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Zoran Talley and Iowa State
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Fatalisk Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 01:09 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 12:42 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  It's really not worth talking about. Talley would have found the floor, we would have had more depth, talent, and production.

He's gone, but it's uninformed to argue we're better without him.

If he played 100% of his minutes at the 3, there's a valid argument that we're better off without him. I don't think anyone is making the argument that we're better off without him if he played significant minutes at the 4 (which he definitely would have this year).

(11-14-2017 01:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 12:42 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  It's really not worth talking about. Talley would have found the floor, we would have had more depth, talent, and production.

He's gone, but it's uninformed to argue we're better without him.
No. It's not. He would be playing, and that would hurt us offensively, unless he was playing the 4, which JJ has proven he would not do with regularity.

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I disagree with that, but for the sake of argument, if Caver was mandated to play 100% of his minutes at 5 we'd be better off without him. Why are we discussing nonsense?

We are better with Talley on the roster, that's why he was on scholarship.
11-14-2017 06:05 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #22
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 06:05 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 01:09 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 12:42 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  It's really not worth talking about. Talley would have found the floor, we would have had more depth, talent, and production.

He's gone, but it's uninformed to argue we're better without him.

If he played 100% of his minutes at the 3, there's a valid argument that we're better off without him. I don't think anyone is making the argument that we're better off without him if he played significant minutes at the 4 (which he definitely would have this year).

(11-14-2017 01:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 12:42 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  It's really not worth talking about. Talley would have found the floor, we would have had more depth, talent, and production.

He's gone, but it's uninformed to argue we're better without him.
No. It's not. He would be playing, and that would hurt us offensively, unless he was playing the 4, which JJ has proven he would not do with regularity.

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I disagree with that, but for the sake of argument, if Caver was mandated to play 100% of his minutes at 5 we'd be better off without him. Why are we discussing nonsense?

We are better with Talley on the roster, that's why he was on scholarship.
If Jeff would actually play him at the 4 he would be a great addition. We would have been better last year too.

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11-14-2017 06:09 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 09:55 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Talley had no offense outside of 16'. Haynes can spread the floor which opens up space for Stith and Porter.

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How does Haynes spread the floor? He's a very poor shooter. The ability to score inside 16 feet is better than the lack of ability to score almost anywhere.
11-14-2017 06:49 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 10:20 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Randy H. also does not disappear for spells during games. Zoran T., talented as he is, had a tendency to do so.

Haynes is in no shape a better player than Talley. Haynes disappears for entire games. Randy has the athleticism to get shots up, he has never shown the ability to actually make them.
11-14-2017 06:51 PM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
I disagree. He's streaky but Haynes can shoot it. He didn't convert on all of them but he definitely put it up more than Talley did, even on a foreign court. So just the threat of taking the shot is worth something.
11-14-2017 06:52 PM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
Plus his shot is not nearly as flat as Talley's is.
11-14-2017 06:52 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 06:05 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 01:09 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 12:42 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  It's really not worth talking about. Talley would have found the floor, we would have had more depth, talent, and production.

He's gone, but it's uninformed to argue we're better without him.

If he played 100% of his minutes at the 3, there's a valid argument that we're better off without him. I don't think anyone is making the argument that we're better off without him if he played significant minutes at the 4 (which he definitely would have this year).

(11-14-2017 01:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 12:42 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  It's really not worth talking about. Talley would have found the floor, we would have had more depth, talent, and production.

He's gone, but it's uninformed to argue we're better without him.
No. It's not. He would be playing, and that would hurt us offensively, unless he was playing the 4, which JJ has proven he would not do with regularity.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I disagree with that, but for the sake of argument, if Caver was mandated to play 100% of his minutes at 5 we'd be better off without him. Why are we discussing nonsense?

We are better with Talley on the roster, that's why he was on scholarship.

It really doesn't make any sense at all to be honest. If Talley was on the team, he would start and be the primary go to weapon on offense. He was the only guy on the roster that can create good shots on his own.
11-14-2017 06:53 PM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
C'mon '78. Step on up with the sports science to help these folks out.
11-14-2017 06:53 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 06:52 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I disagree. He's streaky but Haynes can shoot it. He didn't convert on all of them but he definitely put it up more than Talley did, even on a foreign court. So just the threat of taking the shot is worth something.


What are we basing Haynes ability to make shots on? If its practice, I hope that finds a way to translate on the court this year because he hasnt made shots (in games) in the year and 2 games he's been on the squad.
11-14-2017 06:54 PM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
As far as Giles's arguing Talley being the "go to", I don't have a disagreement with that.

But I do think Haynes is better at bringing defenders out. Talley was strongest when he was on the move and could pull up and score it inside the line.
11-14-2017 06:56 PM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.
11-14-2017 06:58 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?
11-14-2017 07:01 PM
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757ODU Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Stop living off numbers and open your eyes. Randy can and will shoot well.

Also, Talley would have impacted Xavier's minutes. With that being the case, I wish Talley the best but I am happy he found a new home.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2017 08:44 AM by 757ODU.)
11-15-2017 08:42 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-15-2017 08:42 AM)757ODU Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Stop living off numbers and open your eyes. Randy can and will shoot well.

