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Carey vs. the Big Ten
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thehappyhuskie Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-25-2017 11:42 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:38 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:32 PM)7 Wrote:  Reminder that Dave Doeren lost to....KANSAS
With Harnish.

NIU scored 40 something...it was a D issue. Harnish was on.

that still brings up another two questions, for all the Carey haters, how does his win/losses stack up against other NIU coaches?

How about other MAC coaches? My guess is that most MAC coaches who have moved on up have the same percentages against other MAC schools/MAC losing schools/FCS schools, etc.
11-25-2017 11:52 PM
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PrideinthePack2 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-25-2017 11:18 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  Is this based on the teams record at the end of the year or at the time we played them?
When NIU beat Alabama they were ranked but ended the year under .500
I would count that as a win over a team with a winning record for Novak because key players could get hurt after you play them.
In 2003 we lost Nick Duffy before playing BG and Toledo.
If we had him I believe we don't lose those games.

People play it both ways though. FSU was a good team when we played them. #12 Coaches Poll/#13 AP. Good not elite but when people talk about them it’s....

“THEY HAD A HALL OF FAMER AT EVERY POSITION!!! THE BALLBOY LITERALLY WAS A FIRST ROUND PICK!!!”
11-26-2017 12:11 AM
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PrideinthePack2 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-25-2017 11:52 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:42 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:38 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:32 PM)7 Wrote:  Reminder that Dave Doeren lost to....KANSAS
With Harnish.

NIU scored 40 something...it was a D issue. Harnish was on.

that still brings up another two questions, for all the Carey haters, how does his win/losses stack up against other NIU coaches?

How about other MAC coaches? My guess is that most MAC coaches who have moved on up have the same percentages against other MAC schools/MAC losing schools/FCS schools, etc.

Would you say Carey has been a success by only winning 1 conference title in the 5 years (and 0 Bowls) since the Orange Bowl?”

It would be unfair not to mention his Big Ten record, but as this thread shows it’s not as impressive when you take it into context.

As far as wins/losses, we can beat the Ball St’s of the world until the cows come home but first and foremost his success should be measured by winning conference titles.

We shouldn’t compare Carey to past NIU/current/past MAC coaches, we were in prime position to turn a corner, to become Boise St (Midwest Edition). We should have won mutiple MAC titles, competing for them isn’t good enough when you have tasted the Orange Bowl and were only one (poorly coached) game away from going to the Fiesta Bowl.

I don’t think my expectations are Alabama-esque. I said 2 MAC championships, plus sprinkle a bowl win here and there would be acceptable. Of course there’s going to be down years, of course there’s going to be injuries. 1 in 5 still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

An argument I have seen is that the talent level isn’t up to par. It’s Carey’s job to recruit and he hasn’t been getting players that are good enough to win the MAC more often that he has been doing. That talent level/QB situation is a direct reflection on Carey.

Next year is shaping up to be a big year. The non-conference slate is brutal and I don’t think a reasonable person would hold it against Carey if they struggled. As far as conference season, they have to win the MAC, competing isn’t good enough anymore. Just win baby.
11-26-2017 12:27 AM
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MMBOANIU Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
To assume if NIU hired a different coach after Carey coached the Orange Bowl game that NIU would have become as successful as Boise State is a reach. We would all like to think that but not exactly reality. Watching NIU football since the mid 80's I have seen a lot of bad teams. I would never had dreamed NIU would go to the Orange Bowl. Seeing the Orange Bowl reps in Detroit and then going was amazing. I went to the Orange Bowl game thinking this could possibly never happen again. Then to almost go to the Fiesta Bowl. This is a side note I realize Carey did not bring NIU to the Orange Bowl. Just got excited thinking about that time again. Yes it is a shame Carey has not built on that moment.
11-26-2017 08:12 AM
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PrideinthePack2 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 08:12 AM)MMBOANIU Wrote:  To assume if NIU hired a different coach after Carey coached the Orange Bowl game that NIU would have become as successful as Boise State is a reach. We would all like to think that but not exactly reality. Watching NIU football since the mid 80's I have seen a lot of bad teams. I would never had dreamed NIU would go to the Orange Bowl. Seeing the Orange Bowl reps in Detroit and then going was amazing. I went to the Orange Bowl game thinking this could possibly never happen again. Then to almost go to the Fiesta Bowl. This is a side note I realize Carey did not bring NIU to the Orange Bowl. Just got excited thinking about that time again. Yes it is a shame Carey has not built on that moment.

