FAU (2-9) - L 31-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Close home loss to a bad FAU team

Finished the year 5-7 with 5 blowout losses and only 1 double digit win against an FBS team. 3 close wins

2016:
Hampton (0-0) - W 54-21 Finished (5-6) Note: Win over bad FCS Hampton team
App St (0-1) - L 31-7 Finished (10-3) Note: BLOWOUT #1 to a good App St team
NC State (1-1) - L 49-22 Finished (7-6) Note: BLOWOUT #2 at home to an average ACC team
UTSA (1-2) - W 33-19 Finished (6-7) Note: Double digit FBS win against avg UTSA team
Charlotte (1-3) - W 52-17 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad Charlotte team
UMass (1-4) - W 36-16 Finished (2-10) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad UMAss team
WKU (4-3) - L 59-24 Finished (11-3) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to a good WKU team
UTEP (2-5) - W 31-21 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit win against a bad UTEP team
Marshall (2-6) - W 38-14 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit win against a bad Marshall team
Southern Miss (5-4) - W 51-35 Finished (7-6) Note: Double digit win against a avg USM team
FAU (3-8) - W 42-24 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit win against a bad FAU team
FIU (4-7) - W 42-28 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit win against a bad FIU team
Eastern Michigan (7-5) - W 24-20 Finished (7-6) Note: Close win against a avg EMU team.

Finished the year 10-3 with 8 double digit wins against avg or bad FBS teams, 3 blowout losses and 1 close win in the bowl game against Eastern Michigan.

2017:
Albany (0-0) - W 31-17 Finished (4-7) Note: Win over bad FCS Albany team
UMass (0-2) - W 17-7 Currently (4-7) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad/avg UMAss team
UNC (0-2) - L 53-23 Finished (3-9) Note: BLOWOUT #1 at home to a bad ACC team
VT (3-0) - L 38-0 Currently (9-3) Note: BLOWOUT #2 to a good ACC team
FAU (2-3) - L 58-28 Currently (9-3) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to a good FAU team
Marshall (4-1) - L 35-3 Currently (7-5) Note: BLOWOUT #4 to a avg FAU team
WKU (4-2) - L 35-31 Currently (6-6) Note: Blown 4th qtr lead to an avg WKU team
NT (4-3) - L 45-38 Currently (9-3) Note: Blown 4th qtr lead to a good NT team
Charlotte (1-6) - W 6-0 Finished (1-11) Note: Close FBS win against bad Charlotte team
FIU (6-2) - W 37-30 Currently (7-4) Note: Close FBS win against avg FIU team
Rice (1-9) - W 45-42 Finished (1-11) Note: Close FBS win against bad Rice team
MTSU (5-6) - L 41-10 Finished (6-6) Note: BLOWOUT #5 to a avg MTSU team

Finished the year 5-7 with 5 blowout losses and only 1 double digit win against an FBS team. 3 close wins.

Summary 2014-2017 (not counting FCS wins)
14 Blowout losses
11 double digit FBS wins (8 coming in 2016 to mostly avg or bad teams)
10 close wins
3-14 against all teams that finished with winning records
1 double digit win against a team that finished with a winning record (USM, 2016)

Take this info as you will, but when you really look at the numbers. Bobby wilder and co are not getting it done.

Good teams with good FBS coordinators out-scheme us and make better adjustments. That is why we lose to good teams by so many points. Our game plans and schemes are predictable and not very creative.
11-26-2017 09:05 PM
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Old Blue Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
3-14 against all teams that finished with winning records.
All you really need to know. Both recruiting and coaching are sub par.
11-26-2017 10:26 PM
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jasdf Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
Feels like we thought slapping the fbs designation on our football was going to magically make us better. What have we really done to improve since moving to cusa
11-26-2017 10:33 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #5
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
(11-26-2017 08:52 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  This is a look at each seasons opponents, their record at the time we played them, score, and that teams final record along with some notes. This is to give a measure of how we are performing against good and bad teams. I have also noted the blowouts (losses by 21+ pts) and close wins (outcome decided by 1 score) that we have suffered since 2014.

