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Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
Stony Brook and Albany might be on a higher up for accessing a bowl bid even if the conference do not have an access bid or autobid.

I think some people are looking at having to create a new conference to have a bid? You need 7 schools that have played with each other for several years together.

James Madison, UMass., Delaware, Towson, Old Dominion, Charlotte, New Hampshire and maybe a Maine, URI or Richmond as the seventh. Stony Brook and Albany are new to the CAA and may not count yet.
11-11-2017 04:10 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 04:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Stony Brook and Albany might be on a higher up for accessing a bowl bid even if the conference do not have an access bid or autobid.

I think some people are looking at having to create a new conference to have a bid? You need 7 schools that have played with each other for several years together.

James Madison, UMass., Delaware, Towson, Old Dominion, Charlotte, New Hampshire and maybe a Maine, URI or Richmond as the seventh. Stony Brook and Albany are new to the CAA and may not count yet.

Neither Albany nor Stony Brook have much of a history of competing for at large bids to the NCAA tournament. And that's just one tournament.

The rule isn't 'played together in some former conference in the past', but IIRC, you have to play together in THAT conference consecutively for six years.

Yes, the new Big East did get a waiver, but I think that was a one off, which was provided because the winner of the Big East men's basketball, women's basketball, and baseball conference crowns would get a bid anyway. This collection isn't anywhere near that level.
11-11-2017 04:20 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 04:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 04:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Stony Brook and Albany might be on a higher up for accessing a bowl bid even if the conference do not have an access bid or autobid.

I think some people are looking at having to create a new conference to have a bid? You need 7 schools that have played with each other for several years together.

James Madison, UMass., Delaware, Towson, Old Dominion, Charlotte, New Hampshire and maybe a Maine, URI or Richmond as the seventh. Stony Brook and Albany are new to the CAA and may not count yet.

Neither Albany nor Stony Brook have much of a history of competing for at large bids to the NCAA tournament. And that's just one tournament.

The rule isn't 'played together in some former conference in the past', but IIRC, you have to play together in THAT conference consecutively for six years.

Yes, the new Big East did get a waiver, but I think that was a one off, which was provided because the winner of the Big East men's basketball, women's basketball, and baseball conference crowns would get a bid anyway. This collection isn't anywhere near that level.


What I mean is that Stony Brook and Albany could get a bowl bid if there were not enough 6-6 and above winning teams.
11-11-2017 04:41 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
Let's say JMU and Delaware decide to petition for FBS together.

If they did that they would have to leave the CAA since the CAA already sponsors FB at the FCS level.

For Stony Brook and Albany they dont have that problem since they play in the American East.


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11-11-2017 04:46 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 04:41 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 04:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 04:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Stony Brook and Albany might be on a higher up for accessing a bowl bid even if the conference do not have an access bid or autobid.

I think some people are looking at having to create a new conference to have a bid? You need 7 schools that have played with each other for several years together.

James Madison, UMass., Delaware, Towson, Old Dominion, Charlotte, New Hampshire and maybe a Maine, URI or Richmond as the seventh. Stony Brook and Albany are new to the CAA and may not count yet.

Neither Albany nor Stony Brook have much of a history of competing for at large bids to the NCAA tournament. And that's just one tournament.

The rule isn't 'played together in some former conference in the past', but IIRC, you have to play together in THAT conference consecutively for six years.

Yes, the new Big East did get a waiver, but I think that was a one off, which was provided because the winner of the Big East men's basketball, women's basketball, and baseball conference crowns would get a bid anyway. This collection isn't anywhere near that level.


What I mean is that Stony Brook and Albany could get a bowl bid if there were not enough 6-6 and above winning teams.

Sure, the winner of that conference will get a bowl bid somewhere. Maybe in Idaho or Tucson. They might even get a new bowl game certified somewhere. But that's the least of the hurdles, but remains one anyway.

