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Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
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Tiger1983 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
Calkins did not mention another factor giving Pastner and Calipari a longer honeymoon - success in the post season by their second year. Pastner earned an NCAA bid and Calipari won the NIT in year two of their tenures. In contrast, there is minuscule chance of Tubby matching their feats this season.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 11:22 PM by Tiger1983.)
11-12-2017 11:21 PM
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BealeStreetTiger Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-12-2017 09:56 PM)dcg141 Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:52 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:34 PM)dcg141 Wrote:  Good players get bought, plain and simple. We are no longer buying.

Utter nonsense.

Every top coach has a bag man and a shoe company paying players. Heck some are getting so bold as to letting assistants hand out the money. Every top recruit has his hand out, because they can get paid.

And coaches/staff can get investigated by the FBI

And coaches can get fired like Pitino

And players can get blackballed from college

And universities can get put on probation with fines-ect

Do you know for sure that bagman isn’t setting you up to keep from going to the federal pen for corruption? Could be a sting operation with a party or BBQ, gambling, hookers ….but also with pictures, wires, video, the works.

With the creation of the P5 Pay-To-Play has now become a very dangerous game with consequences that can sadly ruin all involved.
11-13-2017 01:14 AM
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holyterror Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
Dana Kirk would say we're trying to with the Derby with donkeys.
11-13-2017 08:38 AM
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TIGERCITY Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-13-2017 08:38 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Dana Kirk would say we're trying to with the Derby with donkeys.

Wish I could say I laughed my 'ass' off.
11-13-2017 08:47 AM
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holyterror Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-13-2017 08:47 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  
(11-13-2017 08:38 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Dana Kirk would say we're trying to with the Derby with donkeys.

Wish I could say I laughed my 'ass' off.

Good one. Plus, Dana bought his thoroughbreds, so...
11-13-2017 09:02 AM
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cmt Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
Too many examples of less known, less experienced, less decorated, less paid coaches at less distinguished, less supported basketball programs with way worse facilities making things happen every single season to take an unbelievably highly paid, experienced, successful coach at a school who has made it to the top of college basketball on numerous occasions in the past to make any excuses what so ever.

Any coach with this paycheck, with these facilities, with this support and this history should be doing way more than Tubby is.

I wish we could file a civil suit against him and get some of our money back.
11-13-2017 09:11 AM
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Tiger1983 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
The sleazy aspects of recruiting against the rules and laws with coaching staff active participation is generally limited to the best players. There is no excuse not to obtain our share to 50 to 100 recruits and an occasional better rated player (not everyone cheats).
11-13-2017 09:27 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-12-2017 09:56 PM)dcg141 Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:52 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:34 PM)dcg141 Wrote:  Good players get bought, plain and simple. We are no longer buying.

Utter nonsense.

Every top coach has a bag man and a shoe company paying players. Heck some are getting so bold as to letting assistants hand out the money. Every top recruit has his hand out, because they can get paid.

Maybe for the top 75, but recruits ranked between 75-150 should be Tubby's sweet spot at Memphis. Halfway between what he did at Minnesota and Texas Tech and what Pastner did at Memphis.

Give Tubby players ranked at that level and there is a sliver of hope for him to get to the Sweet 16. The key word is "give" because God knows that Tubby isn't going to get them on his own.
11-13-2017 09:48 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-12-2017 10:45 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  Geoff's takes:

We might really have had something if Crawford and the Lawsons had stayed.
Weren't they all on the last two teams? That stunk? With higher rated players around them both years? How would that have worked, Geoff? The Lawsons and Crawford didn't make the last two teams worth diddly, but they could have made this one "something?" The man makes stuff up out of thin air.

Good lord.

If you surround a great college player and two good college players with:

-a 2* frosh who has no business getting more than garbage time
-a 6'10 guy who has done nothing but play church league ball the past four years and is an injury waiting to happen
-a transfer from a 9-22 Coppin State team
-an ok JUCO wing who is forced to play the 5

What in the heck would you expect from that team?


To say, "well what good did they do when they were here?" is just so shortsighted.

If Tubby had gotten off his lazy ass in 2016 and surrounded those three players with more than the flotsam listed above, the team could have been an at-large team.

Instead, Tubby stuck by his tried and true "don't win too early" mantra and bragged about "meeting expectations."

"We were picked to finish 5th and we finished 5th. Why are people complaining?
11-13-2017 09:52 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-12-2017 10:45 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  Geoff's takes:

We might really have had something if Crawford and the Lawsons had stayed.
Weren't they all on the last two teams? That stunk? With higher rated players around them both years? How would that have worked, Geoff? The Lawsons and Crawford didn't make the last two teams worth diddly, but they could have made this one "something?" The man makes stuff up out of thin air.