2014:
Hampton (0-0) - W 41-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Game was closer than 4 of their FCS losses
NC State (1-0) - L 46-34 Finished (8-5) Note: IMO best game against P5, but still a double digit loss
Eastern Michigan (1-1) - W 17-3 Finished (2-10) Note: Rain and closer than it should have been
Rice (0-2) - W 45-42 Finished (8-5) Note: Good win but not a great win.
MTSU (2-2) - L 41-28 Finished (6-6) Note: Game was 24-7 in the 2nd, to big of a hole.
Marshall (4-0) - L 56-14 Finished (13-1) Note: BLOWOUT #1
UTEP (2-3) - L 42-35 Finished (7-6) Note: Lost against a C-USA team with losing record at the time
WKU (4-3) - L 61-55 Finished (8-5) Note: No defense shootout. Loss
Vanderbilt (2-6) - L 42-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit loss to bottom P5 team
FIU (3-7) - W 38-35 Finished (4-8) Note: Close home win to a team that lost to an FCS team
La Tech (7-3) - W 30-27 Finished (9-5) Note: Close win to a good team that beat P5 in bowl game
FAU (3-8) - W 31-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Close win to a bad FAU team on road

Finished the year 6-6 with 1 double digit FBS wins, 4 close wins, 1 blowout loss and 2 double digit losses to P5 teams.

2015:
Eastern Michigan (0-0) - W 38-34 Finished (1-11) Note: Close win against a bad team.
Norfolk St (0-1) - W 24-10 Finished (4-7) Note: Underwhelming win against a bad NSU team
NC State (2-0) - L 38-14 Finished (7-6) Note: BLOWOUT #1 at home to an average ACC team
App St (1-1) - L 49-0 Finished (11-2) Note: BLOWOUT #2 at home to a good App St team
Marshall (3-1) - L 27-7 Finished (10-3) Note: Almost a blowout
Charlotte (2-3) - W 37-34 Finished (2-10) Note: Comeback win at home against a bad Charlotte team
FIU (3-4) - L 41-12 Finished (5-7) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to FIU who finished with losing record
WKU (4-3) - L 55-30 Finished (12-2) Note: BLOWOUT #4 to a good WKU team
UTSA (1-7) - W 36-31 Finished (3-9) Note: Close road win against a bad UTSA team
UTEP (4-5) - W 31-21 Finished (5-7) Note: 10 pt home win to a below avg UTEP team
Southern Miss (7-3) - L 56-31 Finished (9-5) Note: BLOWOUT #5 to a good USM team
FAU (2-9) - L 31-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Close home loss to a bad FAU team

Finished the year 5-7 with 5 blowout losses and only 1 double digit win against an FBS team. 3 close wins

2016:
Hampton (0-0) - W 54-21 Finished (5-6) Note: Win over bad FCS Hampton team
App St (0-1) - L 31-7 Finished (10-3) Note: BLOWOUT #1 to a good App St team
NC State (1-1) - L 49-22 Finished (7-6) Note: BLOWOUT #2 at home to an average ACC team
UTSA (1-2) - W 33-19 Finished (6-7) Note: Double digit FBS win against avg UTSA team
Charlotte (1-3) - W 52-17 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad Charlotte team
UMass (1-4) - W 36-16 Finished (2-10) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad UMAss team
WKU (4-3) - L 59-24 Finished (11-3) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to a good WKU team
UTEP (2-5) - W 31-21 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit win against a bad UTEP team
Marshall (2-6) - W 38-14 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit win against a bad Marshall team
Southern Miss (5-4) - W 51-35 Finished (7-6) Note: Double digit win against a avg USM team
FAU (3-8) - W 42-24 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit win against a bad FAU team
FIU (4-7) - W 42-28 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit win against a bad FIU team
Eastern Michigan (7-5) - W 24-20 Finished (7-6) Note: Close win against a avg EMU team.

Finished the year 10-3 with 8 double digit wins against avg or bad FBS teams, 3 blowout losses and 1 close win in the bowl game against Eastern Michigan.

2017:
Albany (0-0) - W 31-17 Finished (4-7) Note: Win over bad FCS Albany team
UMass (0-2) - W 17-7 Currently (4-7) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad/avg UMAss team
UNC (0-2) - L 53-23 Finished (3-9) Note: BLOWOUT #1 at home to a bad ACC team
VT (3-0) - L 38-0 Currently (9-3) Note: BLOWOUT #2 to a good ACC team
FAU (2-3) - L 58-28 Currently (9-3) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to a good FAU team
Marshall (4-1) - L 35-3 Currently (7-5) Note: BLOWOUT #4 to a avg FAU team
WKU (4-2) - L 35-31 Currently (6-6) Note: Blown 4th qtr lead to an avg WKU team
NT (4-3) - L 45-38 Currently (9-3) Note: Blown 4th qtr lead to a good NT team
Charlotte (1-6) - W 6-0 Finished (1-11) Note: Close FBS win against bad Charlotte team
FIU (6-2) - W 37-30 Currently (7-4) Note: Close FBS win against avg FIU team
Rice (1-9) - W 45-42 Finished (1-11) Note: Close FBS win against bad Rice team
MTSU (5-6) - L 41-10 Finished (6-6) Note: BLOWOUT #5 to a avg MTSU team

Finished the year 5-7 with 5 blowout losses and only 1 double digit win against an FBS team. 3 close wins.