I should have said Boise St-lite.

My personal bar for success after 5 years is at least 2 conference titles and a bowl win or two. I really don’t think that is reaching. Just building/maintaining what we already have.
11-26-2017 09:03 AM
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epasnoopy Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 08:12 AM)MMBOANIU Wrote:  To assume if NIU hired a different coach after Carey coached the Orange Bowl game that NIU would have become as successful as Boise State is a reach. We would all like to think that but not exactly reality. Watching NIU football since the mid 80's I have seen a lot of bad teams. I would never had dreamed NIU would go to the Orange Bowl. Seeing the Orange Bowl reps in Detroit and then going was amazing. I went to the Orange Bowl game thinking this could possibly never happen again. Then to almost go to the Fiesta Bowl. This is a side note I realize Carey did not bring NIU to the Orange Bowl. Just got excited thinking about that time again. Yes it is a shame Carey has not built on that moment.

NIU was riding high then. There would have been a lot of coaches who would have wanted the NIU gig. A program that was already built up coming off a BCS bowl and still had Jordan Lynch and a bunch of other good players returning. Instead we cheaped out and hired a guy from the coaching staff whose resume was mostly built on being a position coach at the lower level. No other 1-A school would have given Carey a head coaching job with his resume. If we really wanted to keep Carey we could have kept him on the new coaching staff, it's not like Dave Doeren was bringing him to NC State.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2017 10:04 AM by epasnoopy.)
11-26-2017 09:29 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 12:27 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:52 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:42 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:38 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:32 PM)7 Wrote:  Reminder that Dave Doeren lost to....KANSAS
With Harnish.

NIU scored 40 something...it was a D issue. Harnish was on.

that still brings up another two questions, for all the Carey haters, how does his win/losses stack up against other NIU coaches?

How about other MAC coaches? My guess is that most MAC coaches who have moved on up have the same percentages against other MAC schools/MAC losing schools/FCS schools, etc.

Would you say Carey has been a success by only winning 1 conference title in the 5 years (and 0 Bowls) since the Orange Bowl?”

It would be unfair not to mention his Big Ten record, but as this thread shows it’s not as impressive when you take it into context.

As far as wins/losses, we can beat the Ball St’s of the world until the cows come home but first and foremost his success should be measured by winning conference titles.

We shouldn’t compare Carey to past NIU/current/past MAC coaches, we were in prime position to turn a corner, to become Boise St (Midwest Edition). We should have won mutiple MAC titles, competing for them isn’t good enough when you have tasted the Orange Bowl and were only one (poorly coached) game away from going to the Fiesta Bowl.

I don’t think my expectations are Alabama-esque. I said 2 MAC championships, plus sprinkle a bowl win here and there would be acceptable. Of course there’s going to be down years, of course there’s going to be injuries. 1 in 5 still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

An argument I have seen is that the talent level isn’t up to par. It’s Carey’s job to recruit and he hasn’t been getting players that are good enough to win the MAC more often that he has been doing. That talent level/QB situation is a direct reflection on Carey.

Next year is shaping up to be a big year. The non-conference slate is brutal and I don’t think a reasonable person would hold it against Carey if they struggled. As far as conference season, they have to win the MAC, competing isn’t good enough anymore. Just win baby.

We should compare Carey to recent coaches who took over Mac teams in their prime. Like Dan Enos in 2010 who took a MACC 12-2 team to 3-9. Or in 2011 when Don Treadwell took a MACC 10-4 Miami team to a record of 4-8. Then in 2016 there's Mike Jinks and the job he did taking a MACC 10-4 BG squad down to 4-8. Let's not forget the still fresh job Tim Lester did. He Took the 13-1, next Boise, Broncos from 13-1 to 6-6.
11-26-2017 10:00 AM
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PrideinthePack2 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
Winning MAC Championships doesn’t compare to making the Orange Bowl/one game away from the Fiesta Bowl. Two completely different levels.

The closest you have is Western Michigan but A.) They did not have close to the sustained success that NIU had and B.) Their head coach left.

