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kmdhoya Offline
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Post: #1
OOC
The Big East is off to a 34-7 record going into Thanksgiving. Five of the seven losses were to ranked teams (Notre Dame, Purdue, Baylor, Minnesota and Wichita State). The other two losses are to Maryland and Illinois. No bad losses so far.
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2017 11:46 AM by kmdhoya.)
11-23-2017 11:09 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #2
RE: OOC
yeah very true.

today is a really big day....
Nova gets Tennessee in the "winners bracket" in atlantis. kind of crazy that tourney with 3/4 upsets.
St John's gets Oregon St
Xavier gets GW
Seton Hall gets Rhode Island
DePaul gets Michigan St(ouch)

but the huge one is Butler/Texas. Win and Butler gets Duke and then Florida or Gonzaga most likely. Lose and Butler gets Portland St and then Stanford/Ohio St most likely. You talk about a difference in SOS- that's just huge.
11-23-2017 11:16 AM
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kmdhoya Offline
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Post: #3
RE: OOC
Seton Hall had some solid wins this week against Texas Tech (#22) and Louisville (#17).
Xavier with a victory over Cincinnati (#11).

Creighton lost at Gonzaga (#15). Villanova plays Gonzaga on Tuesday (12/5). Should be a great game.

Butler followed up it's impressive comeback win over Ohio State with a 30 point win over Saint Louis. Next up is Utah on Tuesday (12/5).
12-03-2017 11:30 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #4
RE: OOC
really so far this year what's the Big East's great OOC wins?
Nova over Tennessee
Xavier over 3-5 Wisconsin, Baylor(who lost back to back games), Cincy(who hasn't beaten anyone)
Seton Hall over 4-4 Indiana, 3-5 Vandy, Texas Tech, Louisville(who lost back to back games and hasn't beaten anyone yet like Cincy)
Creighton- over 5-4 Northwestern, UCLA(best win vs Wisconsin)
Providence- over Washington and Boston College
St John's over Nebraska and Oregon St
Butler over Ohio St
Marquette over LSU
Georgetown and DePaul with nothing yet

very underwhelming so far.

right now best wins of the year for Xavier and St John's are AAC teams. If PC can beat Houston- that'd be 3.
12-04-2017 09:14 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #5
RE: OOC
(12-04-2017 09:14 AM)stever20 Wrote:  really so far this year what's the Big East's great OOC wins?
Nova over Tennessee
Xavier over 3-5 Wisconsin, Baylor(who lost back to back games), Cincy(who hasn't beaten anyone)
Seton Hall over 4-4 Indiana, 3-5 Vandy, Texas Tech, Louisville(who lost back to back games and hasn't beaten anyone yet like Cincy)
Creighton- over 5-4 Northwestern, UCLA(best win vs Wisconsin)
Providence- over Washington and Boston College
St John's over Nebraska and Oregon St
Butler over Ohio St
Marquette over LSU
Georgetown and DePaul with nothing yet

very underwhelming so far.

right now best wins of the year for Xavier and St John's are AAC teams. If PC can beat Houston- that'd be 3.

Jeez, Steve. It's early in the season. ANYONE you've beaten isn't going to look like a big win at this point. Cincy hasn't beaten anyone--because it's the beginning of December.

I can see saying "it's early in the season--these wins might not look so good in March." But right now, they look just fine.

You're making the McKayla Maroney face because we haven't won anything yet in the NCAAs this year.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 09:04 AM by johnbragg.)
12-05-2017 09:03 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #6
RE: OOC
(12-05-2017 09:03 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-04-2017 09:14 AM)stever20 Wrote:  really so far this year what's the Big East's great OOC wins?
Nova over Tennessee
Xavier over 3-5 Wisconsin, Baylor(who lost back to back games), Cincy(who hasn't beaten anyone)
Seton Hall over 4-4 Indiana, 3-5 Vandy, Texas Tech, Louisville(who lost back to back games and hasn't beaten anyone yet like Cincy)
Creighton- over 5-4 Northwestern, UCLA(best win vs Wisconsin)
Providence- over Washington and Boston College
St John's over Nebraska and Oregon St
Butler over Ohio St
Marquette over LSU
Georgetown and DePaul with nothing yet

very underwhelming so far.

right now best wins of the year for Xavier and St John's are AAC teams. If PC can beat Houston- that'd be 3.

Jeez, Steve. It's early in the season. ANYONE you've beaten isn't going to look like a big win at this point. Cincy hasn't beaten anyone--because it's the beginning of December.

I can see saying "it's early in the season--these wins might not look so good in March." But right now, they look just fine.