Summary 2014-2017 (not counting FCS wins)
14 Blowout losses
11 double digit FBS wins (8 coming in 2016 to mostly avg or bad teams)
10 close wins
3-14 against all teams that finished with winning records
1 double digit win against a team that finished with a winning record (USM, 2016)

Take this info as you will, but when you really look at the numbers. Bobby wilder and co are not getting it done.

TRIGGER WARNING FOR AVALANCHE OF WORDS

What, in your mind, is "it"? Where should ODU be right now, relative to the rest of the conference? I suspect that your expectations aren't particularly realistic just looking at how you rate ODU's inaugural CUSA season in 2014.

First, you dismiss the win at Rice as "good but not great" even though a) Rice won eight games and a bowl that season, b) it was Rice's only home defeat and c) it was ODU's FIRST CUSA GAME EVER. All things considered, I'd say that was a damn fine win. Then you categorize a one-possession loss to UTEP as simply "lost against a C-USA team with a losing record at the time" and conveniently omit that a) they won seven games and went to a bowl and b) the game was 2,000 miles from home, which I dunno, maybe that's an added challenge for a program in, again, its first season at this level.

It's a recurring theme with you: With the exception of the La. Tech win from 2014, all wins are defined down or explained away as being against unworthy competition or are otherwise unimpressive. The losses, of course, are much more telling of the impending doom about to descend on the program like a polar vortex of inescapable mediocrity.

But hell's bells, wins still count as wins. Nobody liked watching ODU slog through a 6-0 win against Charlotte this season, or struggle to put away Hampton or Norfolk State in years past. But the Mayor of College Football doesn't come down from his royal tailgate to deduct victories for not meeting some standard of goodness. You'd think this was Bill Cosby's Temple team, losing to Hofstra 900-0 (in their street clothes).

You're not going to want to hear this, but what the hell: Of the 12 teams to play every season in CUSA since ODU joined in 2014, only four have had at least five wins each time — Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Louisiana Tech and ODU. Everyone else has had at least one (in some cases, more than one) season that was worse (in some cases, much worse). ODU, for whatever you might think of their winning, has never lost one they had no business losing. They often get their asses handed to them in those losses, but that's something to work on.

The only seasons in which the Monarchs weren't playing for something at the end of the schedule were the first two years and the FBS transition years — and that was because they weren't eligible for the playoffs or bowls.

Then look at ODU's contemporaries in terms of program age: In UTSA's four CUSA seasons, this is their best one at 6-5, pending a bowl game. They were 6-7 last season and won 3 and 4 games the other two seasons. If they lose that bowl game, they'll have gone the last four seasons without a winning record in any of them. And even factoring in the two years they spent in FBS before ODU moved up, their best season was 8-4 — with two wins against D2 schools and two against FCS schools. Or Charlotte: Their best FBS record is 4-8. Their best record period is 5-6.

These are the schools, not Marshall, not Louisiana Tech, not Western Kentucky or ****ing Middle Tenne-****ing-see, that ODU should be compared to given their stage of development. Seems that by those standards, they're doing good.

But of course, none of those successes (well, except for the La. Tech win and maaaaaaaybe the Rice one even though it wasn't THAT good) mean squat because in your eyes, the new FBS program should already be the conference flagship. If that's your stance, you will never ever be satisfied and you'll run the risk of being as out of touch as those Tennessee fans scaring off coaches while waiting for Jon Gruden to come down from the clouds to **** out the next Peyton Manning.

Look: I hate blowing sunshine up anuses as much as anyone else. My screen name's Cyniclone, no FluffyKittensAndCottonCandyTempest. I worked in a profession where the credo is "if you mother says she loves you, get a second source." I don't think it's wrong to step back after a disappointing season and wonder where to go from here. I don't think it untoward to think about changes in the coaching staff (I think talk of getting rid of Wilder is short-sighted and foolish, but I understand the frustration).
But even acknowledging that, it's important to remember that as a whole the program is doing better than anyone in its age group — better than UTSA, Charlotte, South Alabama or Georgia State. Hell, UMass won a national title once and they have an 0-3 record against ODU. The only recent moveup that is definitely doing better is Appalachian State, and they had a pretty sizable head start on their program.

