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Will 2018 be better?
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Will 2018 be better?
Well, of course. They were recruited by a guy who "coached". lol
 
11-21-2017 01:54 PM
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Romell Shorter Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Will 2018 be better?
Point of Reference

Minnesota 2016 Record: 9-4

Little Butchie, aka PJ Fleck, rowed his boat thru Lake Superior with a bunch of his WMU coaches on board. Started the season 3-0 but will finish 2-7!

Inherited better talent. Complete system and coaching staff in place. Should have gotten better as the season progressed. Northwestern posted the 39-0 shutout last weekend, and Wisky might bagel them again this weekend.

Oh! Fleck might bolt after one season for a better job (see reference above).
 
11-21-2017 04:56 PM
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Banter Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-21-2017 04:56 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  Point of Reference

Minnesota 2016 Record: 9-4

Little Butchie, aka PJ Fleck, rowed his boat thru Lake Superior with a bunch of his WMU coaches on board. Started the season 3-0 but will finish 2-7!

Inherited better talent. Complete system and coaching staff in place. Should have gotten better as the season progressed. Northwestern posted the 39-0 shutout last weekend, and Wisky might bagel them again this weekend.

Oh! Fleck might bolt after one season for a better job (see reference above).
Is flecks name really being thrown around for openings already?

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11-21-2017 05:51 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-21-2017 05:51 PM)Banter Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 04:56 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  Point of Reference

Minnesota 2016 Record: 9-4

Little Butchie, aka PJ Fleck, rowed his boat thru Lake Superior with a bunch of his WMU coaches on board. Started the season 3-0 but will finish 2-7!

Inherited better talent. Complete system and coaching staff in place. Should have gotten better as the season progressed. Northwestern posted the 39-0 shutout last weekend, and Wisky might bagel them again this weekend.

Oh! Fleck might bolt after one season for a better job (see reference above).
Is flecks name really being thrown around for openings already?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using CSNbbs mobile app

The dude cheated on his wife and mother of his children with a donor's wife, then brought divorce and custody proceedings in Illinois so he could keep all of his assets and take full custody of his kids...you're really surprised hed leave Minnesota after a year?
 
11-21-2017 06:15 PM
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Fubar Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-20-2017 03:17 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 03:06 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  The problem with our expectations vs reality this year was that we thought that the problem was simply coaching. I don't think we understood the absolute disregard Tubs had for our program. He didn't recruit and he didn't establish a culture of anything.

The light has been shined in the dark corners of our program now. Reality: We didn't have a very good team no matter if Bear Bryant was pacing the sidelines. Unfortunately, in football, that means a multiple year rebuild because young players usually can't come in and fix things right away. I don't know if Fickell is the answer, but I do know that his question wasn't answered this year. The only thing we found out this year is that our squad was neglected for a long time. I think there might be talent in that locker room, but they weren't developed for years. You can't make that up in 1 year.

Next year should be progress, but more like .500 +/- 1 with better visuals. This simply isn't a quick fix.

F*** Tuberville so much for what he did to this program. It's a crime.

Yeah... But...

The painful reality that there hasn't even been visible progress from this staff, with these kids, on the BASICS of the game. So, I know you're not going to ever get Carter Jacobs to look and play like Darrell Revis, but on things like stupid, ticky-tack penalties...I think most of us would like (and we expect) to see a reduction in those type of things. Especially, when the Head Coach says things over the "bye week" like "We're going to do 'discipline' through the end of the season..."

Carter Jacobs... sucks. Got it. Hayden Moore... sucks. Got it. We have a bunch of slow, stone-hands at WR. Got it. We don't have a PK... Got it. The OLine is undersized and under-powered. Got it. And I could, sadly, go on and on. But you've got to do something with these guys.

It's not so much the record alone that is frustrating. It is HOW they are losing that is really frustrating. Butch went 4-8 that first season, but that team was fundamentally sound...if inept. I'm not seeing the soundness here. Is that the "Previous Coach's"* problem? Yes...but...Coach Fickell has been here now for almost a year.

