Quote:In a new poll from the University of Chicago's Booth School of Business, 38 economists from schools including Yale, MIT and the University of California-Berkeley weighed in on contentious points about the GOP tax plans.

On one question, the economists were asked whether enacting "a tax bill similar to those currently moving through the House and Senate" would lead to a "substantially higher" rate of economic growth a decade from now than it would otherwise.

Only two percent — or, 1 out of 38 economists — agreed. 36 percent were uncertain, 33 percent disagreed, and another 19 percent strongly disagreed. (The remainder did not answer.)

That one economist who agreed also didn't do so without reservations: while a lower corporate tax rate would likely grow the economy, he wrote, he also said it was "another matter" whether the plan is "fair" in how it spreads the benefits of tax cuts. A recent analysis from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, for example, shows the senate proposal disproportionately benefiting some of the richest Americans.

Economists were much more certain about what the tax bills would do to the debt. They were asked whether a tax bill like those in the House and Senate right now would leave the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio (a common measure of how large the national debt is) "substantially higher" in a decade than otherwise.

On this, fully 43 percent agreed that it would leave the debt level higher, and another 45 percent strongly agreed. Only 1 economist was uncertain. None disagreed.

But there's a catch here, yet again with the one economist who stood alone. That economist, Stanford's Liran Einav, told the Washington Post that he "didn't read the question properly" and in fact agreed with his peers.

Poll: Economists Unanimous That Debt Would Balloon Under GOP Tax Plan

They are nothing but a bunch of economic deniers.

oh shite....another 'pole'

since all my ecoXXX teachers sucked in scope, I put zero faith in their ability to individually forecast.....

the driver of the bus is the 401k/roth.....or did that fly-over only raise that on the nape???

what's really neat???......pointing out the obvious to those that enjoy fail w/o using a single curse word....

let's see......drive the economy by creating jobs or promote subsidizing the 40 oz. camped on the porch?????????????????????????????????

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......I'm not sure which is best method......

(11-24-2017 04:26 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  They are nothing but a bunch of economic deniers.

Flat earthers.

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(11-24-2017 04:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  oh shite....another 'pole'

since all my ecoXXX teachers sucked in scope, I put zero faith in their ability to individually forecast.....

the driver of the bus is the 401k/roth.....or did that fly-over only raise that on the nape???

what's really neat???......pointing out the obvious to those that enjoy fail w/o using a single curse word....

let's see......drive the economy by creating jobs or promote subsidizing the 40 oz. camped on the porch?????????????????????????????????

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......I'm not sure which is best method......

Also relevant.. Colt 45



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(11-24-2017 04:32 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 04:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  oh shite....another 'pole'

since all my ecoXXX teachers sucked in scope, I put zero faith in their ability to individually forecast.....

the driver of the bus is the 401k/roth.....or did that fly-over only raise that on the nape???

what's really neat???......pointing out the obvious to those that enjoy fail w/o using a single curse word....

let's see......drive the economy by creating jobs or promote subsidizing the 40 oz. camped on the porch?????????????????????????????????

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......I'm not sure which is best method......

Also relevant.. Colt 45



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

lol....that too.....

you've had a hard-on for that one lately......do I need to send a gift card so you can toss it out the window like a frisbee as you pass by???

(11-24-2017 04:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Quote:In a new poll from the University of Chicago's Booth School of Business, 38 economists from schools including Yale, MIT and the University of California-Berkeley weighed in on contentious points about the GOP tax plans.

On one question, the economists were asked whether enacting "a tax bill similar to those currently moving through the House and Senate" would lead to a "substantially higher" rate of economic growth a decade from now than it would otherwise.

Only two percent — or, 1 out of 38 economists — agreed. 36 percent were uncertain, 33 percent disagreed, and another 19 percent strongly disagreed. (The remainder did not answer.)

That one economist who agreed also didn't do so without reservations: while a lower corporate tax rate would likely grow the economy, he wrote, he also said it was "another matter" whether the plan is "fair" in how it spreads the benefits of tax cuts. A recent analysis from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, for example, shows the senate proposal disproportionately benefiting some of the richest Americans.

Economists were much more certain about what the tax bills would do to the debt. They were asked whether a tax bill like those in the House and Senate right now would leave the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio (a common measure of how large the national debt is) "substantially higher" in a decade than otherwise.

On this, fully 43 percent agreed that it would leave the debt level higher, and another 45 percent strongly agreed. Only 1 economist was uncertain. None disagreed.

But there's a catch here, yet again with the one economist who stood alone. That economist, Stanford's Liran Einav, told the Washington Post that he "didn't read the question properly" and in fact agreed with his peers.

Poll: Economists Unanimous That Debt Would Balloon Under GOP Tax Plan

Hint to the author of the article.... If you don't think an economic stimulus plan is going to grow the economy.... which most of these guys think it wouldn't, then OF COURSE they're going to say it's going to grow the debt/GDP. Those two things go hand in hand. Presenting them as if it's an addition is misleading at best.