So I ask: What is "it"? Where should a program that didn't field a team 10 years ago be? Should 8-4 be the floor? Should they be the undisputed belle of the CUSA ball? Should they be Boise State By-The-Sea? What would satisfy you, and how long would it satisfy you? And don't cop out with "well, whatever it is, this isn't it" — give me some sense of obtainable, measurable goals. Potter Stewart only takes you but so far.

I dunno. I wish things were better now, but I'll say this: It's cloudy at the surface but from the 50,000-foot view, it's a lot nicer.
11-26-2017 11:36 PM
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odufansam Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
Cyniclone, I think you make some good points. The blowout losses are highly disappointing and far too common. I know we have issues on offense, but those types of losses point to major issues on defense. Frankly our defense isn't good enough to win games or even keep us competitive if the offense doesn't show up. If we want to be competitive on the FBS level, we need a Defensive Coordinator that can take this defense to the next level. Rich Nagy has done good for the defense, but frankly he showed this season that he can't take a veteran defense to the next level.
11-27-2017 09:02 AM
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jasdf Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
Like I said before. We athletically identify as fbs but we are still waiting to have the operation performed. The results and facilities speak for themselves. Enough athletes to go around and all we need is a full allotment of scholarships to compete with the acc according to our dingbat ad. Lmao. Aim high.
11-27-2017 09:07 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
(11-26-2017 11:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 08:52 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  This is a look at each seasons opponents, their record at the time we played them, score, and that teams final record along with some notes. This is to give a measure of how we are performing against good and bad teams. I have also noted the blowouts (losses by 21+ pts) and close wins (outcome decided by 1 score) that we have suffered since 2014.

2014:
Hampton (0-0) - W 41-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Game was closer than 4 of their FCS losses
NC State (1-0) - L 46-34 Finished (8-5) Note: IMO best game against P5, but still a double digit loss
Eastern Michigan (1-1) - W 17-3 Finished (2-10) Note: Rain and closer than it should have been
Rice (0-2) - W 45-42 Finished (8-5) Note: Good win but not a great win.
MTSU (2-2) - L 41-28 Finished (6-6) Note: Game was 24-7 in the 2nd, to big of a hole.
Marshall (4-0) - L 56-14 Finished (13-1) Note: BLOWOUT #1
UTEP (2-3) - L 42-35 Finished (7-6) Note: Lost against a C-USA team with losing record at the time
WKU (4-3) - L 61-55 Finished (8-5) Note: No defense shootout. Loss
Vanderbilt (2-6) - L 42-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit loss to bottom P5 team
FIU (3-7) - W 38-35 Finished (4-8) Note: Close home win to a team that lost to an FCS team
La Tech (7-3) - W 30-27 Finished (9-5) Note: Close win to a good team that beat P5 in bowl game
FAU (3-8) - W 31-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Close win to a bad FAU team on road

Finished the year 6-6 with 1 double digit FBS wins, 4 close wins, 1 blowout loss and 2 double digit losses to P5 teams.

2015:
Eastern Michigan (0-0) - W 38-34 Finished (1-11) Note: Close win against a bad team.
Norfolk St (0-1) - W 24-10 Finished (4-7) Note: Underwhelming win against a bad NSU team
NC State (2-0) - L 38-14 Finished (7-6) Note: BLOWOUT #1 at home to an average ACC team
App St (1-1) - L 49-0 Finished (11-2) Note: BLOWOUT #2 at home to a good App St team
Marshall (3-1) - L 27-7 Finished (10-3) Note: Almost a blowout
Charlotte (2-3) - W 37-34 Finished (2-10) Note: Comeback win at home against a bad Charlotte team
FIU (3-4) - L 41-12 Finished (5-7) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to FIU who finished with losing record
WKU (4-3) - L 55-30 Finished (12-2) Note: BLOWOUT #4 to a good WKU team
UTSA (1-7) - W 36-31 Finished (3-9) Note: Close road win against a bad UTSA team
UTEP (4-5) - W 31-21 Finished (5-7) Note: 10 pt home win to a below avg UTEP team
Southern Miss (7-3) - L 56-31 Finished (9-5) Note: BLOWOUT #5 to a good USM team
FAU (2-9) - L 31-28 Finished (3-9) Note: Close home loss to a bad FAU team

