We are trying to mainstream every student onto one educational path. Half the students are bored because what they are learning is beneath them, and the other half are frustrated because it's over their heads. And all of them are spending too much time as science projects for the social engineers and not enough time learning the essentials. Critical thinking is learning how to think, not being bombarded with what to think.

Why are these results surprising in that context? How and why would you expect a different result?

We need a complete reboot. Give teachers more money and put them back in charge of their classrooms. Cut out about 90% of the social engineering overhead. And copy best practices from the education systems that spend half as much as we do to produce better results.

(11-26-2017 09:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We are trying to mainstream every student onto one educational path. Half the students are bored because what they are learning is beneath them, and the other half are frustrated because it's over their heads. And all of them are spending too much time as science projects for the social engineers and not enough time learning the essentials. Critical thinking is learning how to think, not being bombarded with what to think.

Why are these results surprising in that context? How and why would you expect a different result?

We need a complete reboot. Give teachers more money and put them back in charge of their classrooms. Cut out about 90% of the social engineering overhead. And copy best practices from the education systems that spend half as much as we do to produce better results.

I agree teachers need more control of their classrooms (not going to happen with today's helicopter parents) and should be teaching basics not social engineering (again not going to happen because the DoE and Teachers Union support the Democrats and their progressive agenda)

...however...

Teachers work 3/4 of the year and the national average teacher's salary is $56,300. If they worked year round that average salary would be $74800.

Teachers get all of June, July and most of August off. In addition to summers off they get lots of holidays throughout the school year as well as a long Christmas and Spring break.

And don't give me they put in so many hours working at home grading papers etc...most professional people regularly take work home.

If teachers want more money than they are currently earning then maybe they should work year round?

(11-26-2017 09:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We are trying to mainstream every student onto one educational path. Half the students are bored because what they are learning is beneath them, and the other half are frustrated because it's over their heads. And all of them are spending too much time as science projects for the social engineers and not enough time learning the essentials. Critical thinking is learning how to think, not being bombarded with what to think.

Why are these results surprising in that context? How and why would you expect a different result?

We need a complete reboot. Give teachers more money and put them back in charge of their classrooms. Cut out about 90% of the social engineering overhead. And copy best practices from the education systems that spend half as much as we do to produce better results.

XACLY!

would it be difficult to map??? absolutely......

however, if that doesn't happen, kiss the USD goodbye in the future as the global dominating force.....

we'll simply revert back to fighting for food and land......that version would be really ugly

#22ndcenturygoldrush

(11-24-2017 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Now, she simply calls the police and has the kids arrested--1st grade.

Please for the love of God find an arrest report for that and share it!

(11-24-2017 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We'd be better off as a society if we just made school optional and let an element waste away.

Yea except those people will still have voting rights. We already have a bunch of under-educated people voting on things they have no comprehension of... do you really want to make that worse?

(11-24-2017 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  My best friend's wife is a teacher in an inner-city school in Nashville and deals with this on a regular basis.

The kids are largely unteachable. She has been bitten, hit, punched, spit on, etc. Oh, and told that "mama told me not to like white people." The number of little bastards with twisted racial outlooks in those schools would be hilarious if it wasn't alarming. She has had plenty of kids that refuse to touch a pen or piece of paper after she has because "a white person touched it."

The districts are powerless.

Responsibility lies with the parents but the parents are useless so there is nothing that can be done.

Now, she simply calls the police and has the kids arrested--1st grade.

We'd be better off as a society if we just made school optional and let an element waste away.

Nah, we need to have schools that are university tracks and schools that are vocational tracks and the university track you have to test into. In the lower grades group kids by similar abilities through grade school.

The government has mandated that almost all kids be mainstreamed into the regular classrooms. The public education model was never set up for what they are tasked with today.

Remove the kids that have emotional issues that are continually disruptive and they go to a special school set up for problem kids.

We as a country aren't willing to do any of the above - yet (maybe never). It doesn't fit with the hyper PC culture and everyone is a special snowflake mentality of today.