You only get to blame "the last guy"* for so long.


(* Tommy F****** Tuberville)

If we’re getting better game by game but still have less talent, and the competing getting better game by game at about the same pace or better with better talent, what makes you think week 11 will look appreciably better than week 3?
 
11-26-2017 08:03 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-21-2017 11:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 10:52 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 09:27 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  That stellar 2015 class was the canary in the coalmine. Copeland and Lewis are about the only two contributing. Think most of the 28 guys in that class are no longer here or will not be here for much longer. Which is not necessarily a bad thing when you have a new staff turning a roster over asap.

https://247sports.com/college/cincinnati...ll/Commits

Yep...that one right there should be rolling in the two deep with multiple contributors right now you would think. And here's where they are now...

Trail, buried below a mile of depth chart
Lewis, contributing
Copeland, contributing
Holloman, contributing...at Eastern Michigan
Draper, out of program
Mallory, out of program
Clements, "contributing"
Kinard, graduated
Jenkinson, out of program
Bates, two position switches and an injury...
Boose, buried and won't be unburied for the rest of his career here
Wright, contributing
Oglesby, on roster but hasn't shown out yet
Labady, never made it here
Neal, hasn't seen the field
Cobb, never made it here
Ashworth, gone
McGarr, on the OL two deep but hasn't seen the field...so...yeah...
Deguara, contributing
Angulo, may as well not be on the roster
Murray, graduated
Armagost, left the team
Ray, graduated
Minor, contributing
Johnson, contributing
Tongamoa, graduated
L. Wright, gone
Jhavontae Dean, wearing quite a few turnover chains at Miami.

So 7/25 are even contributing to the team, two of them are graduating after this year, 5 others already have graduated, and only 5 others are even on our roster. That means there are only 12/25 rostered from a class that should be Juniors and RS Sophomores which is the core area of contribution. That's horrendous, and a significant part of why our team is in general disarray. I mean hell, look at our OL! Mallory, Armagost, Ashworth, and McGarr were all OL guys in that class and none of them are even here anymore, with the exception of McGarr who may as well not be since I haven't even seen his name on the bench this year.

Can we use your quotation marks on a few of those other ones who are "contributing"? 03-lmfao

I did forget Minor was in that class and was either a 3 year JUCO or redshirted.

Just an fyi that Caleb Ashworth has landed at Delaware. I'm not sure if he was a grad transfer or not, but I was surprised to see him listed at just 6-3 250 in the article.
 
02-08-2018 10:15 PM
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rosewater Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(02-08-2018 10:15 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 11:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 10:52 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 09:27 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  That stellar 2015 class was the canary in the coalmine. Copeland and Lewis are about the only two contributing. Think most of the 28 guys in that class are no longer here or will not be here for much longer. Which is not necessarily a bad thing when you have a new staff turning a roster over asap.

https://247sports.com/college/cincinnati...ll/Commits

Yep...that one right there should be rolling in the two deep with multiple contributors right now you would think. And here's where they are now...

Trail, buried below a mile of depth chart
Lewis, contributing
Copeland, contributing
Holloman, contributing...at Eastern Michigan
Draper, out of program
Mallory, out of program
Clements, "contributing"
Kinard, graduated
Jenkinson, out of program
Bates, two position switches and an injury...
Boose, buried and won't be unburied for the rest of his career here
Wright, contributing
Oglesby, on roster but hasn't shown out yet
Labady, never made it here
Neal, hasn't seen the field
Cobb, never made it here
Ashworth, gone
McGarr, on the OL two deep but hasn't seen the field...so...yeah...
Deguara, contributing
Angulo, may as well not be on the roster
Murray, graduated
Armagost, left the team
Ray, graduated
Minor, contributing
Johnson, contributing
Tongamoa, graduated
L. Wright, gone
Jhavontae Dean, wearing quite a few turnover chains at Miami.