Finished the year 5-7 with 5 blowout losses and only 1 double digit win against an FBS team. 3 close wins

2016:
Hampton (0-0) - W 54-21 Finished (5-6) Note: Win over bad FCS Hampton team
App St (0-1) - L 31-7 Finished (10-3) Note: BLOWOUT #1 to a good App St team
NC State (1-1) - L 49-22 Finished (7-6) Note: BLOWOUT #2 at home to an average ACC team
UTSA (1-2) - W 33-19 Finished (6-7) Note: Double digit FBS win against avg UTSA team
Charlotte (1-3) - W 52-17 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad Charlotte team
UMass (1-4) - W 36-16 Finished (2-10) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad UMAss team
WKU (4-3) - L 59-24 Finished (11-3) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to a good WKU team
UTEP (2-5) - W 31-21 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit win against a bad UTEP team
Marshall (2-6) - W 38-14 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit win against a bad Marshall team
Southern Miss (5-4) - W 51-35 Finished (7-6) Note: Double digit win against a avg USM team
FAU (3-8) - W 42-24 Finished (3-9) Note: Double digit win against a bad FAU team
FIU (4-7) - W 42-28 Finished (4-8) Note: Double digit win against a bad FIU team
Eastern Michigan (7-5) - W 24-20 Finished (7-6) Note: Close win against a avg EMU team.

Finished the year 10-3 with 8 double digit wins against avg or bad FBS teams, 3 blowout losses and 1 close win in the bowl game against Eastern Michigan.

2017:
Albany (0-0) - W 31-17 Finished (4-7) Note: Win over bad FCS Albany team
UMass (0-2) - W 17-7 Currently (4-7) Note: Double digit FBS win against bad/avg UMAss team
UNC (0-2) - L 53-23 Finished (3-9) Note: BLOWOUT #1 at home to a bad ACC team
VT (3-0) - L 38-0 Currently (9-3) Note: BLOWOUT #2 to a good ACC team
FAU (2-3) - L 58-28 Currently (9-3) Note: BLOWOUT #3 to a good FAU team
Marshall (4-1) - L 35-3 Currently (7-5) Note: BLOWOUT #4 to a avg FAU team
WKU (4-2) - L 35-31 Currently (6-6) Note: Blown 4th qtr lead to an avg WKU team
NT (4-3) - L 45-38 Currently (9-3) Note: Blown 4th qtr lead to a good NT team
Charlotte (1-6) - W 6-0 Finished (1-11) Note: Close FBS win against bad Charlotte team
FIU (6-2) - W 37-30 Currently (7-4) Note: Close FBS win against avg FIU team
Rice (1-9) - W 45-42 Finished (1-11) Note: Close FBS win against bad Rice team
MTSU (5-6) - L 41-10 Finished (6-6) Note: BLOWOUT #5 to a avg MTSU team

Finished the year 5-7 with 5 blowout losses and only 1 double digit win against an FBS team. 3 close wins.

Summary 2014-2017 (not counting FCS wins)
14 Blowout losses
11 double digit FBS wins (8 coming in 2016 to mostly avg or bad teams)
10 close wins
3-14 against all teams that finished with winning records
1 double digit win against a team that finished with a winning record (USM, 2016)

Take this info as you will, but when you really look at the numbers. Bobby wilder and co are not getting it done.

TRIGGER WARNING FOR AVALANCHE OF WORDS

What, in your mind, is "it"? Where should ODU be right now, relative to the rest of the conference? I suspect that your expectations aren't particularly realistic just looking at how you rate ODU's inaugural CUSA season in 2014.

First, you dismiss the win at Rice as "good but not great" even though a) Rice won eight games and a bowl that season, b) it was Rice's only home defeat and c) it was ODU's FIRST CUSA GAME EVER. All things considered, I'd say that was a damn fine win. Then you categorize a one-possession loss to UTEP as simply "lost against a C-USA team with a losing record at the time" and conveniently omit that a) they won seven games and went to a bowl and b) the game was 2,000 miles from home, which I dunno, maybe that's an added challenge for a program in, again, its first season at this level.

It's a recurring theme with you: With the exception of the La. Tech win from 2014, all wins are defined down or explained away as being against unworthy competition or are otherwise unimpressive. The losses, of course, are much more telling of the impending doom about to descend on the program like a polar vortex of inescapable mediocrity.

