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billthebighawksfan Offline
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Post: #1
Defense
Well it's pretty simply, to win you have to score more than the opponent. How does this team do that? Great question? It seems that this team can score better than I thought that they could. That's good. The down side is that this team can't stop anybody. That's bad. If that's the case, it would seem logical to put work into stopping teams.

My feeling is that this team is still following the past year's team pattern of not defending in the half court with Keatts, but not selling out the whole floor. Keatts would like TO's, but had the guns to just get more possessions and still win, but it was never total "mayhem". He just wanted the pace faster. This team is still pretty good offensively, but needs to have more focus in the half court on defense to win against quality like tonight. If that means going zone and "selectively" running, well that's something different and may help. If you're playing man, help the guy that's getting beat off the dribble by seeing ball and man, then do that. Help the helper after that.

The talent is there to compete, but it's up to the players and coaches at this point. These guys need to come out mad after this performance and show something defensively. Guys that are hungry to compete on the defensive end should play. That's the bottom line.
11-25-2017 12:33 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Defense
We don't have a roster of defenders, we have a roster of scorers. That's how Keatts put the roster together and why he played full court pressure. It's that simple. Playing the press turned mediocre defenders into a turnover machine which allowed us have more possessions, score easy buckets off turnovers and steals, and shorten the shot clock for our opponent. Playing an uptempo offense with small guards and no real big men to defend is a recipe for disaster without a press. Right now we have last years uptempo offense without least years pressing defense and we're getting slaughtered because of it. We couldn't defend a weak DivII team.

McGrath is either going to have to implement the press ala Keatts, or he's going to have to slow tempo and keep the games lower scoring. If not, we are going to have Benny Moss II and his tenure here is going to be short lived. Sorry, but we're not going to "coach" a bunch of undersized guards recruited to score to suddenly be great defenders.

This is exactly why I wanted Siddle to remain as our coach so badly. We'd have never lost all our recruits, we'd have the same style of play as Keatts, and no way we'd be getting blown out like this. I want to get on board, but i'm still furious we completely abandoned a style that led us to three first place finishes and two NCAA bids following a decade of crappy basketball.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2017 06:26 AM by 82hawk.)
11-25-2017 06:22 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Defense
A UNC guy like McGrath isn't going to change what he has been taught the past 10+ years. We are going to play his way, and this season may be part of the transition pains from Keatts Havoc style to McGrath's UNC style.

It's going to come down to whether or not McGrath can recruit the guys needed to play his style. So we will see
11-25-2017 07:50 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Defense
I don't buy the "these kids are just scorers, not defenders". Defending is a state of mind. These kids are great athletes, are big enough, fast enough and strong enough to defend, the coaches have to get them to buy into it. I'd like to see a bit of progress in the D, but it appears to be getting worse.
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basket...efficiency

LAST, 351st in ALL OF D1, that is just outright pathetic!
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2017 08:14 AM by Seahawkhoops.)
11-25-2017 08:14 AM
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82hawk Offline
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RE: Defense
You don't have to "buy it". We have small guards as a group. They are not going to prevent bigger guards from going by them or shooting over them without fouling. We were able to hide our lack of guard size using the press while Keatts was here. He knew they were small, but he also knew they could put the ball in the hoop. The press was the equalizer and allowed us to go on runs and create separation. Had Keatts played the style of ball we are playing right now, and rarely pressed, we'd have never won CAA championships.

He may recruit different players who can be successful in "his style" of play, but we don't have those players yet. We'll need 6'4" and 6'5" point guards and shooting guards. Ours are 6'0". He'll need 6'7" - 6'8" players to play the 4 who can hit from 3, ours are 6'7" and can't hit from past 5 feet or 6'6" and smaller. And he'll need 6'10" centers who can defend the rim.

Unless we are willing to write this year off(i'm not), we have to change our style of play.
11-25-2017 09:12 AM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Defense
Agree on all 82. You're both right in terms of the problems on defense, but I agree with 82 that you can't coach size. Keatts assembled a roster built for running non stop and able to press on defense. If we don't use that press, we're going to be out-sized and out-muscled in nearly every game we play. Keep in mind, McGrath hasn't experienced CAA referees either. That's really gonna shock that Kansas/UNC mindset of his.

I don't think any of us want to write the year off, so hopefully there's some adaptation. What I don't understand is coaches (regardless of who they are) always strictly implementing their "style" on teams that aren't built that way. Surely McGrath probably has more basketball knowledge in his left foot than all of us combined, so I'm not sure why that's never an option for coaches. Try a mix of their own system without completely abandoning what the current team is built (size) for? Seems a no brainer to me. I don't get paid to coach the 'ol roundball though.
11-25-2017 10:43 AM
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ml1323 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Defense
Defense is a state of mind, CB said similar statements in his post game last night. No, Talley will not match up perfectly against a 6-4 guard, but he can sure keep him in front of him by moving his feet. I am all for a light press for the majority of the game; if we decrease the opponent’s time in the front court then we decrease their time to run their offensive set.
11-25-2017 10:57 AM
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billthebighawksfan Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Defense
I agree ML. It is a state of mind in UNCW's case. They haven't defended half court in a long time, even with Keatts, but got away with it with the press like '82 was saying. We all just want to see improvement right now. If they can get some stops, they actually rebound pretty well as a team. I also agree with some token pressure. We will see if they have a better outing tonight.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2017 11:19 AM by billthebighawksfan.)
11-25-2017 11:16 AM
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ml1323 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Defense
(11-25-2017 11:16 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote:  I agree ML. It is a state of mind in UNCW's case. They haven't defended half court in a long time, even with Keatts, but got away with it with the press like '82 was saying. We all just want to see improvement right now. If they can get some stops, they actually rebound pretty well as a team.

