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Hey Coach, I told you man. It's W&M. No way would we kill them. thats why I don't go there. Always a bad experience, even when we won. And for everyone complaining about the ticket windows. It's been that way for decades.

Onward. Win Monday but then I think VCU will kill us, what with the schedule they have played, they have seen a lot. ACC, big ten and Pac 10 already. Plus I give there home court at least a six point advantage. Long season, but last night sure didn't help.

(11-25-2017 10:28 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I won't quit on the kids until they quit... And clearly they haven't.

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There are very few "rules" for what it takes to be a fan. In my view, this is one of them. Well said, Ever.

It's a different equation when it comes to the coaching staff. Jeff Jones and company are paid to turn those player efforts into results. Fans are perfectly within their rights to grouse at a coaching staff when results don't meet expectations (even unrealistic expectations).

The problem that I have with the "season is over" comments on this thread is that I'm not sure what coach-related "expectations" weren't met yesterday. That looked to me like a very well-coached, very well-played game -- one in which we came up short to a team that caught fire. I just don't think that this is the game for anyone to be drawing adverse conclusions regarding JJ's coaching abilities.

None of this means that we should be happy about losing yet again to W&M. It took me a few seconds when I awoke this morning to remember why I was in such a bad mood. And if we stumble against a team that does not play as well as W&M did last night, because we can't hit free throws or can't make lay ups or whatever reason, then that will be the time to lay a turd on JJ's doorstep.

But until that happens, there's still plenty to be excited about this team and season. Tomorrow night's game is a warm up (at least it had better be). After that, we still have some good, challenging games ahead of us -- particularly in conference against WKU, La. Tech. and Empty Sue.

(11-26-2017 08:17 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-25-2017 10:28 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I won't quit on the kids until they quit... And clearly they haven't.

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There are very few "rules" for what it takes to be a fan. In my view, this is one of them. Well said, Ever.

It's a different equation when it comes to the coaching staff. Jeff Jones and company are paid to turn those player efforts into results. Fans are perfectly within their rights to grouse at a coaching staff when results don't meet expectations (even unrealistic expectations).

The problem that I have with the "season is over" comments on this thread is that I'm not sure what coach-related "expectations" weren't met yesterday. That looked to me like a very well-coached, very well-played game -- one in which we came up short to a team that caught fire. I just don't think that this is the game for anyone to be drawing adverse conclusions regarding JJ's coaching abilities.

None of this means that we should be happy about losing yet again to W&M. It took me a few seconds when I awoke this morning to remember why I was in such a bad mood. And if we stumble against a team that does not play as well as W&M did last night, because we can't hit free throws or can't make lay ups or whatever reason, then that will be the time to lay a turd on JJ's doorstep.

But until that happens, there's still plenty to be excited about this team and season. Tomorrow night's game is a warm up (at least it had better be). After that, we still have some good, challenging games ahead of us -- particularly in conference against WKU, La. Tech. and Empty Sue.

Well said

(11-26-2017 07:54 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 12:24 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(11-25-2017 11:20 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  

(11-25-2017 10:18 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Just got back. I thought it was our best offensive game of the year....unfortunately That did not include free throws. WM couldn't miss. Defensive effort was there for most of the game....especially after the first 5 mins of feeling them out. We had a few sloppy turnovers that hurt us. Those saying that this is on jj...sorry bit I believe you are mistaken this time. WM played a great game and shot 83 percent from 3 in the second half....most of those were well contested shots. Someone said no adjustments....again I believe you are mistaken....i definitely saw mixed defenses and lineups. They just couldn't miss. Sometimes you just have to tip the cap.

We lost the game with sloppy turnovers and free throws. End of story.

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We played man all game. Also we never pressed, or showed token pressure to take time off the shot clock, nor did we ever try to speed them up. Sorry but you are mistaken. We never used our athleticism to get after them. Instead we let them play their game offensively. They hit a few shots and got more and more comfortable.

That is simply not true. We were in a zone for several minutes in the first half. I am not stupid. I know what a zone defense looks like.

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We didn’t play one second of zone.

Again. Patently false. I was there. With others. We all saw it and even talked about it as it was happening.

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(11-26-2017 12:30 AM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  Glad everyone seemed to enjoy our FB watch party! With the results of both games maybe I should never ever do another one!

I do need to correct one statement that keeps be made by a few of the posters....
JJ was hired in April of 2013 therefore he has coached four seasons!!! This is the first year he has all of his own players.

Tonight's BB game was a fluke of all flukes. We shoot out our heads and they shoot even better! The FT bugaboo rears it's ugle head after pretty good FT shooting in Charleston. I wonder if some of the posters that are obsessive about our recent losses to W&M are newer fans. For like 30 years we won almost every game we played against the Mother Ship.

While I'm complaining. It's amazing to me that according to some posters the only "good" outcome of a season for a BB coach is to get a ticket to the NCAA's. Only 20% o the 347 Div 1 teams make it to the NCAA's but 60% of FBS schools go to a bowl. so why not call for the firing of FB coaches that don't get to bowl every year....it's three times as easy to do that than a BB coach going to the NCAA's.