But hell's bells, wins still count as wins. Nobody liked watching ODU slog through a 6-0 win against Charlotte this season, or struggle to put away Hampton or Norfolk State in years past. But the Mayor of College Football doesn't come down from his royal tailgate to deduct victories for not meeting some standard of goodness. You'd think this was Bill Cosby's Temple team, losing to Hofstra 900-0 (in their street clothes).

You're not going to want to hear this, but what the hell: Of the 12 teams to play every season in CUSA since ODU joined in 2014, only four have had at least five wins each time — Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Louisiana Tech and ODU. Everyone else has had at least one (in some cases, more than one) season that was worse (in some cases, much worse). ODU, for whatever you might think of their winning, has never lost one they had no business losing. They often get their asses handed to them in those losses, but that's something to work on.

The only seasons in which the Monarchs weren't playing for something at the end of the schedule were the first two years and the FBS transition years — and that was because they weren't eligible for the playoffs or bowls.

Then look at ODU's contemporaries in terms of program age: In UTSA's four CUSA seasons, this is their best one at 6-5, pending a bowl game. They were 6-7 last season and won 3 and 4 games the other two seasons. If they lose that bowl game, they'll have gone the last four seasons without a winning record in any of them. And even factoring in the two years they spent in FBS before ODU moved up, their best season was 8-4 — with two wins against D2 schools and two against FCS schools. Or Charlotte: Their best FBS record is 4-8. Their best record period is 5-6.

These are the schools, not Marshall, not Louisiana Tech, not Western Kentucky or ****ing Middle Tenne-****ing-see, that ODU should be compared to given their stage of development. Seems that by those standards, they're doing good.

But of course, none of those successes (well, except for the La. Tech win and maaaaaaaybe the Rice one even though it wasn't THAT good) mean squat because in your eyes, the new FBS program should already be the conference flagship. If that's your stance, you will never ever be satisfied and you'll run the risk of being as out of touch as those Tennessee fans scaring off coaches while waiting for Jon Gruden to come down from the clouds to **** out the next Peyton Manning.

Look: I hate blowing sunshine up anuses as much as anyone else. My screen name's Cyniclone, no FluffyKittensAndCottonCandyTempest. I worked in a profession where the credo is "if you mother says she loves you, get a second source." I don't think it's wrong to step back after a disappointing season and wonder where to go from here. I don't think it untoward to think about changes in the coaching staff (I think talk of getting rid of Wilder is short-sighted and foolish, but I understand the frustration).
But even acknowledging that, it's important to remember that as a whole the program is doing better than anyone in its age group — better than UTSA, Charlotte, South Alabama or Georgia State. Hell, UMass won a national title once and they have an 0-3 record against ODU. The only recent moveup that is definitely doing better is Appalachian State, and they had a pretty sizable head start on their program.

So I ask: What is "it"? Where should a program that didn't field a team 10 years ago be? Should 8-4 be the floor? Should they be the undisputed belle of the CUSA ball? Should they be Boise State By-The-Sea? What would satisfy you, and how long would it satisfy you? And don't cop out with "well, whatever it is, this isn't it" — give me some sense of obtainable, measurable goals. Potter Stewart only takes you but so far.

I dunno. I wish things were better now, but I'll say this: It's cloudy at the surface but from the 50,000-foot view, it's a lot nicer.

Welp, you pretty much took care of it.
11-27-2017 11:06 AM
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ODU804 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
I'm not trying to jump on the "our coaching staff sucks" bandwagon but I'd have to say the heat has to have gone up slightly on them after this year. We are moving beyond the just getting started in FBS phase of the move up and will have a ton of 5th year seniors on next years team which were recruited at the FBS level.

They catch a break with the new stadium coming on line in 2019 as there is no chance BW isn't the coach to open that no matter what happens next year. However, if we suffer through another sub par season next year i would say the heat should definitely go up for the 2019 season. The new stadium will sell tickets for itself in 2019 but interest will drop off quickly if we go through a couple more seasons in a row like this. The administration can't afford to spend the money for a new stadium and then have it half full.
11-27-2017 11:24 AM
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Mr.BigBlue Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
I am fine with this coaching staff if they dramatically increase recruiting and start brining in top 5 recruiting class that has more 3 stars than 2 or no stars. We are now seeing the results of 4 years of horrible recruiting classes that were below top 10. To me coaching staff changes can be good but more times than not it makes things worse.
11-27-2017 11:53 AM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
I think they're slowly building recruiting. If you just go by 247 there is a clear divide in quality recruiting from the top 4. From #5 (us) on down there is a clear drop off.