My issue with Keatts’ was that he didn’t teach how to defend without fouling, if at all. We had common results where our foul count would be upper 20s to 30s, and too many of them would be on guards that occurred 30 feet from the basket. I thought we were seeing improvement this year, especially with Tae, but now he’s gotten in trouble the last two games and if we’re giving up 90+ a night maybe we aren’t fouling enough.
11-25-2017 11:22 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Defense
So because McGrath is coaching Keatts' guys, he can't succeed here? This is why fans don't make the decisions. A coaching hire is made with the next 5+ years in mind. Give the guy a chance to recruit "his" players while simultaneously installing his system before calling the hire a failure. Sheesh.
11-27-2017 02:35 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Defense
(11-25-2017 11:22 AM)ml1323 Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:16 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote:  I agree ML. It is a state of mind in UNCW's case. They haven't defended half court in a long time, even with Keatts, but got away with it with the press like '82 was saying. We all just want to see improvement right now. If they can get some stops, they actually rebound pretty well as a team.

My issue with Keatts’ was that he didn’t teach how to defend without fouling, if at all. We had common results where our foul count would be upper 20s to 30s, and too many of them would be on guards that occurred 30 feet from the basket. I thought we were seeing improvement this year, especially with Tae, but now he’s gotten in trouble the last two games and if we’re giving up 90+ a night maybe we aren’t fouling enough.

this is a great point ML. Keatts seemed to not care about foul count nor did he adjust his approach when the refs were calling a tight game. See our last game at ECU where the refs called fouls on everything we did.
11-27-2017 03:10 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Defense
So I guess we should all bet on the over in our matchups this season?
12-01-2017 12:08 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Defense
(12-01-2017 12:08 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  So I guess we should all bet on the over in our matchups this season?

Safest bet you can make!
12-01-2017 09:12 AM
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UNCWSuperFan Offline
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Post: #14
Defense
Synergy report run by our friend @BrantGNR:
https://twitter.com/BrantGNR/status/938085581883666432

[Image: 09765d116ee2a51d252350c99713972c.jpg]
12-05-2017 12:06 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Defense
(12-05-2017 12:06 PM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  Synergy report run by our friend @BrantGNR:
https://twitter.com/BrantGNR/status/938085581883666432

[Image: 09765d116ee2a51d252350c99713972c.jpg]
I see what the numbers say there, but in the ECU game Zone worked, man didn't at all. But yet coach decided to switch from zone after we got the lead and it was quickly relinquished.
12-05-2017 12:09 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Defense
Watching the suffocating pressure of WVU dominating Pitt and Pitt folding under that pressure sure make me miss what we had.
12-09-2017 08:50 PM
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70shawk Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Defense
(12-05-2017 12:09 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 12:06 PM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  Synergy report run by our friend @BrantGNR:
https://twitter.com/BrantGNR/status/938085581883666432

[Image: 09765d116ee2a51d252350c99713972c.jpg]
I see what the numbers say there, but in the ECU game Zone worked, man didn't at all. But yet coach decided to switch from zone after we got the lead and it was quickly relinquished.

I asked a question about the zone to our good friends at the beat and the beard podcast. Their response seemed to be that CB wants to run a man to man defense, and that he wants to "bite the bullet" and keep running it, even if the zone would work better for now - as it did in the ecu game when we played it.


Makes no sense to me. But what do I know?
12-09-2017 10:57 PM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Defense
(12-09-2017 10:57 PM)70shawk Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 12:09 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 12:06 PM)UNCWSuperFan Wrote:  Synergy report run by our friend @BrantGNR:
https://twitter.com/BrantGNR/status/938085581883666432

[Image: 09765d116ee2a51d252350c99713972c.jpg]
I see what the numbers say there, but in the ECU game Zone worked, man didn't at all. But yet coach decided to switch from zone after we got the lead and it was quickly relinquished.

I asked a question about the zone to our good friends at the beat and the beard podcast. Their response seemed to be that CB wants to run a man to man defense, and that he wants to "bite the bullet" and keep running it, even if the zone would work better for now - as it did in the ecu game when we played it.


Makes no sense to me. But what do I know?

If he can improve the M2M then yeah, I get it. If it doesn't improve, and translate to wins... then it doesn't make sense to me either.

But... we are relegated to the luxury of watching it all play out.
12-10-2017 01:16 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Defense
The question is why? Why man to man instead of zone? What's the purpose or reasoning behind "biting the bullet"'? What is the intended benefit that is greater than playing zone? To just say "we're playing man....because we're playing man" is foolish.

There are plenty of great teams that play zone or at least play some zone to help the team WIN. Isn't that the goal? To win? If not, what is the goal?
12-10-2017 07:34 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Defense
Agree with all you guys! Good coaches adjust. I LOVE to play a half court trap with the boys i coach, but some years i just don't have the personnel to pull it off effectively so i don't run it! Same applies here with Zone- Man with Coach. You have to use what works with YOUR team and if it doesn't, adjust!
12-10-2017 12:16 PM
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