So 7/25 are even contributing to the team, two of them are graduating after this year, 5 others already have graduated, and only 5 others are even on our roster. That means there are only 12/25 rostered from a class that should be Juniors and RS Sophomores which is the core area of contribution. That's horrendous, and a significant part of why our team is in general disarray. I mean hell, look at our OL! Mallory, Armagost, Ashworth, and McGarr were all OL guys in that class and none of them are even here anymore, with the exception of McGarr who may as well not be since I haven't even seen his name on the bench this year.

Can we use your quotation marks on a few of those other ones who are "contributing"? 03-lmfao

I did forget Minor was in that class and was either a 3 year JUCO or redshirted.

Just an fyi that Caleb Ashworth has landed at Delaware. I'm not sure if he was a grad transfer or not, but I was surprised to see him listed at just 6-3 250 in the article.

I always thought that Ashworth looked the part of a big time player. The dude was fast on the edge. Young family, coaching change and a stacked number of defensive ends led to his transfer.
 
02-08-2018 10:27 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-19-2017 07:40 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 06:41 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Yes

This^

Still this ^^^^^
 
02-09-2018 09:37 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-21-2017 10:52 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 09:27 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  That stellar 2015 class was the canary in the coalmine. Copeland and Lewis are about the only two contributing. Think most of the 28 guys in that class are no longer here or will not be here for much longer. Which is not necessarily a bad thing when you have a new staff turning a roster over asap.

https://247sports.com/college/cincinnati...ll/Commits

Yep...that one right there should be rolling in the two deep with multiple contributors right now you would think. And here's where they are now...

Trail, buried below a mile of depth chart
Lewis, contributing
Copeland, contributing
Holloman, contributing...at Eastern Michigan
Draper, out of program
Mallory, out of program
Clements, "contributing"
Kinard, graduated
Jenkinson, out of program
Bates, two position switches and an injury...
Boose, buried and won't be unburied for the rest of his career here
Wright, contributing
Oglesby, on roster but hasn't shown out yet
Labady, never made it here
Neal, hasn't seen the field
Cobb, never made it here
Ashworth, gone
McGarr, on the OL two deep but hasn't seen the field...so...yeah...
Deguara, contributing
Angulo, may as well not be on the roster
Murray, graduated
Armagost, left the team
Ray, graduated
Minor, contributing
Johnson, contributing
Tongamoa, graduated
L. Wright, gone
Jhavontae Dean, wearing quite a few turnover chains at Miami.

So 7/25 are even contributing to the team, two of them are graduating after this year, 5 others already have graduated, and only 5 others are even on our roster. That means there are only 12/25 rostered from a class that should be Juniors and RS Sophomores which is the core area of contribution. That's horrendous, and a significant part of why our team is in general disarray. I mean hell, look at our OL! Mallory, Armagost, Ashworth, and McGarr were all OL guys in that class and none of them are even here anymore, with the exception of McGarr who may as well not be since I haven't even seen his name on the bench this year.

And that class is supposed to be the Senior and RS Junior group of leaders for this upcoming season. Yeesh.
 
02-09-2018 10:11 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(02-09-2018 10:11 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 10:52 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 09:27 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  That stellar 2015 class was the canary in the coalmine. Copeland and Lewis are about the only two contributing. Think most of the 28 guys in that class are no longer here or will not be here for much longer. Which is not necessarily a bad thing when you have a new staff turning a roster over asap.

https://247sports.com/college/cincinnati...ll/Commits

Yep...that one right there should be rolling in the two deep with multiple contributors right now you would think. And here's where they are now...