Pretty terrible examples.
11-26-2017 10:05 AM
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epasnoopy Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 10:00 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 12:27 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:52 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:42 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:38 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  With Harnish.

NIU scored 40 something...it was a D issue. Harnish was on.

that still brings up another two questions, for all the Carey haters, how does his win/losses stack up against other NIU coaches?

How about other MAC coaches? My guess is that most MAC coaches who have moved on up have the same percentages against other MAC schools/MAC losing schools/FCS schools, etc.

Would you say Carey has been a success by only winning 1 conference title in the 5 years (and 0 Bowls) since the Orange Bowl?”

It would be unfair not to mention his Big Ten record, but as this thread shows it’s not as impressive when you take it into context.

As far as wins/losses, we can beat the Ball St’s of the world until the cows come home but first and foremost his success should be measured by winning conference titles.

We shouldn’t compare Carey to past NIU/current/past MAC coaches, we were in prime position to turn a corner, to become Boise St (Midwest Edition). We should have won mutiple MAC titles, competing for them isn’t good enough when you have tasted the Orange Bowl and were only one (poorly coached) game away from going to the Fiesta Bowl.

I don’t think my expectations are Alabama-esque. I said 2 MAC championships, plus sprinkle a bowl win here and there would be acceptable. Of course there’s going to be down years, of course there’s going to be injuries. 1 in 5 still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

An argument I have seen is that the talent level isn’t up to par. It’s Carey’s job to recruit and he hasn’t been getting players that are good enough to win the MAC more often that he has been doing. That talent level/QB situation is a direct reflection on Carey.

Next year is shaping up to be a big year. The non-conference slate is brutal and I don’t think a reasonable person would hold it against Carey if they struggled. As far as conference season, they have to win the MAC, competing isn’t good enough anymore. Just win baby.

We should compare Carey to recent coaches who took over Mac teams in their prime. Like Dan Enos in 2010 who took a MACC 12-2 team to 3-9. Or in 2011 when Don Treadwell took a MACC 10-4 Miami team to a record of 4-8. Then in 2016 there's Mike Jinks and the job he did taking a MACC 10-4 BG squad down to 4-8. Let's not forget the still fresh job Tim Lester did. He Took the 13-1, next Boise, Broncos from 13-1 to 6-6.

Except WMU lost most of its best players including a four year starting QB and first round draft pick receiver and CMU lost Dan Lefevour and Antonio Brown among others. Carey got to keep Jordan Lynch and an all star cast from the Orange Bowl.
11-26-2017 10:07 AM
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PrideinthePack2 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
Even if you want to compare Carey to them, what point are you trying to make?

“Well these guys completely failed at their job, so it’s ok for Carey to fail too.”

“Last years 5-7 season, success! Because Enos went 3-9.”

Have some self-respect.
11-26-2017 10:12 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 10:07 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 10:00 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 12:27 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:52 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:42 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  NIU scored 40 something...it was a D issue. Harnish was on.

that still brings up another two questions, for all the Carey haters, how does his win/losses stack up against other NIU coaches?

How about other MAC coaches? My guess is that most MAC coaches who have moved on up have the same percentages against other MAC schools/MAC losing schools/FCS schools, etc.

Would you say Carey has been a success by only winning 1 conference title in the 5 years (and 0 Bowls) since the Orange Bowl?”

It would be unfair not to mention his Big Ten record, but as this thread shows it’s not as impressive when you take it into context.

As far as wins/losses, we can beat the Ball St’s of the world until the cows come home but first and foremost his success should be measured by winning conference titles.

We shouldn’t compare Carey to past NIU/current/past MAC coaches, we were in prime position to turn a corner, to become Boise St (Midwest Edition). We should have won mutiple MAC titles, competing for them isn’t good enough when you have tasted the Orange Bowl and were only one (poorly coached) game away from going to the Fiesta Bowl.

I don’t think my expectations are Alabama-esque. I said 2 MAC championships, plus sprinkle a bowl win here and there would be acceptable. Of course there’s going to be down years, of course there’s going to be injuries. 1 in 5 still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

An argument I have seen is that the talent level isn’t up to par. It’s Carey’s job to recruit and he hasn’t been getting players that are good enough to win the MAC more often that he has been doing. That talent level/QB situation is a direct reflection on Carey.