You're making the McKayla Maroney face because we haven't won anything yet in the NCAAs this year.

really though outside of maybe Baylor, Louisville, Cincy, and Texas Tech- what's the big wins? You say it's early but are you really counting on Indiana to be a quality win? Or Wisconsin even? Or Ohio St, Boston College? You can generally tell what'll be a good win even by now.
12-05-2017 09:36 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #7
RE: OOC
Here's all the Ken Pom top 100 wins right now for the Big East:
#9 Cincy (X)
#18 Texas Tech (SH)
#24 Tennessee (V)
#25 Baylor (X)
#27 Louisville (SH)
#43 UCLA ©
#45 Wisconsin (X)
#56 Northwestern ©
#59 Ohio St(But)
#68 Vanderbilt (SH)
#72 UCF (SJ)
#79 Indiana (SH)
#85 VCU (Marq)
#87 No Iowa (V)
#94 LSU (Marq)
#98 Boston College (PC)

7 top 50 wins.

To put in comparison, the AAC that all Big East fans despise has 8 top 50 wins currently(and #51).

And the other point is that the Big East only has left 15 OOC games vs top 100 teams.
12-05-2017 09:58 AM
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #8
RE: OOC
Lol at the circular argument when downplaying wins over Baylor and Louisville. They "lost back to back games" because in each case one of the losses was to a Big East team. Otherwise each team would be 6-1 with losses to ranked teams.

Like saying "the Yankees got lucky cuz they played the Indians, who finished the playoffs with 3 straight losses."
12-05-2017 12:14 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #9
RE: OOC
Baylor I'll give you.

Louisville though is 4-2 with absolutely no even decent wins. There's absolutely a big question regarding them right now.

If you really think the OOC schedule has been great, more power to you. 7-11 vs current Ken Pom top 50 teams(and a loss vs #51 as well). Outside of Cincy not even 1 win in the group that you can say with any sort of certainty will be a top 25 win end of the season.
12-05-2017 12:38 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #10
RE: OOC
well Gonzaga probably the best win of the OOC so far I think. Yes, even better than Cincy.
12-05-2017 09:50 PM
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kmdhoya Offline
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Post: #11
RE: OOC
The Big East's overall record through December 10th is 77-18 (81% winning percentage)
The conference's record vs the 5 major football conferences is 19-13.
12-10-2017 09:02 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #12
RE: OOC
to me most impressive for the Big East has been the performance vs the 7 multi bid conferences that will get almost every single at large spot.... going into last week 35/36 projected...
#1 ACC 28-17
#2 Big East 21-14
#3 Big 12 18-13
#4 AAC 16-16
#5 SEC 18-22
#6 Pac 12 13-19
#7 Big Ten 17-30
(oh and before folks complain about the AAC being included, know that if you take the AAC out, the Big East becomes #3 behind the Big 12).

The problem that the Big East has though IMO is that the teams in the 5-8 range aren't set up for tourney possibilities. Only 5 teams right now could finish 9-9 in conference play and feel safe about getting in the tourney- Nova, Xavier, Seton Hall, Creighton, and Butler. St John's depends on who they beat. Providence and Marquette aren't likely at all. And 8-10 you can take out Creighton and Butler as well. (and Georgetown really needs at least 10 or 11 wins to get in with their OOC schedule). This year really looks like it'll be better record wise for the conference, fewer bids, but better bids in the tourney.
12-10-2017 11:25 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: OOC
(12-10-2017 11:25 PM)stever20 Wrote:  to me most impressive for the Big East has been the performance vs the 7 multi bid conferences that will get almost every single at large spot.... going into last week 35/36 projected...
#1 ACC 28-17
#2 Big East 21-14
#3 Big 12 18-13
#4 AAC 16-16
#5 SEC 18-22
#6 Pac 12 13-19
#7 Big Ten 17-30
(oh and before folks complain about the AAC being included, know that if you take the AAC out, the Big East becomes #3 behind the Big 12).

The problem that the Big East has though IMO is that the teams in the 5-8 range aren't set up for tourney possibilities. Only 5 teams right now could finish 9-9 in conference play and feel safe about getting in the tourney- Nova, Xavier, Seton Hall, Creighton, and Butler. St John's depends on who they beat. Providence and Marquette aren't likely at all. And 8-10 you can take out Creighton and Butler as well. (and Georgetown really needs at least 10 or 11 wins to get in with their OOC schedule). This year really looks like it'll be better record wise for the conference, fewer bids, but better bids in the tourney.

So, let me get this straight: last year, your argument was that - despite the league getting 7 bids into the NCAA Tournament - the Big East was still overrated because a majority of the bids were not high and it was unlikely they would advance far into the tournament. This year, you are critiquing the Big East for only having five bids, but still acknowledge that the bids will be high.

