Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Latest CFP Poll
Author Message
stever20 Online
Legend
*

Posts: 30,246
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 282
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #61
RE: Latest CFP Poll
My guess is
1 Alabama
2 Clemson
3 Miami
4 Oklahoma
5 Wisconsin
6 Auburn
7 Georgia
8 Ohio St
9 Notre Dame
10 USC

Miami being undefeated with the win over ND beats Oklahoma.

Ohio St will be the 2nd best 2 loss team I think. TCU has 1 CFP win(maybe 2 this week)- vs Oklahoma St(and maybe West Virginia). Ohio St has 2 for sure in Penn St and Michigan St.
11-12-2017 09:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RUScarlets Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,810
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 18
I Root For: Rutgers
Location:
Post: #62
RE: Latest CFP Poll
One scenario that might be ugly for TV ratings:

Auburn beats Bama then loses to UGa in the SEC CCG
OU drops Big 12 CCG
Clemson beats Miami

Possible Final CFP rankings:

UGa 12-1
Clemson 12-1
Bama 11-1
Wisconsin 13-0 or OSU 10-2?
Two loss Big 12 champ or Miami 12-1 (outside looking in)

I wonder how they will finagle with rankings to avoid a southeastern matchup in the Rose as well as other rematch scenarios.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 10:42 AM by RUScarlets.)
11-12-2017 10:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,743
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 617
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #63
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  My guess is
1 Alabama
2 Clemson
3 Miami
4 Oklahoma
5 Wisconsin
6 Auburn
7 Georgia
8 Ohio St
9 Notre Dame
10 USC

Miami being undefeated with the win over ND beats Oklahoma.

Ohio St will be the 2nd best 2 loss team I think. TCU has 1 CFP win(maybe 2 this week)- vs Oklahoma St(and maybe West Virginia). Ohio St has 2 for sure in Penn St and Michigan St.

That Iowa loss for Ohio St. was really ugly and very recent.
11-12-2017 10:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Online
Legend
*

Posts: 30,246
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 282
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #64
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 10:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  My guess is
1 Alabama
2 Clemson
3 Miami
4 Oklahoma
5 Wisconsin
6 Auburn
7 Georgia
8 Ohio St
9 Notre Dame
10 USC

Miami being undefeated with the win over ND beats Oklahoma.

Ohio St will be the 2nd best 2 loss team I think. TCU has 1 CFP win(maybe 2 this week)- vs Oklahoma St(and maybe West Virginia). Ohio St has 2 for sure in Penn St and Michigan St.

That Iowa loss for Ohio St. was really ugly and very recent.

So was that Michigan St win. Ohio St I guarantee you won't be out of the top 10.
11-12-2017 10:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,520
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 128
I Root For: TCU
Location:
Post: #65
RE: Latest CFP Poll
OU will now have 3 top 15 wins, 2 on the road including against a top P5 opponent in nonconference action. If you take the projected top 15 and look at their home losses, there have been a total of 4, and OU will be responsible for half of them. That’s the sort of thing the committee really rewards. I could see them jumping Clemson and staying ahead of Miami. But those teams also have some strong arguments.
11-12-2017 11:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EvilVodka Offline
kwisatz haderach
*

Posts: 2,903
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 107
I Root For: The Mars Volta
Location: Houston, TX
Post: #66
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 11:02 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  OU will now have 3 top 15 wins, 2 on the road including against a top P5 opponent in nonconference action. If you take the projected top 15 and look at their home losses, there have been a total of 4, and OU will be responsible for half of them. That’s the sort of thing the committee really rewards. I could see them jumping Clemson and staying ahead of Miami. But those teams also have some strong arguments.

I'd have Oklahoma at 2 or 3 in the new poll..l

They are rolling on offense..I think Mayfield will win the Heisman
11-12-2017 11:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wedge Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 13,644
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 439
I Root For: California
Location: Bear Territory
Post: #67
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 11:02 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  OU will now have 3 top 15 wins, 2 on the road including against a top P5 opponent in nonconference action. If you take the projected top 15 and look at their home losses, there have been a total of 4, and OU will be responsible for half of them. That’s the sort of thing the committee really rewards. I could see them jumping Clemson and staying ahead of Miami. But those teams also have some strong arguments.