(11-26-2017 10:14 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 09:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We are trying to mainstream every student onto one educational path. Half the students are bored because what they are learning is beneath them, and the other half are frustrated because it's over their heads. And all of them are spending too much time as science projects for the social engineers and not enough time learning the essentials. Critical thinking is learning how to think, not being bombarded with what to think.

Why are these results surprising in that context? How and why would you expect a different result?

We need a complete reboot. Give teachers more money and put them back in charge of their classrooms. Cut out about 90% of the social engineering overhead. And copy best practices from the education systems that spend half as much as we do to produce better results.

I agree teachers need more control of their classrooms (not going to happen with today's helicopter parents) and should be teaching basics not social engineering (again not going to happen because the DoE and Teachers Union support the Democrats and their progressive agenda)

...however...

Teachers work 3/4 of the year and the national average teacher's salary is $56,300. If they worked year round that average salary would be $74800.

Teachers get all of June, July and most of August off. In addition to summers off they get lots of holidays throughout the school year as well as a long Christmas and Spring break.

And don't give me they put in so many hours working at home grading papers etc...most professional people regularly take work home.

If teachers want more money than they are currently earning then maybe they should work year round?

Agreed. My SIL is an 8th grade history teacher here and, according to what I've witnessed, she never brings stuff home. They have a 90 minute period every day for planning/grading, and unless you're making them write essays, you can easily burn through a fill in the blank test in 2 minutes or less.

For the 36 weeks a year that they work they're adequately compensated IMHO.

(11-26-2017 08:11 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  My best friend's wife is a teacher in an inner-city school in Nashville and deals with this on a regular basis.

The kids are largely unteachable. She has been bitten, hit, punched, spit on, etc. Oh, and told that "mama told me not to like white people." The number of little bastards with twisted racial outlooks in those schools would be hilarious if it wasn't alarming. She has had plenty of kids that refuse to touch a pen or piece of paper after she has because "a white person touched it."

The districts are powerless.

Responsibility lies with the parents but the parents are useless so there is nothing that can be done.

Now, she simply calls the police and has the kids arrested--1st grade.

We'd be better off as a society if we just made school optional and let an element waste away.

Nah, we need to have schools that are university tracks and schools that are vocational tracks and the university track you have to test into. In the lower grades group kids by similar abilities through grade school.

The government has mandated that almost all kids be mainstreamed into the regular classrooms. The public education model was never set up for what they are tasked with today.

Remove the kids that have emotional issues that are continually disruptive and they go to a special school set up for problem kids.

We as a country aren't willing to do any of the above - yet (maybe never). It doesn't fit with the hyper PC culture and everyone is a special snowflake mentality of today.

We used to have that...it was called Reform School.
The threat of being sent to Reform School was a powerful deterrent when I was a kid. Now the kids that belong in Reform School are kept at the regular school and disrupt classes for everyone else all day long.

(11-26-2017 08:29 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:11 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  My best friend's wife is a teacher in an inner-city school in Nashville and deals with this on a regular basis.

The kids are largely unteachable. She has been bitten, hit, punched, spit on, etc. Oh, and told that "mama told me not to like white people." The number of little bastards with twisted racial outlooks in those schools would be hilarious if it wasn't alarming. She has had plenty of kids that refuse to touch a pen or piece of paper after she has because "a white person touched it."

The districts are powerless.

Responsibility lies with the parents but the parents are useless so there is nothing that can be done.

Now, she simply calls the police and has the kids arrested--1st grade.

We'd be better off as a society if we just made school optional and let an element waste away.

Nah, we need to have schools that are university tracks and schools that are vocational tracks and the university track you have to test into. In the lower grades group kids by similar abilities through grade school.

The government has mandated that almost all kids be mainstreamed into the regular classrooms. The public education model was never set up for what they are tasked with today.

Remove the kids that have emotional issues that are continually disruptive and they go to a special school set up for problem kids.

We as a country aren't willing to do any of the above - yet (maybe never). It doesn't fit with the hyper PC culture and everyone is a special snowflake mentality of today.