Another point that is misleading is that the bar for agreement is set at 'substantially higher a decade from now'. One could obviously think that it will improve the economy in the short term, but not the long.... or that it would improve the economy, but not 'substantially' and still decide 'no'. One also assumes that no other taxation or changes would take place over the next ten years... which is silly


So really, all this says is that if we do this and only this, these guys think we're going to be in worse shape in 10 years than we are now.

I can't think of one single republican who disagrees.

Now, choosing a few of thousands of possibilities and options (from the right alone) that nobody on this forum is qualified to address and even those 38 economists would give you 38 different opinions, if you do this to stimulate the economy thus allowing us to cut back on the social safety net and the bureaucracies that support it allowing us to cut public support spending... and if the demand for labor encouraged some 60-65 yr olds to continue to work somewhat and delay retirement (by choice) and ESPECIALLY if we're able to pass a VAT or other consumption tax, then they'd likely reach very different conclusions.

The bigger question is why it's 38 and not 500? Why these 38? Why all (it seems) in academia? Why were industry economists (whose ability to project such things is how they make a living, as opposed to merely teaching the various methods of doing so) seemingly excluded and does the number change if they are included?

I suspect the reason these were selected is that this is a purely academic exercise. Industry economists would insist they could make assumptions about what such things would lead to... like I described.... which this poll specifically excluded.

That's how you know it's crap. NOTHING happens in a vacuum

Q: Why did God create economists?

A: In order to make weather forecasters look good.

It doesn't take an expert to see that this new plan is pretty light on "new."

The arguing over it is pretty disingenuous because there isn't actually a lot here.

(11-24-2017 07:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It doesn't take an expert to see that this new plan is pretty light on "new."

The arguing over it is pretty disingenuous because there isn't actually a lot here.

....would be the point how 'this' thread is evolving.....

trying only works in tiddly's.....

a solution has more value....

dem have zero....

I've always heard that if you placed all the world's economists end to end, they'd form a perfect circle.

(11-24-2017 07:14 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  I've always heard that if you placed all the world's economists end to end, they'd form a perfect circle.

akin the human centipede???

(11-24-2017 07:14 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  I've always heard that if you placed all the world's economists end to end, they'd form a perfect circle.

A giant circle jerk

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The tax cuts from Reagan to now Trump have left many people behind while the wealthy have grown. My parents made less than $10,000 a year in the 1980s, and the economy sucks. They both worked their butts off at minimum wage. Reagan's tax cut did nothing for us. It helped placed a gap between the middle class and the wealthy, As it is, the Middle Class are slowly shrinking into the working poor. George W. Bush's paid tax holiday put us into another Great Depression. What did the companies used the money for from the tax cuts? Give CEOs and board members higher pay raises, and buy back stock from investors to inflate the prices of their companies. They never reinvested any money towards the business. That is why Hostess went out of business because of the corruption in the CEO/board members.

And Trump's crowing about the 401 K's growing? Only a small number of people in this country have it, and only a few people who invests in the stock market. The majority of people think the Wall Street is a bunch of crocked crooks that steals money from people and refuse to invest in it. Do you blamed people because of the likes of ENRON?

(11-24-2017 07:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The tax cuts from Reagan to now Trump have left many people behind while the wealthy have grown. My parents made less than $10,000 a year in the 1980s, and the economy sucks. They both worked their butts off at minimum wage. Reagan's tax cut did nothing for us. It helped placed a gap between the middle class and the wealthy, As it is, the Middle Class are slowly shrinking into the working poor. George W. Bush's paid tax holiday put us into another Great Depression. What did the companies used the money for from the tax cuts? Give CEOs and board members higher pay raises, and buy back stock from investors to inflate the prices of their companies. They never reinvested any money towards the business. That is why Hostess went out of business because of the corruption in the CEO/board members.

And Trump's crowing about the 401 K's growing? Only a small number of people in this country have it, and only a few people who invests in the stock market. The majority of people think the Wall Street is a bunch of crocked crooks that steals money from people and refuse to invest in it. Do you blamed people because of the likes of ENRON?

seriously.....your expectation level is aptly defined by this post....

YOU are the numbers WE are trying to elevatel.....

however, all you see is pig vomit.....can't fix you *******.....

have a good ******* day....

(11-24-2017 07:35 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 07:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The tax cuts from Reagan to now Trump have left many people behind while the wealthy have grown. My parents made less than $10,000 a year in the 1980s, and the economy sucks. They both worked their butts off at minimum wage. Reagan's tax cut did nothing for us. It helped placed a gap between the middle class and the wealthy, As it is, the Middle Class are slowly shrinking into the working poor. George W. Bush's paid tax holiday put us into another Great Depression. What did the companies used the money for from the tax cuts? Give CEOs and board members higher pay raises, and buy back stock from investors to inflate the prices of their companies. They never reinvested any money towards the business. That is why Hostess went out of business because of the corruption in the CEO/board members.