Trail, buried below a mile of depth chart
Lewis, contributing
Copeland, contributing
Holloman, contributing...at Eastern Michigan
Draper, out of program
Mallory, out of program
Clements, "contributing"
Kinard, graduated
Jenkinson, out of program
Bates, two position switches and an injury...
Boose, buried and won't be unburied for the rest of his career here
Wright, contributing
Oglesby, on roster but hasn't shown out yet
Labady, never made it here
Neal, hasn't seen the field
Cobb, never made it here
Ashworth, gone
McGarr, on the OL two deep but hasn't seen the field...so...yeah...
Deguara, contributing
Angulo, may as well not be on the roster
Murray, graduated
Armagost, left the team
Ray, graduated
Minor, contributing
Johnson, contributing
Tongamoa, graduated
L. Wright, gone
Jhavontae Dean, wearing quite a few turnover chains at Miami.

So 7/25 are even contributing to the team, two of them are graduating after this year, 5 others already have graduated, and only 5 others are even on our roster. That means there are only 12/25 rostered from a class that should be Juniors and RS Sophomores which is the core area of contribution. That's horrendous, and a significant part of why our team is in general disarray. I mean hell, look at our OL! Mallory, Armagost, Ashworth, and McGarr were all OL guys in that class and none of them are even here anymore, with the exception of McGarr who may as well not be since I haven't even seen his name on the bench this year.

And that class is supposed to be the Senior and RS Junior group of leaders for this upcoming season. Yeesh.

Yep...with Minor and LBJ gone, there are only 5 "contributors" from that class still on the roster, and I use quotes because I think Degaura has as many catches as I did from the student section.
 
02-09-2018 11:20 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Will 2018 be better?
The 2014 class, too....Lots graduated or were JUCOS...I don't recall why a lot of the other guys left early but there are only a very small handful remaining in the 5th year class. Only 5 or so in that class, too.

Ja'Merez Bowen, gone
Kevin Mouhon, Obviously contributing
Casey Gladney, JUCO graduated
Hakeem Allonce, JUCO graduated
JJ Pinckney, gone
Marcus Tappan, JUCO graduated
Jarred Evans, JUCO played for a minute after the legal issues went away.
Odell Spencer, gone
Luke Callahan, gone
Hayden Moore, Obviously contributing
Kimoni Fitz, Obviously contributing
Tyrell Gilbert, Obviously contributing
Landon Brazil, gone - didn't know that but I don't see him on the current roster anymore
Ryan Stout, gone
Linden Stephens, graduated
Mike Boone, graduated
Alex Thomas, transferred to the Ohio Correctional League
Chris Ferguson, still here
John Kurtz, transferred to the MAC
Carter Jacobs, graduated
Keith Minor, JUCO graduated
Cortez Broughton, Obviously contributing
Davon Witherspoon, gone
Joel Thompson, gone
Davin Pierce, graduated
 
02-09-2018 11:49 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(02-09-2018 11:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The 2014 class, too....Lots graduated or were JUCOS...I don't recall why a lot of the other guys left early but there are only a very small handful remaining in the 5th year class. Only 5 or so in that class, too.

Ja'Merez Bowen, gone
Kevin Mouhon, Obviously contributing
Casey Gladney, JUCO graduated
Hakeem Allonce, JUCO graduated
JJ Pinckney, gone
Marcus Tappan, JUCO graduated
Jarred Evans, JUCO played for a minute after the legal issues went away.
Odell Spencer, gone
Luke Callahan, gone
Hayden Moore, Obviously contributing
Kimoni Fitz, Obviously contributing
Tyrell Gilbert, Obviously contributing
Landon Brazil, gone - didn't know that but I don't see him on the current roster anymore
Ryan Stout, gone
Linden Stephens, graduated
Mike Boone, graduated
Alex Thomas, transferred to the Ohio Correctional League
Chris Ferguson, still here
John Kurtz, transferred to the MAC
Carter Jacobs, graduated
Keith Minor, JUCO graduated
Cortez Broughton, Obviously contributing
Davon Witherspoon, gone
Joel Thompson, gone
Davin Pierce, graduated

God, Major League is one of my favorite movies 03-lmfao

"What the hell league you been playing in?" - Willie Mays Hayes
"California Penal." - Rick Vaughn
"Never heard of it. How'd you end up playing there?" - Willie Mays Hayes


Honest to god, I don't think I even saw half of those names on the backs of jerseys on the sideline, let alone on the field.
 