OR 247 just doesn't monitor the rest of the conference.
11-27-2017 11:56 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #12
Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
I haven't been in the camp that says we need to fire everyone, but I think I am coming around on changing the DC, and getting closer on OC, but not ready to pull the trigger yet.

DC - I think we need an aggressive, man first, DC that can take advantage of the type of athletes we have in our back yard. 757 produces great defensive athletes and Tech has made a name out of using their talents to get after their opponents. I don't think any program that recruits heavily in this area should be playing a soft, bend but don't break defense.

OC - This one is harder because, by and large, we have had pretty good offensive numbers aside from this year. We also get destroyed by better teams, and I think that shows a lack of imagination in our offensive game plans. The eye test also says that our offense lacks any complexity.

I wonder if the results we see may be due to the fact that our coaches are good at teaching and developing players, especially QBs, but bad at scheming, creativity and play calling. Maybe that explains why overall our offensive numbers are good because our players are better than most teams, but in big games our offense is awful because our players are worse and our scheme is terrible.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk
11-27-2017 12:15 PM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
That seems logical Monarchblue.

I'm kind of in your camp. Warming up to the idea on the OC. Maybe it's just someone new and the OC is better suited at development of players. But bring in someone that is better at play calling.
11-27-2017 12:47 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
(11-27-2017 12:47 PM)bit_9 Wrote:  That seems logical Monarchblue.

I'm kind of in your camp. Warming up to the idea on the OC. Maybe it's just someone new and the OC is better suited at development of players. But bring in someone that is better at play calling.

I can see a case for Nagy and the defensive backs coach.

In the case of Scott, you put him in a difficult position (depending on how much you believe he contributed to it) and then fire him when he doesn't produce? He was left with no QB, half of his star RB, without his RT, and without his star WR. What are reasonable expectations at that point?

Ignoring the records in FCS, they put up:

2014- 32.7 points per game
2015- 24.2 points per game (improved after a terrible start)
2016- 35.1 points per game
2017- 20.7 points per game

Obviously, the offense was not where we all would like it to be, but our offense has carried the team in its entire existence. I don't agree with firing a coach that has performed pretty much all but 1 year (2015 was on and off) when there are tons of reasons for the offense not performing well this year.

The argument about scheme/play complexity is really ignorant. We probably change the offense more game to game that anyone I can remember seeing in our conference. They end up adding different wrinkles every week (which has to be tough with a freshman QB, this year). Some of the different wrinkles added or expanded on include pistol (MTSU), the bunch tight set, putting various WRs in the backfield, etc.

Playcalling gets blamed for inconsistent play from a true freshman QB. We would be really dumb to get rid of Scott. Nagy, I can't argue with that one.
11-27-2017 01:00 PM
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Old Dominion Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
Two plays really stand out to me. The screen out to the side lin which always results in a 2 yard loss and the run up the middle that is telegraphed. Don't know about anything else, but when Scott keeps calling those two, over and over, something's wrong. Maybe it's play calling, I don't know.
11-27-2017 01:13 PM
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odufansam Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
One thing that everyone on the boards keep forgetting is that ODU pays its coaches towards the bottom half of the conference. If we want better coaches, we are going to have to pay for it. Where does that money come from? We will need to buyout the current coaches, offer better compensation to the new coaches, and still be able to move forward with the stadium. Not going to happen in this current climate of government restrictions.
11-27-2017 01:18 PM
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jasdf Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
Where does the money come from? We know where it comes from. The question is where does it go. Our revenue is certainly not bottom half of cusa, so why do we pay like it is?
11-27-2017 01:33 PM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
(11-27-2017 01:00 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 12:47 PM)bit_9 Wrote:  That seems logical Monarchblue.

I'm kind of in your camp. Warming up to the idea on the OC. Maybe it's just someone new and the OC is better suited at development of players. But bring in someone that is better at play calling.

I can see a case for Nagy and the defensive backs coach.

In the case of Scott, you put him in a difficult position (depending on how much you believe he contributed to it) and then fire him when he doesn't produce? He was left with no QB, half of his star RB, without his RT, and without his star WR. What are reasonable expectations at that point?