And that incessant talk about Pastner's recruiting making him, somehow, superior. Pastner is the sole reason the home crowd went from 16,000 strong and top ten rated to the AD showing up before the last game with his hat in his hand begging for bodies to keep from losing everything from the Grizzlies guarantee. Stop with it already. That's not superior. I'm not aware of any coach who has ever coached here, including the present one, who has accomplished that feat at any school they've ever coached. If I'm wrong, fill me in. Which former or current Memphis coach personally ran off 10,000 home crowd fans? Ever?

How anyone can see this as "spot on" is beyond me. This team is not very good. Anyone can see that, and anyone who knows the situation knows how it happened. Tubby's never been known as a great recruiter, and this year he had to replace more than half a team, most of whom told hm up until the very end that they would be back. And anyone who thinks none of that matters or that we can expect the same thing next year either doesn't know what a normal year looks like or has forgotten. And with Pastner at the helm the last seven years before Tubby, I can understand why.

The last two teams didn't stink, Pastner's last team wasn't very good. If Tubby's team this year finishes with an RPI of 89, sheep like you will turn cartwheels.

Quote:Tubby's never been known as a great recruiter, and this year he had to replace more than half a team

Had to replace them because they all walked out on him. Markel, Clergeot and Randall were a cancer? The ENTIRE team quit the last two games; before then they played hard for Tubby and he got the most out of them.

Quote:Pastner is the sole reason the home crowd went from 16,000 strong and top ten rated to the AD showing up before the last game with his hat in his hand begging for bodies to keep from losing everything from the Grizzlies guarantee.

Pastner kept it going for 6 out of his 7 years and in year 7 we still had over 12,000 tickets sold for 2016. Tubby will probably have the program's worst attendance in 40 years this year and next year will be worse.

Pastner left the next coach with over 12,000 in tickets sold, and the fanbase with hope. The right hire would have increased ticket sales and increased hope and excitement. Instead, we get the laziest recruiter in the entire NCAA who is about as exciting as a ham, cheese and mayonnaise sandwich that's been left on a rock in the middle of the desert for 3 days.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2017 10:06 AM by Stammers.)
11-13-2017 09:57 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-13-2017 09:52 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 10:45 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  Geoff's takes:

We might really have had something if Crawford and the Lawsons had stayed.
Weren't they all on the last two teams? That stunk? With higher rated players around them both years? How would that have worked, Geoff? The Lawsons and Crawford didn't make the last two teams worth diddly, but they could have made this one "something?" The man makes stuff up out of thin air.

Good lord.

If you surround a great college player and two good college players with:

-a 2* frosh who has no business getting more than garbage time
-a 6'10 guy who has done nothing but play church league ball the past four years and is an injury waiting to happen
-a transfer from a 9-22 Coppin State team
-an ok JUCO wing who is forced to play the 5

What in the heck would you expect from that team?


To say, "well what good did they do when they were here?" is just so shortsighted.

If Tubby had gotten off his lazy ass in 2016 and surrounded those three players with more than the flotsam listed above, the team could have been an at-large team.

Instead, Tubby stuck by his tried and true "don't win too early" mantra and bragged about "meeting expectations."

"We were picked to finish 5th and we finished 5th. Why are people complaining?

Imagine for a minute that Tubby isn't a lazy has been and let's go back to this time last year.

C - Parks equivalent
F - Dedric
F - Davenport equivalent
G - Markel
G - Harris/Lomax equivalent

F - Rivers
F - KJ
F - Azab
G - Martin
G - Randall
G - Kessee
G - Clergeot

Not only is that a borderline NCAA team and a sure NIT team, it has returning players this year, it builds momentum for the program and I am almost 100% sure that everyone gets along better and the entire team doesn't revolt and walk out on Tubby.

Also, we end up with DJ and Jeffries, and MAYBE Lomax and Harris if we think that they are Memphis good.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2017 10:06 AM by Stammers.)
11-13-2017 10:05 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-13-2017 09:11 AM)cmt Wrote:  Too many examples of less known, less experienced, less decorated, less paid coaches at less distinguished, less supported basketball programs with way worse facilities making things happen every single season to take an unbelievably highly paid, experienced, successful coach at a school who has made it to the top of college basketball on numerous occasions in the past to make any excuses what so ever.

Any coach with this paycheck, with these facilities, with this support and this history should be doing way more than Tubby is.

I wish we could file a civil suit against him and get some of our money back.