Next year is shaping up to be a big year. The non-conference slate is brutal and I don’t think a reasonable person would hold it against Carey if they struggled. As far as conference season, they have to win the MAC, competing isn’t good enough anymore. Just win baby.

We should compare Carey to recent coaches who took over Mac teams in their prime. Like Dan Enos in 2010 who took a MACC 12-2 team to 3-9. Or in 2011 when Don Treadwell took a MACC 10-4 Miami team to a record of 4-8. Then in 2016 there's Mike Jinks and the job he did taking a MACC 10-4 BG squad down to 4-8. Let's not forget the still fresh job Tim Lester did. He Took the 13-1, next Boise, Broncos from 13-1 to 6-6.

Except WMU lost most of its best players including a four year starting QB and first round draft pick receiver and CMU lost Dan Lefevour and Antonio Brown among others. Carey got to keep Jordan Lynch and an all star cast from the Orange Bowl.

And went 12-2. But you are on the right track though. All of those coaches lost their senior QB and had to start over. They really haven't gotten back to the top since. We did manage to get back to the top once and we are now looking for the next QB to get us there again. It's really that simple. With Maddie we are probably 10-2 and the offense looks fine. Absolutely there are coaches who could have done better with NIU over the last 5 years, but there's a ton who would have done worse too...especially in the price range we can afford.
11-26-2017 10:20 AM
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nucyberdawg Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
Most conferences pretty much have the same top four teams year after year.

Look at BT, SEC and PAC ten.....how many times has a Purdue, Indiana, Illinois or MN reached the top? (Rutgers and MD are too new as members but may never win BT in our lieftime)

How many times has Oregon State or Washington ST been PAC champ? It most always comes down to USC, Stanford, Oregon or Washington.

EMU and BSU are only teams NOT to win MAC the past dozen years.

My point is the MAC seems much more balanced and teams ascend and descend with regularity.
Look at BG and Miami a few yrs ago and this year. It's difficult for most MAC teams to sustain success or win titles because teams are fairly evenly balanced. It mostly seems to come down to which teams have a few more difference makers than others.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2017 10:47 AM by nucyberdawg.)
11-26-2017 10:41 AM
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PrideinthePack2 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 10:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 10:07 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 10:00 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 12:27 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:52 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  that still brings up another two questions, for all the Carey haters, how does his win/losses stack up against other NIU coaches?

How about other MAC coaches? My guess is that most MAC coaches who have moved on up have the same percentages against other MAC schools/MAC losing schools/FCS schools, etc.

Would you say Carey has been a success by only winning 1 conference title in the 5 years (and 0 Bowls) since the Orange Bowl?”

It would be unfair not to mention his Big Ten record, but as this thread shows it’s not as impressive when you take it into context.

As far as wins/losses, we can beat the Ball St’s of the world until the cows come home but first and foremost his success should be measured by winning conference titles.

We shouldn’t compare Carey to past NIU/current/past MAC coaches, we were in prime position to turn a corner, to become Boise St (Midwest Edition). We should have won mutiple MAC titles, competing for them isn’t good enough when you have tasted the Orange Bowl and were only one (poorly coached) game away from going to the Fiesta Bowl.

I don’t think my expectations are Alabama-esque. I said 2 MAC championships, plus sprinkle a bowl win here and there would be acceptable. Of course there’s going to be down years, of course there’s going to be injuries. 1 in 5 still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

An argument I have seen is that the talent level isn’t up to par. It’s Carey’s job to recruit and he hasn’t been getting players that are good enough to win the MAC more often that he has been doing. That talent level/QB situation is a direct reflection on Carey.

Next year is shaping up to be a big year. The non-conference slate is brutal and I don’t think a reasonable person would hold it against Carey if they struggled. As far as conference season, they have to win the MAC, competing isn’t good enough anymore. Just win baby.

We should compare Carey to recent coaches who took over Mac teams in their prime. Like Dan Enos in 2010 who took a MACC 12-2 team to 3-9. Or in 2011 when Don Treadwell took a MACC 10-4 Miami team to a record of 4-8. Then in 2016 there's Mike Jinks and the job he did taking a MACC 10-4 BG squad down to 4-8. Let's not forget the still fresh job Tim Lester did. He Took the 13-1, next Boise, Broncos from 13-1 to 6-6.