And the bowl tie in comment was really more of an issue for the teams that some posters think might jump from the Belt or CUSA. Its just another reason why any new conference will likely be for FCS only moveups (plus NMSU, LU and UMass).
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2017 04:47 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-11-2017 04:47 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 04:46 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Let's say JMU and Delaware decide to petition for FBS together.

If they did that they would have to leave the CAA since the CAA already sponsors FB at the FCS level.

For Stony Brook and Albany they dont have that problem since they play in the American East.


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False. Army and Navy aren't playing Patriot League football.

5 CAA schools don't play football at any level so that shouldn't stop Delaware and JMU.
11-11-2017 04:56 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 04:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 04:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Stony Brook and Albany might be on a higher up for accessing a bowl bid even if the conference do not have an access bid or autobid.

I think some people are looking at having to create a new conference to have a bid? You need 7 schools that have played with each other for several years together.

James Madison, UMass., Delaware, Towson, Old Dominion, Charlotte, New Hampshire and maybe a Maine, URI or Richmond as the seventh. Stony Brook and Albany are new to the CAA and may not count yet.

Neither Albany nor Stony Brook have much of a history of competing for at large bids to the NCAA tournament. And that's just one tournament.

The rule isn't 'played together in some former conference in the past', but IIRC, you have to play together in THAT conference consecutively for six years.

Yes, the new Big East did get a waiver, but I think that was a one off, which was provided because the winner of the Big East men's basketball, women's basketball, and baseball conference crowns would get a bid anyway. This collection isn't anywhere near that level.

It wasn't a one off, the rule then was at least 7 members had to play together for 6 years prior. It wasn't a waiver they followed the NCAA by laws. The idea after the first ACC raid was the two sides were going to split after 6 years and become 2 conferences, but the BBall was so good they all decided to stick together until the FB schools got poached.
11-11-2017 05:42 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
Delaware isn’t leaving FCS. UNH to FBS? Wut? URI to FBS. Please share whatever is being smoked in this thread.
11-11-2017 05:56 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 04:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 04:46 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Let's say JMU and Delaware decide to petition for FBS together.

If they did that they would have to leave the CAA since the CAA already sponsors FB at the FCS level.

For Stony Brook and Albany they dont have that problem since they play in the American East.


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False. Army and Navy aren't playing Patriot League football.

5 CAA schools don't play football at any level so that shouldn't stop Delaware and JMU.

Its not an NCAA rule its a CAA rule.
11-11-2017 06:07 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 03:57 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 03:09 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Well you'd have to convince them that in the long run having a few years without an auto-bid is worth it for a secure home for their FB.

I think UMass regrets leaving the MAC for the A-10 and FBS Indy status.

North: Buffalo, New Hampshire, Army, UMass, Stony Brook, Albany

South: JMU, ODU, Delaware, Liberty, Marshall, Eastern Kentucky

Even if UMass leaves for this new conference, it doesn't look like that would be appealing to some of the teams.

First, Marshall isn't leaving CUSA for that mess. They left the MAC for reasons of 'separation'. So I seriously doubt that they'd leave CUSA to play in a division with 1 school that was FBS prior to 2014. Also, Marshall's big recruiting area is Florida.

Secondly, why would Army join this? They left CUSA and have realistic aspirations for AAC inclusion. Not going to happen.

Old Dominion? This conference does reduce their travel costs, but that's about all this conference would provide them as far as benefits. Basketball would be worse too. And they'd be elevating not just one but three nearby rivals for recruiting. Not going to happen.

Buffalo? I don't see that happening either. While Buffalo probably wants to move somewhat East, I doubt they'd jump for that collection.

And just look at the FCS schools you've proposed.

UNH? They have 15,000 students. That's kind of small. And New England isn't a big football area. They also need a new stadium.

Albany? Less than 19,000 students. Not in a big football area. Small endowment. They have a stadium that is expandable, but they'd still have to pay to do it.

Stony Brook? Less than 16,000 undergrads. Not in a big football area. 10,000 seat stadium.