It's not a file when it happens every year.

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(11-26-2017 09:00 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 07:54 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 12:24 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(11-25-2017 11:20 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  

(11-25-2017 10:18 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Just got back. I thought it was our best offensive game of the year....unfortunately That did not include free throws. WM couldn't miss. Defensive effort was there for most of the game....especially after the first 5 mins of feeling them out. We had a few sloppy turnovers that hurt us. Those saying that this is on jj...sorry bit I believe you are mistaken this time. WM played a great game and shot 83 percent from 3 in the second half....most of those were well contested shots. Someone said no adjustments....again I believe you are mistaken....i definitely saw mixed defenses and lineups. They just couldn't miss. Sometimes you just have to tip the cap.

We lost the game with sloppy turnovers and free throws. End of story.

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We played man all game. Also we never pressed, or showed token pressure to take time off the shot clock, nor did we ever try to speed them up. Sorry but you are mistaken. We never used our athleticism to get after them. Instead we let them play their game offensively. They hit a few shots and got more and more comfortable.

That is simply not true. We were in a zone for several minutes in the first half. I am not stupid. I know what a zone defense looks like.

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We didn’t play one second of zone.

Again. Patently false. I was there. With others. We all saw it and even talked about it as it was happening.

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I watched the game again...yes in the first half we did play about 3 minutes of match up zone which was effective except we gave up a 3 and Jones pulled us out. 2nd half we did not change a thing and played man the whole time. We didn't press the entire game nor did we play set up token pressure. My point still stands. W&M was too comfortable running their offense. BT was a master of changing up D's. Instead of chasing them around and defending back cuts the entire shot clock we could have easily done something different defensive schemes to make them have to adjust.

Seriously, can someone explain how our basketball teams, year after year suck so bad at free throws? Everyone has a point of view about why we lost last night and all are correct. My point of view says 4-11 or whatever it was, cost us the game and this has been an ongoing issue for years. People say "the players take the shots, not the coach" of course this is literally true, but the coach doesn't seem capable of coaching ( or recruiting) players who can shoot. That is on JJ.
Every aspect of last nights game is understandable to me, from WM being red hot to making a one in a hundred shot at the end. SHi. happens. What is not an exception and has not been unusual for years now is our inexplicable inability to make free throws when we need them. Free throws cost us that game, nothing more or less.
We're simply not good enough to overcome being so bad at an important part of the game and expect to go anywhere in March.

We may be one of the most out of touch fan bases in the country. We just played a team that shot 52% of their shots from three and hit 60% of them. Shooting 60% from there is the equivalent of shooting 90% from two. Most of those shots were contested threes or shots taken 3-4 feet behind the line. We played a very good game and still lost. Yes, we maybe left five points at the free throw line, but we dominated or played respectably well in every other facet. If you're expecting a team to come out and beat their average in EVERY statistical category every night you need to stop posting on these boards until you know more about both math and sports.

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I'm not too mad we lost that game. I think our team last season wouldn't have had a lead at any point last night with the way WM was shooting.

(11-26-2017 10:07 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  I'm not too mad we lost that game. I think our team last season wouldn't have had a lead at any point last night with the way WM was shooting.

where are we when
having a lead at some point in a game a against william and mary
is a measuring stick for progress

(11-26-2017 09:54 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  We may be one of the most out of touch fan bases in the country. We just played a team that shot 52% of their shots from three and hit 60% of them. Shooting 60% from there is the equivalent of shooting 90% from two. Most of those shots were contested threes or shots taken 3-4 feet behind the line. We played a very good game and still lost. Yes, we maybe left five points at the free throw line, but we dominated or played respectably well in every other facet. If you're expecting a team to come out and beat their average in EVERY statistical category every night you need to stop posting on these boards until you know more about both math and sports.

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Good teams find ways to win those games. Especially, when the opposing team is significantly less talented.

(11-26-2017 10:13 AM)jasdf Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 10:07 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  I'm not too mad we lost that game. I think our team last season wouldn't have had a lead at any point last night with the way WM was shooting.

where are we when
having a lead at some point in a game a against william and mary
is a measuring stick for progress

Sorry, I'm just thinking about the one game and not the entire program. If I am going to try and enjoy this basketball season, then I need to pace myself.

(11-26-2017 09:54 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  We may be one of the most out of touch fan bases in the country. We just played a team that shot 52% of their shots from three and hit 60% of them. Shooting 60% from there is the equivalent of shooting 90% from two. Most of those shots were contested threes or shots taken 3-4 feet behind the line. We played a very good game and still lost. Yes, we maybe left five points at the free throw line, but we dominated or played respectably well in every other facet. If you're expecting a team to come out and beat their average in EVERY statistical category every night you need to stop posting on these boards until you know more about both math and sports.

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No maybe about it. It cost us the game. A fundamental weakness in this team and most editions before it. Not a statistical fluke. If we can't beat a miserable ft average, something is wrong.