Except WMU lost most of its best players including a four year starting QB and first round draft pick receiver and CMU lost Dan Lefevour and Antonio Brown among others. Carey got to keep Jordan Lynch and an all star cast from the Orange Bowl.

And went 12-2. But you are on the right track though. All of those coaches lost their senior QB and had to start over. They really haven't gotten back to the top since. We did manage to get back to the top once and we are now looking for the next QB to get us there again. It's really that simple. With Maddie we are probably 10-2 and the offense looks fine. Absolutely there are coaches who could have done better with NIU over the last 5 years, but there's a ton who would have done worse too...especially in the price range we can afford.

Again taking things into context, the 12-2 record looks great but one of those losses was arguably the biggest loss in school history. It tainted the season.

For the Orange Bowl, we all hoped we would win but we knew deep down that it would take a perfect game. That one hurt but it was expected.

The BG loss was on a different level. We were supposed to win that game. We were supposed to go back to a BCS Bowl, this time undefeated. It seemed like a foregone conclusion.

We looked great that year. The offense was firing on all cylinders. It was sad how everything fell apart. You could sense Carey panicking during the game, he was way above his head. Lots of those same qualities still surface today. He’s not a good in game manager. I think a lot of the Carey hate stems from that game. He blew it.
11-26-2017 10:48 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 10:41 AM)nucyberdawg Wrote:  Most conferences pretty much have the same top four teams year after year.

Look at BT, SEC and PAC ten.....how many times has a Purdue, Indiana, Illinois or MN reached the top? (Rutgers and MD are too new as members but may never win BT in our lieftime)

How many times has Oregon State or Washington ST been PAC champ? It most always comes down to USC, Stanford, Oregon or Washington.

EMU and BSU are only teams NOT to win MAC the past dozen years.

My point is the MAC seems much more balanced and teams ascend and descend with regularity.
Look at BG and Miami a few yrs ago and this year. It's difficult for MAC tams to win titles because teams are fairly evenly balanced. It mostly seems to come down to which teams have a few more difference makers than others.

The recruiting disparity in the B1G is greater from top to bottom. OSO and Michigan have a recruit avg around a 90+ while Purdue and Indian are around an 82. But in the MAC the top school is around an 80 and the bottom around a 77. Those top P5s just snatch up the elite 5 star guys and it sets them apart. The anomaly is Wisconsin. They're sort of the NIU of the B1G. Usually 5th or so in recruiting but they manage to win consistently.
11-26-2017 10:52 AM
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7 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 10:07 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 10:00 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 12:27 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:52 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  
(11-25-2017 11:42 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  NIU scored 40 something...it was a D issue. Harnish was on.

that still brings up another two questions, for all the Carey haters, how does his win/losses stack up against other NIU coaches?

How about other MAC coaches? My guess is that most MAC coaches who have moved on up have the same percentages against other MAC schools/MAC losing schools/FCS schools, etc.

Would you say Carey has been a success by only winning 1 conference title in the 5 years (and 0 Bowls) since the Orange Bowl?”

It would be unfair not to mention his Big Ten record, but as this thread shows it’s not as impressive when you take it into context.

As far as wins/losses, we can beat the Ball St’s of the world until the cows come home but first and foremost his success should be measured by winning conference titles.

We shouldn’t compare Carey to past NIU/current/past MAC coaches, we were in prime position to turn a corner, to become Boise St (Midwest Edition). We should have won mutiple MAC titles, competing for them isn’t good enough when you have tasted the Orange Bowl and were only one (poorly coached) game away from going to the Fiesta Bowl.

I don’t think my expectations are Alabama-esque. I said 2 MAC championships, plus sprinkle a bowl win here and there would be acceptable. Of course there’s going to be down years, of course there’s going to be injuries. 1 in 5 still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

An argument I have seen is that the talent level isn’t up to par. It’s Carey’s job to recruit and he hasn’t been getting players that are good enough to win the MAC more often that he has been doing. That talent level/QB situation is a direct reflection on Carey.