02-09-2018 11:55 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Will 2018 be better?
03-lmfao I knew you’d catch that reference.

Yeah, there were a few names in that class I don’t remember ever seeing in uniform.
 
02-09-2018 12:12 PM
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JackieTreehorn Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Will 2018 be better?
Keith Minor wasn't a JUCO and he's still on the roster. I thought Gladney and Tappan(B&E) got kicked off the team and never graduated. Brazile is transferring, although I always see him along with Fitz doing some sort of work at the MBB games over at NKU.
 
02-09-2018 12:36 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Will 2018 be better?
You are right about Keith Minor. I think he moved over to the offensive side and I forgot about him since I have not seen him. The other minor was the LB.


I just looked at the roster....UC only has 13 players listed as a Senior be it true Senior, Redhirt Senior or walk on. That is hard to do.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2018 12:58 PM by rath v2.0.)
02-09-2018 12:41 PM
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ucbandguy Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Will 2018 be better?
You know, it's kind of "funny".
I remember Butch Jones complaining how Brian Kelly had left him without many receivers plus a few other holes in the roster.

Then I remember that golfer complaining about how young his roster was, how few upperclassmen he had, etc. And I remember looking at the roster a couple of years ago and wondering why there seemed so few upperclassmen.

Now it appears that we have something similar, only even worse in numbers. It will take a couple of years to climb out of this, even if retention from this time forward in excellent.

I remember talking to Jim Kelly Sr many years ago before a UC-UL game. He pointed out UL's OL. All of them were 4th and 5th year players. It made a difference that day, as UL literally ran all over us.

One of the things I really liked about Rick Minter is that he had decent player retention and graduation. Yeah, I want to win, but I prefer winning right, and retention is a genuine key. We don't have that right now.
 
02-09-2018 01:05 PM
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robertfoshizzle Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Will 2018 be better?
Looking at that schedule, I could see anywhere from 4-8 wins depending on how things come together. I think 6-6 is a very realistic goal.
 
02-09-2018 01:12 PM
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digibrink Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Will 2018 be better?
It seemed like a lot of these great recruits were coming here for playing time. Get them in, let them learn, and it will payoff in 3 years.
 
02-09-2018 03:59 PM
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daap_bearcat97 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Will 2018 be better?
As Rath so eloquently said "yes." 2018 will be better, but I believe only marginally. 4-8, 5-7, 6-6 are all possibilities. Should be an improvement from 2017, but I do not believe that 9-3 is even remotely in the cards, unless we have 9 teams that take the field against us and forfeit before the games start. Lest not forget that all of teams we play have talent on their teams as well and we were at the bottom of the conference last year. Even 6 wins is not a gimme. I agree that our O-line, QB and LB's are our biggest concerns.
 
02-09-2018 04:37 PM
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Bcatbog Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(02-09-2018 04:37 PM)daap_bearcat97 Wrote:  As Rath so eloquently said "yes." 2018 will be better, but I believe only marginally. 4-8, 5-7, 6-6 are all possibilities. Should be an improvement from 2017, but I do not believe that 9-3 is even remotely in the cards, unless we have 9 teams that take the field against us and forfeit before the games start. Lest not forget that all of teams we play have talent on their teams as well and we were at the bottom of the conference last year. Even 6 wins is not a gimme. I agree that our O-line, QB and LB's are our biggest concerns.

You are forgetting our need of a place kicker. In a German soccer town there must be a way to find a kicker.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2018 04:47 PM by Bcatbog.)
02-09-2018 04:44 PM
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