We used to have that...it was called Reform School.
The threat of being sent to Reform School was a powerful deterrent when I was a kid. Now the kids that belong in Reform School are kept at the regular school and disrupt classes for everyone else all day long.

Yep. I know it's not a popular thought, but sometimes "what used to be done" worked.....

(11-26-2017 09:00 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:29 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:11 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  My best friend's wife is a teacher in an inner-city school in Nashville and deals with this on a regular basis.

The kids are largely unteachable. She has been bitten, hit, punched, spit on, etc. Oh, and told that "mama told me not to like white people." The number of little bastards with twisted racial outlooks in those schools would be hilarious if it wasn't alarming. She has had plenty of kids that refuse to touch a pen or piece of paper after she has because "a white person touched it."

The districts are powerless.

Responsibility lies with the parents but the parents are useless so there is nothing that can be done.

Now, she simply calls the police and has the kids arrested--1st grade.

We'd be better off as a society if we just made school optional and let an element waste away.

Nah, we need to have schools that are university tracks and schools that are vocational tracks and the university track you have to test into. In the lower grades group kids by similar abilities through grade school.

The government has mandated that almost all kids be mainstreamed into the regular classrooms. The public education model was never set up for what they are tasked with today.

Remove the kids that have emotional issues that are continually disruptive and they go to a special school set up for problem kids.

We as a country aren't willing to do any of the above - yet (maybe never). It doesn't fit with the hyper PC culture and everyone is a special snowflake mentality of today.

We used to have that...it was called Reform School.
The threat of being sent to Reform School was a powerful deterrent when I was a kid. Now the kids that belong in Reform School are kept at the regular school and disrupt classes for everyone else all day long.

Yep. I know it's not a popular thought, but sometimes "what used to be done" worked.....

Yep. In addition to bringing back reform school for kids who are out of control discipline problems...

we should also reconsider the concept that biological parents are always best. Social workers bend over backwards to keep kids with their parent(s). If the parent is a repeated loser, who even with intervention can't get straightened out...alcoholic, drug addicted, abusive, neglecting...kids in those situations would do better in an orphanage where they get food, clothing, shelter, structure, go to school, do their homework, etc. Keeping a kid with a loser parent pretty much ensures the kid's life will be ruined too.

(11-26-2017 08:29 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  We used to have that...it was called Reform School.
The threat of being sent to Reform School was a powerful deterrent when I was a kid. Now the kids that belong in Reform School are kept at the regular school and disrupt classes for everyone else all day long.

We actually still have them. They are now called "Alternative Academies" but it's where the bad kids get sent.

It seems to work as it isolates the worst of the worst, but the school district has been accused of being racist because it was moved into an old Rosenwald that was made surplus by the building of two new elementary schools and was slated for sale. Instead they renovated it to bring it up to code and created an Alternative Academy there in a now decent facility without having to build a brand new facility and they are racist?

(11-23-2017 08:58 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 08:08 AM)Crebman Wrote:  The 1st grade teacher reporting that a 6/7 year old "held her against her will" seems a bit of hyperbole.

Yeah, that's what I think too; unless it is one of those situations where the teacher feels she's not allowed to lay a finger on a student even if the student is touching her.

And that is exactly what we face.

I work in a high school for troubled teens are we are told that we cannot restrain them even if they are attacking us.

Some of these boys are over 6 feet tall and weigh over 200 pounds but God forbid if we try and defend ourselves if we are attacked.

Welcome to public school.

(11-23-2017 05:34 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 04:53 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Bring back corporal discipline and this stuff will stop.

What are you basing that on?

It certainly worked in my elementary school. Most teachers had their paddles hanging next to the chalkboard. I don't remember many teachers having paddles in junior high, but the principal who was a giant of a man, walked the hall with a paddle sometimes. Getting in trouble in junior high often meant at least 2 days of custodial work picking up trash and mopping hallways.

My son taught middle school for a semester....

Kids knew what they could get away with and the worst offender's parents did as well.

I was always more scared of getting home than anything they did in school. A simple threat to call my parents was all it took to keep me in line.