Next year is shaping up to be a big year. The non-conference slate is brutal and I don’t think a reasonable person would hold it against Carey if they struggled. As far as conference season, they have to win the MAC, competing isn’t good enough anymore. Just win baby.

We should compare Carey to recent coaches who took over Mac teams in their prime. Like Dan Enos in 2010 who took a MACC 12-2 team to 3-9. Or in 2011 when Don Treadwell took a MACC 10-4 Miami team to a record of 4-8. Then in 2016 there's Mike Jinks and the job he did taking a MACC 10-4 BG squad down to 4-8. Let's not forget the still fresh job Tim Lester did. He Took the 13-1, next Boise, Broncos from 13-1 to 6-6.

Except WMU lost most of its best players including a four year starting QB and first round draft pick receiver and CMU lost Dan Lefevour and Antonio Brown among others. Carey got to keep Jordan Lynch and an all star cast from the Orange Bowl.
Did Carey like die after that or did they not win 10 games and the conference the year after Lynch left?
11-26-2017 11:02 AM
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7 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
And to say NIU was set up to be the next Boise State isn't living in reality. There isn't another Boise State. Hawaii, UCF, and WMU all made NY6 Bowls and took immediate steps backwards. Fresno State and Kent State, the two teams NIU was fighting with for BCS Births took huge steps backwards. There's only 1 Boise State.

Hell, people are talking about how disappointing NIU has only won 1 MAC Championship since Doeren left. Boise State has only won 1 conference championship since 2012 too (although they could win their 2nd on Saturday).

If your expectations are for NIU to be Boise State in their prime every single year, you are living in a delusional world. Boise State isn't even Boise State every single year.

NIU has taken has absolutely taken a step backwards since the Lynch days. It's reality. It was always going to happen. If your expectation is to win 10+ games every year and be in the conversation for a NY6 Bowl, you need to change your expectation level. That is never going to happen on a consistent basis. Winning 8+ games like Carey has done 2 of the last 3 years is a totally acceptable season.

Be in competition for the MAC West and go to a bowl game every year, that should be the goal. We aren't Ohio State. This is a school with no fan base and even less money. Carey's been here 5 years, been to the conference title game 3 times, won it once, was in contention for it on the final day of the year this year, and will have gone to 4 bowls. He's nowhere near the hot seat nor should he be. If that's not good enough for you, you are living in a fantasy world.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2017 11:15 AM by 7.)
11-26-2017 11:09 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 10:48 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 10:20 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 10:07 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 10:00 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 12:27 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  Would you say Carey has been a success by only winning 1 conference title in the 5 years (and 0 Bowls) since the Orange Bowl?”

It would be unfair not to mention his Big Ten record, but as this thread shows it’s not as impressive when you take it into context.

As far as wins/losses, we can beat the Ball St’s of the world until the cows come home but first and foremost his success should be measured by winning conference titles.

We shouldn’t compare Carey to past NIU/current/past MAC coaches, we were in prime position to turn a corner, to become Boise St (Midwest Edition). We should have won mutiple MAC titles, competing for them isn’t good enough when you have tasted the Orange Bowl and were only one (poorly coached) game away from going to the Fiesta Bowl.

I don’t think my expectations are Alabama-esque. I said 2 MAC championships, plus sprinkle a bowl win here and there would be acceptable. Of course there’s going to be down years, of course there’s going to be injuries. 1 in 5 still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

An argument I have seen is that the talent level isn’t up to par. It’s Carey’s job to recruit and he hasn’t been getting players that are good enough to win the MAC more often that he has been doing. That talent level/QB situation is a direct reflection on Carey.

Next year is shaping up to be a big year. The non-conference slate is brutal and I don’t think a reasonable person would hold it against Carey if they struggled. As far as conference season, they have to win the MAC, competing isn’t good enough anymore. Just win baby.

We should compare Carey to recent coaches who took over Mac teams in their prime. Like Dan Enos in 2010 who took a MACC 12-2 team to 3-9. Or in 2011 when Don Treadwell took a MACC 10-4 Miami team to a record of 4-8. Then in 2016 there's Mike Jinks and the job he did taking a MACC 10-4 BG squad down to 4-8. Let's not forget the still fresh job Tim Lester did. He Took the 13-1, next Boise, Broncos from 13-1 to 6-6.