And Trump's crowing about the 401 K's growing? Only a small number of people in this country have it, and only a few people who invests in the stock market. The majority of people think the Wall Street is a bunch of crocked crooks that steals money from people and refuse to invest in it. Do you blamed people because of the likes of ENRON?

seriously.....your expectation level is aptly defined by this post....

YOU are the numbers WE are trying to elevatel.....

however, all you see is pig vomit.....can't fix you *******.....

have a good ******* day....

Well, the Republicans keep rolling out these same old ideas that does not work. Seriously, we need a overhaul of our economics for the whole system to work for everybody. As it is? It does not work for everybody. Republicans picked winners and losers, and the majority of this country are the losers.

(11-24-2017 07:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 07:35 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 07:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The tax cuts from Reagan to now Trump have left many people behind while the wealthy have grown. My parents made less than $10,000 a year in the 1980s, and the economy sucks. They both worked their butts off at minimum wage. Reagan's tax cut did nothing for us. It helped placed a gap between the middle class and the wealthy, As it is, the Middle Class are slowly shrinking into the working poor. George W. Bush's paid tax holiday put us into another Great Depression. What did the companies used the money for from the tax cuts? Give CEOs and board members higher pay raises, and buy back stock from investors to inflate the prices of their companies. They never reinvested any money towards the business. That is why Hostess went out of business because of the corruption in the CEO/board members.

And Trump's crowing about the 401 K's growing? Only a small number of people in this country have it, and only a few people who invests in the stock market. The majority of people think the Wall Street is a bunch of crocked crooks that steals money from people and refuse to invest in it. Do you blamed people because of the likes of ENRON?

seriously.....your expectation level is aptly defined by this post....

YOU are the numbers WE are trying to elevatel.....

however, all you see is pig vomit.....can't fix you *******.....

have a good ******* day....

Well, the Republicans keep rolling out these same old ideas that does not work. Seriously, we need a overhaul of our economics for the whole system to work for everybody. As it is? It does not work for everybody. Republicans picked winners and losers, and the majority of this country are the losers.

help me out.....why should it be "everybody"?

do you really believe "everybody" should enjoy the same???

never mind.....this will become a waste of time....

fwiw....I actually believe you in earnest.....sometimes that's not enough.....

#life

(11-24-2017 07:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The tax cuts from Reagan to now Trump have left many people behind while the wealthy have grown. My parents made less than $10,000 a year in the 1980s, and the economy sucks. They both worked their butts off at minimum wage. Reagan's tax cut did nothing for us. It helped placed a gap between the middle class and the wealthy, As it is, the Middle Class are slowly shrinking into the working poor. George W. Bush's paid tax holiday put us into another Great Depression. What did the companies used the money for from the tax cuts? Give CEOs and board members higher pay raises, and buy back stock from investors to inflate the prices of their companies. They never reinvested any money towards the business. That is why Hostess went out of business because of the corruption in the CEO/board members.

And Trump's crowing about the 401 K's growing? Only a small number of people in this country have it, and only a few people who invests in the stock market. The majority of people think the Wall Street is a bunch of crocked crooks that steals money from people and refuse to invest in it. Do you blamed people because of the likes of ENRON?

Changes in SEC regulations in the 80s and early 90s, which allowed a CEO to make 1800x a regular worker, is a separate issue from tax cuts.

It's difficult to cut the taxes on people who don't effectively pay any in the first place. So, tax cuts do tend to help those who make a lot of money. That isn't some kind of grand conspiracy.

I'm a populist and I largely agree with you when it comes to Wall Street and the various discussions which stem from that.

(11-24-2017 07:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The tax cuts from Reagan to now Trump have left many people behind . . .

I stopped reading after I realized that you don't know who's money it is in the first place.

you must have been one of those 38 economists.

(11-24-2017 07:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 07:35 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 07:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The tax cuts from Reagan to now Trump have left many people behind while the wealthy have grown. My parents made less than $10,000 a year in the 1980s, and the economy sucks. They both worked their butts off at minimum wage. Reagan's tax cut did nothing for us. It helped placed a gap between the middle class and the wealthy, As it is, the Middle Class are slowly shrinking into the working poor. George W. Bush's paid tax holiday put us into another Great Depression. What did the companies used the money for from the tax cuts? Give CEOs and board members higher pay raises, and buy back stock from investors to inflate the prices of their companies. They never reinvested any money towards the business. That is why Hostess went out of business because of the corruption in the CEO/board members.

And Trump's crowing about the 401 K's growing? Only a small number of people in this country have it, and only a few people who invests in the stock market. The majority of people think the Wall Street is a bunch of crocked crooks that steals money from people and refuse to invest in it. Do you blamed people because of the likes of ENRON?

seriously.....your expectation level is aptly defined by this post....

YOU are the numbers WE are trying to elevatel.....

however, all you see is pig vomit.....can't fix you *******.....

have a good ******* day....

Well, the Republicans keep rolling out these same old ideas that does not work. Seriously, we need a overhaul of our economics for the whole system to work for everybody. As it is? It does not work for everybody. Republicans picked winners and losers, and the majority of this country are the losers.