01-wingedeagle

It's reasons like this why posters get so frustrated with your logic. Not only are you literally looking for ways to critique and attack the conference - which is truly just bizarre - you are arguing two sides of the same coin in your arguments against the Big East.
12-11-2017 10:02 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #14
RE: OOC
The thing is GW with only 10 teams, it really is mostly an either/or proposition. The conference while it's only right now .023 behind the Big 12, isn't positioned anywhere near as well for getting the big bids.

I've said from day 1, I'd 100% rather have a year like what the Big East looks very possible this year- with 3 uber elite teams, than having the mediocrity that the league had last year where 3rd place team was 10-8. It sets you up MUCH stronger for the tourney. But for some folks, the way the league is trending isn't good though- as getting much more than 5 is going to be really tough. I mean look at the top 3 teams the first 4 years and their conference records(remember 48-6 is what the records would be if they didn't lose to anyone in the 4-10 range)
2014- 4 bids- went 40-14
2015- 6 bids- went 40-14
2016- 5 bids went 42-12
2017- 7 bids- went 37-17

I would be shocked with how good Nova, Xavier, and Seton Hall are if they are worse than 42-12. And frankly, I think 44-45 wins very possible for those 3 teams combined. And that's going to really limit how many teams get in the tourney.
12-11-2017 10:50 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: OOC
(12-11-2017 10:50 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The thing is GW with only 10 teams, it really is mostly an either/or proposition. The conference while it's only right now .023 behind the Big 12, isn't positioned anywhere near as well for getting the big bids.

I've said from day 1, I'd 100% rather have a year like what the Big East looks very possible this year- with 3 uber elite teams, than having the mediocrity that the league had last year where 3rd place team was 10-8. It sets you up MUCH stronger for the tourney. But for some folks, the way the league is trending isn't good though- as getting much more than 5 is going to be really tough. I mean look at the top 3 teams the first 4 years and their conference records(remember 48-6 is what the records would be if they didn't lose to anyone in the 4-10 range)
2014- 4 bids- went 40-14
2015- 6 bids- went 40-14
2016- 5 bids went 42-12
2017- 7 bids- went 37-17

I would be shocked with how good Nova, Xavier, and Seton Hall are if they are worse than 42-12. And frankly, I think 44-45 wins very possible for those 3 teams combined. And that's going to really limit how many teams get in the tourney.

For some folks? You mean like yourself or fans from other inferior conferences?

The league is doing great haha. Not only has it surpassed expectations since reorganizing, it is legitimately and accurately reflected as one of the top basketball conferences in the country by an overwhelming majority of fans, reporters and sports personalities. Even last week, ESPN - the same ESPN that tried to kill the conference -
acknowledged that the Big East was vastly superior to the AAC, and promoted the return of UConn to the conference. No amount of data manipulation can change the fact that the Big East has remained one of the top basketball conferences in the country, and will continue to be one despite the hopes of "some folks".
12-12-2017 10:04 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #16
RE: OOC
The thing is, some people think getting more bids is the true measure of a conference strength. I personally think having "only" 5, but having them seeded the way it looks very reasonable to see this year- is much better for the conference. I think depth is WAY overrated. Give me Big East 2018 over Big East 2017 any day of the week, even if it's only 5 bids to 7 bids last year.
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2017 10:10 AM by stever20.)
12-12-2017 10:09 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #17
RE: OOC
I just love folks who think the ONLY measure of how good a conference is quite frankly is # of teams in the tourney.

Sorry but if Big East got 4 teams in- but they were 1,2,2,9 seeds- I'd take that 100% over 7 mediocre bids like last year. This would go down to me as the best Big East season since realignment by a wide margin.
12-13-2017 02:30 PM
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kmdhoya Offline
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Post: #18
RE: OOC
Bad day for the Big East going 1-4. Seton Hall and Georgetown blow late leads to Rutgers and Syracuse.
12-16-2017 07:24 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #19
RE: OOC
yeah, but end of the day pretty meaningless. Nova, Xavier, Seton Hall, and Creighton well positioned. Butler was likely going to need 9 conference wins regardless. Georgetown is pretty much doa. DePaul same thing. Today really doesn't change a thing for me looking at the conference long term this year.
12-17-2017 01:00 AM
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Ole Blue Offline
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Post: #20
RE: OOC
Very frustrating game against Rutgers. I don't understand why Willard insists on rotating 4 bench players into the game when we have a 10+ point lead. Every time he did that, the lead evaporated. If you're going to rotate, do it a couple at a time - not the entire team!!
12-17-2017 01:56 PM
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