Also, Talley would have impacted Xavier's minutes. With that being the case, I wish Talley the best but I am happy he found a new home.

I wish Zoran well. Despite the off-the-court stuff, I really like the kid and want him to succeed. I do think it is a fair criticism, if you want to talk about the fact that he only took 26 three pointers in his career here (and only made 4). A really successful wing has to be some sort of threat from deep.

As for Randy, however, I WANT Randy to be a good shooter. We need him to make shots. But, so far in his career, he is 14/54 from deep. The numbers tell me that, and my eyes tell me he's missing 3 out of every 4 three point shots he's taking. We need him to make shots at a higher clip. It's as simple as that.
11-15-2017 08:58 AM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
Agreed. Haynes definitely needs to be more accurate this year. But he pulled up on almost every open shot at JMU on a foreign court and I think that will bode well when he connects on a few.

As far as Talley, I also wish him the best. That train is unfortunately gone and ODU still has a season to play. But I like some of what I saw the other night (switching to some zone with X up high, Jeff pushing guys to push pace, BJ and Haynes attempting shots with confidence, and our ability to grind on a foreign court without a big game from Caver).

I worry about our lack of frontcourt depth much more than Randy Haynes's performance at the twoo.
11-15-2017 09:12 AM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #36
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 06:52 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I disagree. He's streaky but Haynes can shoot it. He didn't convert on all of them but he definitely put it up more than Talley did, even on a foreign court. So just the threat of taking the shot is worth something.

This is the key. Haynes may not be a great shooter, but he is good enough, and willing enough to attempt, that defenders have to guard him. Nobody even guarded Talley outside of 16 feet.
11-15-2017 09:20 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-15-2017 09:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 06:52 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I disagree. He's streaky but Haynes can shoot it. He didn't convert on all of them but he definitely put it up more than Talley did, even on a foreign court. So just the threat of taking the shot is worth something.

This is the key. Haynes may not be a great shooter, but he is good enough, and willing enough to attempt, that defenders have to guard him. Nobody even guarded Talley outside of 16 feet.

If I'm scouting Haynes, though, I'm not closing out on him until he improves his percentage. If I'm an opposing coach, I'm letting a 25% shooter take all the jump shots he wants.
11-15-2017 09:21 AM
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757ODU Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-15-2017 09:21 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(11-15-2017 09:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 06:52 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I disagree. He's streaky but Haynes can shoot it. He didn't convert on all of them but he definitely put it up more than Talley did, even on a foreign court. So just the threat of taking the shot is worth something.

This is the key. Haynes may not be a great shooter, but he is good enough, and willing enough to attempt, that defenders have to guard him. Nobody even guarded Talley outside of 16 feet.

If I'm scouting Haynes, though, I'm not closing out on him until he improves his percentage. If I'm an opposing coach, I'm letting a 25% shooter take all the jump shots he wants.

As the year goes on, those shots will fall. Just ask Ahmad Caver last year.
11-15-2017 09:22 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
(11-14-2017 06:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 06:05 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 01:09 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 12:42 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  It's really not worth talking about. Talley would have found the floor, we would have had more depth, talent, and production.

He's gone, but it's uninformed to argue we're better without him.

If he played 100% of his minutes at the 3, there's a valid argument that we're better off without him. I don't think anyone is making the argument that we're better off without him if he played significant minutes at the 4 (which he definitely would have this year).

(11-14-2017 01:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(11-14-2017 12:42 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  It's really not worth talking about. Talley would have found the floor, we would have had more depth, talent, and production.

He's gone, but it's uninformed to argue we're better without him.
No. It's not. He would be playing, and that would hurt us offensively, unless he was playing the 4, which JJ has proven he would not do with regularity.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I disagree with that, but for the sake of argument, if Caver was mandated to play 100% of his minutes at 5 we'd be better off without him. Why are we discussing nonsense?

We are better with Talley on the roster, that's why he was on scholarship.

It really doesn't make any sense at all to be honest. If Talley was on the team, he would start and be the primary go to weapon on offense. He was the only guy on the roster that can create good shots on his own.

And as I said before, that would make us a worse team. That is the real reason we are better off without him. If he was complementary player that added depth at the 4 and played a little at the 3 he could benefit the team. If he is the go to scorer, we are a worse team with him. He cannot be relied on to be a go to scorer. He has proven it time and again.
11-15-2017 09:25 AM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Zoran Talley and Iowa State
This thread is stupid. Bunch of guys who never played college ball arguing about if a guy is good enough to play at ODU.

Fact: Haynes can shoot the ball. When he takes good in rhythm shots, he knocks them down. Last year he took a ton of bad shots. This year (in an extremely small sample) he has been taking good shots. If this continues he will be fine.

Fact: Talley is a 3. People may not like It, but that’s his position. Would he have played the 4 this year? Most likely. Lack of depth and the fact that BJ has played there tells you JJ doesn’t have an issue putting another ball handler in that position.

Last i checked Talley is at Iowa State & will most likely be successful. Either wish the guy luck and move on OR don’t wish him luck and move on...... but either way move the f**k on
11-15-2017 09:30 AM
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