Except WMU lost most of its best players including a four year starting QB and first round draft pick receiver and CMU lost Dan Lefevour and Antonio Brown among others. Carey got to keep Jordan Lynch and an all star cast from the Orange Bowl.

And went 12-2. But you are on the right track though. All of those coaches lost their senior QB and had to start over. They really haven't gotten back to the top since. We did manage to get back to the top once and we are now looking for the next QB to get us there again. It's really that simple. With Maddie we are probably 10-2 and the offense looks fine. Absolutely there are coaches who could have done better with NIU over the last 5 years, but there's a ton who would have done worse too...especially in the price range we can afford.

Again taking things into context, the 12-2 record looks great but one of those losses was arguably the biggest loss in school history. It tainted the season.

For the Orange Bowl, we all hoped we would win but we knew deep down that it would take a perfect game. That one hurt but it was expected.

The BG loss was on a different level. We were supposed to win that game. We were supposed to go back to a BCS Bowl, this time undefeated. It seemed like a foregone conclusion.

We looked great that year. The offense was firing on all cylinders. It was sad how everything fell apart. You could sense Carey panicking during the game, he was way above his head. Lots of those same qualities still surface today. He’s not a good in game manager. I think a lot of the Carey hate stems from that game. He blew it.

I agree that BG loss was a huge blow to the program. And Carey was exposed. One thing he did wrong was count in Lynch too much. But how could you blame him for that? But Lynch was bad in almost every big post game of his career except the 2012 MACC. They lost to BG because Matt Johnson was better at playing QB than Lynch. Hell, if Johnson didn't get hurt in 2014 he probably wins 3 MACC in a row. But Carey's biggest weakness was the defense from 2013 until 2016. That's where NIU fell off. The offense was good through those years. Now he has the defense right, but the offense stinks. But to me, that's 90% about getting the right guy under center.
11-26-2017 11:26 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 11:09 AM)7 Wrote:  And to say NIU was set up to be the next Boise State isn't living in reality. There isn't another Boise State. Hawaii, UCF, and WMU all made NY6 Bowls and took immediate steps backwards. Fresno State and Kent State, the two teams NIU was fighting with for BCS Births took huge steps backwards. There's only 1 Boise State.

Hell, people are talking about how disappointing NIU has only won 1 MAC Championship since Doeren left. Boise State has only won 1 conference championship since 2012 too (although they could win their 2nd on Saturday).

If your expectations are for NIU to be Boise State in their prime every single year, you are living in a delusional world. Boise State isn't even Boise State every single year.

NIU has taken has absolutely taken a step backwards since the Lynch days. It's reality. It was always going to happen. If your expectation is to win 10+ games every year and be in the conversation for a NY6 Bowl, you need to change your expectation level. That is never going to happen on a consistent basis. Winning 8+ games like Carey has done 2 of the last 3 years is a totally acceptable season.

Be in competition for the MAC West and go to a bowl game every year, that should be the goal. We aren't Ohio State. This is a school with no fan base and even less money. Carey's been here 5 years, been to the conference title game 3 times, won it once, was in contention for it on the final day of the year this year, and will have gone to 4 bowls. He's nowhere near the hot seat nor should he be. If that's not good enough for you, you are living in a fantasy world.

I've been repeating this for years now - adjust your expectations. If fans would stop seeing NIU as the next Boise and just see them as one of the best Mac teams, things come into perspective. BTW, the MAC is the second worst conference in FBS, so also keep that in mind. NIU competes for MAC championships, not NY6 bowls. Now maybe along the way one season things will fall into place and it COULD happen again. Just don't expect it. (Ironically, this years schedule was perfect. BC,SDSU are two Bowl teams who we could have beaten, and we caught Nebraska at the perfect time. If we had Maddie who knows.)
11-26-2017 11:32 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 11:32 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 11:09 AM)7 Wrote:  And to say NIU was set up to be the next Boise State isn't living in reality. There isn't another Boise State. Hawaii, UCF, and WMU all made NY6 Bowls and took immediate steps backwards. Fresno State and Kent State, the two teams NIU was fighting with for BCS Births took huge steps backwards. There's only 1 Boise State.