87 coaches have won at least 2 NCAA tournament games in the last 10 seasons. 66 coaches have signed a top 150 recruit for 2018. Poor Tubby, except for the four 4* players he inherited, nobody gave him any players.
11-13-2017 10:09 AM
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TG4 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-12-2017 09:46 PM)dcg141 Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:42 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:34 PM)dcg141 Wrote:  Good players get bought, plain and simple. We are no longer buying.

Or you build relationships.

Case closed, your honor.

First you need a bag man. Relationships have a price. Its the way the game is played now.

Until the FBI starts ramping up the plea bargains. Kids are changing their commitments left and right now. Let’s see how some of this “High dolla” talent handles calls from the FBI, the IRS or both. Most of these AAU phenoms will be 20 year-old freshmen and already of legal age to prosecute.
11-13-2017 10:10 AM
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midtowncowboy Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-13-2017 09:27 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The sleazy aspects of recruiting against the rules and laws with coaching staff active participation is generally limited to the best players. There is no excuse not to obtain our share to 50 to 100 recruits and an occasional better rated player (not everyone cheats).

This
11-13-2017 10:16 AM
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
well, at least there doesn't appear to be any evidence that hope is on the horizon...

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basket...erence=AAC

yep, we are ranked last..
11-13-2017 10:18 AM
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Tiger1983 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-13-2017 10:18 AM)Dylan Wrote:  well, at least there doesn't appear to be any evidence that hope is on the horizon...

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basket...erence=AAC

yep, we are ranked last..

In fairness, the early and late signing periods have not ended. However, just as we were pleased that we lead the conference last season, so too should we be concerned we are last now under the same ranking site.
11-13-2017 10:30 AM
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-13-2017 10:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(11-13-2017 10:18 AM)Dylan Wrote:  well, at least there doesn't appear to be any evidence that hope is on the horizon...

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basket...erence=AAC

yep, we are ranked last..

In fairness, the early and late signing periods have not ended. However, just as we were pleased that we lead the conference last season, so too should we be concerned we are last now under the same ranking site.

I get it, the point was more towards the people that keep making excuses for our lack of recruiting. There are already 3 four star players signed in our conference and 10 three star players ranked higher than our lone commit/signee. That's out of 17 total players that have been brought in.
11-13-2017 10:35 AM
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ksigtigerdood Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-12-2017 08:43 PM)Herff Tiger Wrote:  What he failed to mention is that joshie's initial "recruiting" of players was on the heels of crapapari's success, so it didn't take much persuasion, but Tubby has had to pitch a tarnished Memphis brand. I don't say that to give a blanket excuse to Tubby, but it is not a fair comparison for Caulkins to make. Plus he threw in DaJuan Wagner as a recruiting success when it was one of these shady package deals in hiring Milt. I bet if you checked the records, he was critical of it.

Tubby isn't exactly pitching the brand. Tubby has said that Memphis isn't what it was ten years ago, and that we can't recruit in the same fashion that we used to (even though there are plenty of similar or lesser programs out-recruiting him).

Tubby doesn't believe that he's under-performing. He believes that the fans' expectations are out of line. That's concerning, considering that we're paying him as if he was a top-10 coach.
11-13-2017 10:49 AM
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Tiger1983 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-13-2017 10:35 AM)Dylan Wrote:  
(11-13-2017 10:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(11-13-2017 10:18 AM)Dylan Wrote:  well, at least there doesn't appear to be any evidence that hope is on the horizon...

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basket...erence=AAC

yep, we are ranked last..

In fairness, the early and late signing periods have not ended. However, just as we were pleased that we lead the conference last season, so too should we be concerned we are last now under the same ranking site.

I get it, the point was more towards the people that keep making excuses for our lack of recruiting. There are already 3 four star players signed in our conference and 10 three star players ranked higher than our lone commit/signee. That's out of 17 total players that have been brought in.

Agree.
11-13-2017 10:55 AM
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bariggins98 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Follow up column from Calkins nails it.
(11-12-2017 08:43 PM)Herff Tiger Wrote:  What he failed to mention is that joshie's initial "recruiting" of players was on the heels of crapapari's success, so it didn't take much persuasion, but Tubby has had to pitch a tarnished Memphis brand. I don't say that to give a blanket excuse to Tubby, but it is not a fair comparison for Caulkins to make. Plus he threw in DaJuan Wagner as a recruiting success when it was one of these shady package deals in hiring Milt. I bet if you checked the records, he was critical of it.

Recruiting is nothing more than selling. It's knowing your product, being enthusiastic about your product, and painting a picture to your prospect where he sees himself successfully using your product.

This staff does not appear to be capable of any of these three.
11-13-2017 11:09 AM
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