Ignoring the records in FCS, they put up:

2014- 32.7 points per game
2015- 24.2 points per game (improved after a terrible start)
2016- 35.1 points per game
2017- 20.7 points per game

Obviously, the offense was not where we all would like it to be, but our offense has carried the team in its entire existence. I don't agree with firing a coach that has performed pretty much all but 1 year (2015 was on and off) when there are tons of reasons for the offense not performing well this year.

The argument about scheme/play complexity is really ignorant. We probably change the offense more game to game that anyone I can remember seeing in our conference. They end up adding different wrinkles every week (which has to be tough with a freshman QB, this year). Some of the different wrinkles added or expanded on include pistol (MTSU), the bunch tight set, putting various WRs in the backfield, etc.

Playcalling gets blamed for inconsistent play from a true freshman QB. We would be really dumb to get rid of Scott. Nagy, I can't argue with that one.

It must be ignorance from my perspective. I'm trying to look for stuff. I didn't play football. I didn't really start watching it until we got it at ODU. So every year I'm learning more and more so I don't notice or see those subtle changes. But from my ignorant position I see what looks like creative looks and designed plays from the top 3 or 4 teams we play each season that I just don't see from us. So I'll gladly stand corrected and you are absolutely correct we do put up numbers against the bottom 75% of our conference. That top 25% alludes us still and I think that's what folks are trying identify and see what it takes.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2017 01:44 PM by bit_9.)
11-27-2017 01:43 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
(11-27-2017 01:13 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Two plays really stand out to me. The screen out to the side lin which always results in a 2 yard loss and the run up the middle that is telegraphed. Don't know about anything else, but when Scott keeps calling those two, over and over, something's wrong. Maybe it's play calling, I don't know.

Do you mean the run pass option (RPO), which is the inside zone read to RB, QB keeps if the DE crashes, and has option to run or throw the screen or slant?
11-27-2017 01:48 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Bobby Wilder & Co Coaching by the numbers (since 2014)
(11-27-2017 01:43 PM)bit_9 Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 01:00 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 12:47 PM)bit_9 Wrote:  That seems logical Monarchblue.

I'm kind of in your camp. Warming up to the idea on the OC. Maybe it's just someone new and the OC is better suited at development of players. But bring in someone that is better at play calling.

I can see a case for Nagy and the defensive backs coach.

In the case of Scott, you put him in a difficult position (depending on how much you believe he contributed to it) and then fire him when he doesn't produce? He was left with no QB, half of his star RB, without his RT, and without his star WR. What are reasonable expectations at that point?

Ignoring the records in FCS, they put up:

2014- 32.7 points per game
2015- 24.2 points per game (improved after a terrible start)
2016- 35.1 points per game
2017- 20.7 points per game

Obviously, the offense was not where we all would like it to be, but our offense has carried the team in its entire existence. I don't agree with firing a coach that has performed pretty much all but 1 year (2015 was on and off) when there are tons of reasons for the offense not performing well this year.

The argument about scheme/play complexity is really ignorant. We probably change the offense more game to game that anyone I can remember seeing in our conference. They end up adding different wrinkles every week (which has to be tough with a freshman QB, this year). Some of the different wrinkles added or expanded on include pistol (MTSU), the bunch tight set, putting various WRs in the backfield, etc.

Playcalling gets blamed for inconsistent play from a true freshman QB. We would be really dumb to get rid of Scott. Nagy, I can't argue with that one.

It must be ignorance from my perspective. I'm trying to look for stuff. I didn't play football. I didn't really start watching it until we got it at ODU. So every year I'm learning more and more so I don't notice or see those subtle changes. But from my ignorant position I see what looks like creative looks and designed plays from the top 3 or 4 teams we play each season that I just don't see from us. So I'll gladly stand corrected and you are absolutely correct we do put up numbers against the bottom 75% of our conference. That top 25% alludes us still and I think that's what folks are trying identify and see what it takes.

The best (in)conference teams we played were FAU (28 points), Marshall (3), North Texas (38), WKY (31), FIU (30), and MTSU (10). MTSU was probably the best defense followed by FAU and then Marshall.

The biggest issue this year was finishing drives/scoring in red zone or just outside of red zone. MTSU is hard to judge, we moved the ball a bit, but it was an embarrassing passing attack when Larussa came into the game, he just couldn't do a thing.

The offense will be fine next year, IMO. I bet they are well secure in the top quarter of CUSA. The defense was decent at time this year, but we are going to need more from them.
11-27-2017 01:57 PM
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