(11-26-2017 09:02 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 12:30 AM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  Glad everyone seemed to enjoy our FB watch party! With the results of both games maybe I should never ever do another one!

I do need to correct one statement that keeps be made by a few of the posters....
JJ was hired in April of 2013 therefore he has coached four seasons!!! This is the first year he has all of his own players.

Tonight's BB game was a fluke of all flukes. We shoot out our heads and they shoot even better! The FT bugaboo rears it's ugle head after pretty good FT shooting in Charleston. I wonder if some of the posters that are obsessive about our recent losses to W&M are newer fans. For like 30 years we won almost every game we played against the Mother Ship.

While I'm complaining. It's amazing to me that according to some posters the only "good" outcome of a season for a BB coach is to get a ticket to the NCAA's. Only 20% o the 347 Div 1 teams make it to the NCAA's but 60% of FBS schools go to a bowl. so why not call for the firing of FB coaches that don't get to bowl every year....it's three times as easy to do that than a BB coach going to the NCAA's.

It's not a file when it happens every year.

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You only need to finish .500 to go to a bowl. That is a joke of a goal and frankly why I cannot get into football as deep as bball.

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(11-26-2017 10:29 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 09:54 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  We may be one of the most out of touch fan bases in the country. We just played a team that shot 52% of their shots from three and hit 60% of them. Shooting 60% from there is the equivalent of shooting 90% from two. Most of those shots were contested threes or shots taken 3-4 feet behind the line. We played a very good game and still lost. Yes, we maybe left five points at the free throw line, but we dominated or played respectably well in every other facet. If you're expecting a team to come out and beat their average in EVERY statistical category every night you need to stop posting on these boards until you know more about both math and sports.

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No maybe about it. It cost us the game. A fundamental weakness in this team and most editions before it. Not a statistical fluke. If we can't beat a miserable ft average, something is wrong.

A lot of things cost us the game. Mediocre shooting in the 1st half cost us the chance to put it away early. Had a lot of bonehead turnovers early in the 2nd half. Porter and BJ were left rotting on the bench for way too long while they made their run and took the lead. Maybe we make a few of those FTs if Porter and BJ are in there taking them instead of Caver and Brandan. If we had Vassor kick Cohn in the knee during warm ups, we would have won.

If you lose and don't shoot 100% with 0 turnovers, you can always come up with reasons.

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(11-26-2017 10:15 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 09:54 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  We may be one of the most out of touch fan bases in the country. We just played a team that shot 52% of their shots from three and hit 60% of them. Shooting 60% from there is the equivalent of shooting 90% from two. Most of those shots were contested threes or shots taken 3-4 feet behind the line. We played a very good game and still lost. Yes, we maybe left five points at the free throw line, but we dominated or played respectably well in every other facet. If you're expecting a team to come out and beat their average in EVERY statistical category every night you need to stop posting on these boards until you know more about both math and sports.

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Good teams find ways to win those games. Especially, when the opposing team is significantly less talented.

GREAT teams lose when lesser talented teams shoot lights out from three all the time. Watch just one NCAA tournament for an abundance of evidence.

Also, we're not THAT much more talented than them. Knight would be a star in our frontcourt and Cohn is every bit as good as Caver (our best player). Quit pretending we're Kentucky and your expectations and blood pressure will likely fall in line.

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I'm afraid that a growing number in our fan base suffer from the "we think that we are better than we are" syndrome. I think that a bit of program "self reflection" is in order. There is a reason that we have lost 6 of the prior 7 games to the 'Tribe'. They are historically better prepared mentally than we are. Ditto our recent performances vs a growing number of our 'peer' state schools. I think the difference is between the ears, something that we do not excel at. Enough said...

I suggested last season jj bring in the counselor that wilder brought in last year, and she stay on both staffs retainer.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

(11-26-2017 11:13 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  I suggested last season jj bring in the counselor that wilder brought in last year, and she stay on both staffs retainer.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

I would say go outside of that lady........ football used her this year and i don’t think she is the answer

The two things that bothered me the most while watching the game last night were -

1). Our gross inability to make free throws. Even the people announcing the game were saying that the best defense against ODU was the "Hack-a-Shak" defense because as a team we couldn't shoot them. Ironically, although I don't know exactly how many times he went to the line last night, I remember a player who some have called our "worst shooter" (Haynes) went to the line and knocked in 2 for 2. Hitting free throws is pretty much a mandatory skill for a point guard, and one that ours has yet to master.

2). The other thing that bothered me is that when a team is beating you like a drum in some area offensively, why don't you change things up on them to give them a different look, to change the rhythm of their offensive sets? I thought the same thing last night that a few others have indicated on here about switching to a zone, or a full court press, or a half court trap even if it were just for a 3 or 4 minute stretch. Basically ODU remained in its man-to-man regardless of how many successful 3's W&M made. If a football team was making a living by running right up the middle again and again against you wouldn't you alter your defense to try to stop that? W&M scored about 50 points in the second half against us and we never adjusted defensively.