Eastern Kentucky? Wants to move up. 14,000 undergrads. Completely smothered by a flagship P5 school 27 miles away. Applied to the Sun Belt Conference and was turned down in favor of Coastal Carolina.

But for your analysis, lets assume they'd be able to swing it.

---

Now, you're left with a conference that includes 1 FBS independent (and recent moveup), 1 FCS team in the process of moving up, and 6 teams (4 of whom appear to be pretty marginal candidates for FBS) that haven't even started the process. You could also add NMSU and Jacksonville State to the teams that might be interested.

And this new conference would have to sort out bowl lineups, TV deals, and then there's the whole issue of getting an autobid for the Olympic sports.

---

This is so not happening.

Army left a CUSA that had TCU, Louisville and Cincy. They are also not in serious consideration for the AAC despite what people here say.
11-11-2017 07:31 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 04:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Stony Brook and Albany might be on a higher up for accessing a bowl bid even if the conference do not have an access bid or autobid.

I think some people are looking at having to create a new conference to have a bid? You need 7 schools that have played with each other for several years together.

A new conference has to wait 8 years before they can qualify for an autobid. Old thread. The old "6 schools playing together for 5 years" has been dead since 2011 or 2012.
11-11-2017 09:14 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-10-2017 02:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-10-2017 01:56 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don't think being in a regional conference with other northeastern and mid-Atlantic schools isn't quite the same in FBS as it is in FCS because of the transfer component that allows for some different practices between the levels. Delaware would probably need that FL and TX (or CA) pipeline like other schools crave at the G5 level that it doesn't need presently.

I wish we could get that regional thing going again, and not have to feel like every conference needing some pipeline to a big state. There's a lot to build from in the region that doesn't need to connect to the Gulf.

How about this?

Eastern Athletic Conference
North: Delaware, JMU, Marshall, ODU, UMass, YSU
South: App State, Charlotte, FAU, FIU, GA Southern, GA State
No to anything that includes FAU & FIU. Delaware is a very wealthy school and could move up. However it takes leadership and desire. Based on the rhetoric coming out of Newark I don't see that happening. As much as JMU would like to be in the MAC I don't think they want anything to do with those mid week games. One scenario I could see happening is the SB & CUSA agree to rearrange the deck chairs and JMU jumps into a eastern conference with App, Charlotte, Coastal, GASo, GASt, Marshall, MTSU, ODU & WKU.

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(This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 12:18 AM by AppManDG.)
11-12-2017 12:03 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-11-2017 09:14 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 04:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Stony Brook and Albany might be on a higher up for accessing a bowl bid even if the conference do not have an access bid or autobid.

I think some people are looking at having to create a new conference to have a bid? You need 7 schools that have played with each other for several years together.

A new conference has to wait 8 years before they can qualify for an autobid. Old thread. The old "6 schools playing together for 5 years" has been dead since 2011 or 2012.

Ok...even worse than the old rules for a new conference. Not happening.
11-12-2017 12:56 AM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
I think it would be a much easier proposition to have a new FBS conference made up of mostly existing FBS programs. The challenge is finding a lower level conference that can clear enough space to repurpose itself to invite as many as eight incoming programs, yet whose non-football members are not a total anathema to other conferences.

The CAA would be the conference to repurpose since you could keep James Madison and Delaware. Towson probably stays due to their location and being on the fringes of being able to upgrade football themselves. Drexel probably stays due to their location, and that at least initially, half the conference needs to stay to keep the tournament credits with the conference.