Hell, people are talking about how disappointing NIU has only won 1 MAC Championship since Doeren left. Boise State has only won 1 conference championship since 2012 too (although they could win their 2nd on Saturday).

If your expectations are for NIU to be Boise State in their prime every single year, you are living in a delusional world. Boise State isn't even Boise State every single year.

NIU has taken has absolutely taken a step backwards since the Lynch days. It's reality. It was always going to happen. If your expectation is to win 10+ games every year and be in the conversation for a NY6 Bowl, you need to change your expectation level. That is never going to happen on a consistent basis. Winning 8+ games like Carey has done 2 of the last 3 years is a totally acceptable season.

Be in competition for the MAC West and go to a bowl game every year, that should be the goal. We aren't Ohio State. This is a school with no fan base and even less money. Carey's been here 5 years, been to the conference title game 3 times, won it once, was in contention for it on the final day of the year this year, and will have gone to 4 bowls. He's nowhere near the hot seat nor should he be. If that's not good enough for you, you are living in a fantasy world.

I've been repeating this for years now - adjust your expectations. If fans would stop seeing NIU as the next Boise and just see them as one of the best Mac teams, things come into perspective. BTW, the MAC is the second worst conference in FBS, so also keep that in mind. NIU competes for MAC championships, not NY6 bowls. Now maybe along the way one season things will fall into place and it COULD happen again. Just don't expect it. (Ironically, this years schedule was perfect. BC,SDSU are two Bowl teams who we could have beaten, and we caught Nebraska at the perfect time. If we had Maddie who knows.)

Yea I have a bit higher expectations than being in the hunt for just a MAC championship each year. Does nothing for the national perception for NIU as the MAC is viewed as a joke of a conference. I view it that NIU should be in the running among The top 5 programs in the G5 each year. I know that won't be the case year in and out but most seasons I feel like they should be at that point.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2017 11:45 AM by HuskiePride12.)
11-26-2017 11:43 AM
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7 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Carey vs. the Big Ten
(11-26-2017 11:43 AM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 11:32 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(11-26-2017 11:09 AM)7 Wrote:  And to say NIU was set up to be the next Boise State isn't living in reality. There isn't another Boise State. Hawaii, UCF, and WMU all made NY6 Bowls and took immediate steps backwards. Fresno State and Kent State, the two teams NIU was fighting with for BCS Births took huge steps backwards. There's only 1 Boise State.

Hell, people are talking about how disappointing NIU has only won 1 MAC Championship since Doeren left. Boise State has only won 1 conference championship since 2012 too (although they could win their 2nd on Saturday).

If your expectations are for NIU to be Boise State in their prime every single year, you are living in a delusional world. Boise State isn't even Boise State every single year.

NIU has taken has absolutely taken a step backwards since the Lynch days. It's reality. It was always going to happen. If your expectation is to win 10+ games every year and be in the conversation for a NY6 Bowl, you need to change your expectation level. That is never going to happen on a consistent basis. Winning 8+ games like Carey has done 2 of the last 3 years is a totally acceptable season.

Be in competition for the MAC West and go to a bowl game every year, that should be the goal. We aren't Ohio State. This is a school with no fan base and even less money. Carey's been here 5 years, been to the conference title game 3 times, won it once, was in contention for it on the final day of the year this year, and will have gone to 4 bowls. He's nowhere near the hot seat nor should he be. If that's not good enough for you, you are living in a fantasy world.

I've been repeating this for years now - adjust your expectations. If fans would stop seeing NIU as the next Boise and just see them as one of the best Mac teams, things come into perspective. BTW, the MAC is the second worst conference in FBS, so also keep that in mind. NIU competes for MAC championships, not NY6 bowls. Now maybe along the way one season things will fall into place and it COULD happen again. Just don't expect it. (Ironically, this years schedule was perfect. BC,SDSU are two Bowl teams who we could have beaten, and we caught Nebraska at the perfect time. If we had Maddie who knows.)

Yea I have a bit higher expectations than being in the hunt for just a MAC championship each year. Does nothing for the national perception for NIU as the MAC is viewed as a joke of a conference. I view it that NIU should be in the running among The top 5 programs in the G5 each year.
And i would tell you NIU is right there in that top 5-10 G5 programs.
11-26-2017 11:46 AM
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