CAA Holdovers (6):

James Madison
Delaware
Towson (remains FCS, at least initially)
Drexel (non-football)
Hofstra (non-football)
College of Charleston (non-football)

New members (6):
UMass (Atlantic 10)
Ohio (MAC)
Buffalo (MAC)
Marshall (C-USA)
Old Dominion (C-USA)
Charlotte (C-USA)

Outgoing members (4):
Northeastern (replaces UMass in Atlantic 10)
William & Mary (America East)
Elon (America East)
UNC Wilmington (America East)

America East takes over CAA Football with 6 of its now 12 members sponsoring the sport. Rhode Island, Towson, Villanova, and Richmond join for football only.
11-12-2017 08:15 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
To get over the "no football only conferences" rule this group of independents would need someone to serve as the sponsoring league. That's tricky because pretty much everyone is in a different conference--A-10, CAA, America East, WAC, Horizon, OVC, Big South, A-Sun. Someone could probably be convinced to slap their name on the league even if they only have one or two schools who plays in it.
11-12-2017 09:51 AM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #56
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-12-2017 09:51 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  To get over the "no football only conferences" rule this group of independents would need someone to serve as the sponsoring league. That's tricky because pretty much everyone is in a different conference--A-10, CAA, America East, WAC, Horizon, OVC, Big South, A-Sun. Someone could probably be convinced to slap their name on the league even if they only have one or two schools who plays in it.

The rule is that an FBS conference must have 8 full football-playing members.

(The reason there are so many obstacles to this sort of project is that The Powers That Be don't want this sort of thing to happen too often.)
11-12-2017 10:26 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-12-2017 10:26 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:51 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  To get over the "no football only conferences" rule this group of independents would need someone to serve as the sponsoring league. That's tricky because pretty much everyone is in a different conference--A-10, CAA, America East, WAC, Horizon, OVC, Big South, A-Sun. Someone could probably be convinced to slap their name on the league even if they only have one or two schools who plays in it.

The rule is that an FBS conference must have 8 full football-playing members.

(The reason there are so many obstacles to this sort of project is that The Powers That Be don't want this sort of thing to happen too often.)


Like I said, some of the powers to be would say okay for certain teams. Liberty was not one of the teams that they want.

MVFC schools, Southland, Southern, CAA, OVC and Big Sky schools are okay because there are schools that are similar in academics, or where there are needs for football schools for money issues of traveling for football. There are some D2 schools are up there close to the P5 level in academics as well.
11-12-2017 12:03 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-12-2017 10:26 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:51 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  To get over the "no football only conferences" rule this group of independents would need someone to serve as the sponsoring league. That's tricky because pretty much everyone is in a different conference--A-10, CAA, America East, WAC, Horizon, OVC, Big South, A-Sun. Someone could probably be convinced to slap their name on the league even if they only have one or two schools who plays in it.

The rule is that an FBS conference must have 8 full football-playing members.

(The reason there are so many obstacles to this sort of project is that The Powers That Be don't want this sort of thing to happen too often.)

Thats why i'm saying it will take a real desire to get up to FBS. Taking a short term hit (yes in the long run 8 years is short tern) for a long term benefit.

A UMass could be a FB only member for those 8 years then become a full member after they get their auto-bids as long as they have 8 full members during that time.
11-12-2017 12:24 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-12-2017 09:51 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  To get over the "no football only conferences" rule this group of independents would need someone to serve as the sponsoring league. That's tricky because pretty much everyone is in a different conference--A-10, CAA, America East, WAC, Horizon, OVC, Big South, A-Sun. Someone could probably be convinced to slap their name on the league even if they only have one or two schools who plays in it.

This has been tried before and it usually ends up destroying the basketball product for the non-football schools.

The A-10 is absolutely not interested. Dumping their FCS league onto the CAA was one the best things that ever happened to them.

There are exactly three basketball onlies that play in FBS conferences. They are Wichita, UALR, and Texas-Arlington. They are all happy with that because they have no place better to go. Their situation isn't really applicable to other conferences.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 03:29 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-12-2017 03:27 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Delaware starts $60 million upgrade-start of FBS move with JMU?
(11-12-2017 03:27 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  There are exactly three basketball onlies that play in FBS conferences. They are Wichita, UALR, and Texas-Arlington. They are all happy with that because they have no place better to go. Their situation isn't really applicable to other conferences.

Notre Dame could technically fit the description of a basketball-only conference member, but their situation is also admittedly different.
11-12-2017 03:36 PM
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