It's just a fans' argument either way, because each of those three teams are in if they win out.

There are 7 teams who are locks to be in the playoff, without help from anyone else, if they win out:

Alabama
Auburn
Georgia
Clemson
Miami
Oklahoma
Wisconsin
11-12-2017 01:17 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,743
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 617
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #68
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 01:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 11:02 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  OU will now have 3 top 15 wins, 2 on the road including against a top P5 opponent in nonconference action. If you take the projected top 15 and look at their home losses, there have been a total of 4, and OU will be responsible for half of them. That’s the sort of thing the committee really rewards. I could see them jumping Clemson and staying ahead of Miami. But those teams also have some strong arguments.

It's just a fans' argument either way, because each of those three teams are in if they win out.

There are 7 teams who are locks to be in the playoff, without help from anyone else, if they win out:

Alabama
Auburn
Georgia
Clemson
Miami
Oklahoma
Wisconsin

Not sure about Auburn. Close win vs. Alabama and Alabama may beat them out like Ohio St. did last year vs. Penn St.
Wisconsin, Miami/Clemson make it. OU probably does. Does Auburn's win over Alabama and conference championship make up for the extra loss when comparing them to Alabama?
11-12-2017 01:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Online
Legend
*

Posts: 30,246
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 282
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #69
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 01:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 01:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 11:02 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  OU will now have 3 top 15 wins, 2 on the road including against a top P5 opponent in nonconference action. If you take the projected top 15 and look at their home losses, there have been a total of 4, and OU will be responsible for half of them. That’s the sort of thing the committee really rewards. I could see them jumping Clemson and staying ahead of Miami. But those teams also have some strong arguments.

It's just a fans' argument either way, because each of those three teams are in if they win out.

There are 7 teams who are locks to be in the playoff, without help from anyone else, if they win out:

Alabama
Auburn
Georgia
Clemson
Miami
Oklahoma
Wisconsin

Not sure about Auburn. Close win vs. Alabama and Alabama may beat them out like Ohio St. did last year vs. Penn St.
Wisconsin, Miami/Clemson make it. OU probably does. Does Auburn's win over Alabama and conference championship make up for the extra loss when comparing them to Alabama?

I think the difference is that the Auburn/Alabama win would have just happened.

The teams that if they lose really open things up are Oklahoma and Wisconsin.
11-12-2017 01:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wedge Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 13,644
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 439
I Root For: California
Location: Bear Territory
Post: #70
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 01:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 01:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 11:02 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  OU will now have 3 top 15 wins, 2 on the road including against a top P5 opponent in nonconference action. If you take the projected top 15 and look at their home losses, there have been a total of 4, and OU will be responsible for half of them. That’s the sort of thing the committee really rewards. I could see them jumping Clemson and staying ahead of Miami. But those teams also have some strong arguments.

It's just a fans' argument either way, because each of those three teams are in if they win out.

There are 7 teams who are locks to be in the playoff, without help from anyone else, if they win out:

Alabama
Auburn
Georgia
Clemson
Miami
Oklahoma
Wisconsin

Not sure about Auburn. Close win vs. Alabama and Alabama may beat them out like Ohio St. did last year vs. Penn St.
Wisconsin, Miami/Clemson make it. OU probably does. Does Auburn's win over Alabama and conference championship make up for the extra loss when comparing them to Alabama?

IMO, it would. In addition to the head-to-head win and conference title that Auburn would have, comparison of quality wins -- even if generously expanded to include wins over all teams with winning records -- would be:

Auburn (5): Alabama, Georgia x2, Mississippi State, Texas A&M

Alabama (5): Fresno State, Colorado State, LSU, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
11-12-2017 01:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Online
Legend
*

Posts: 30,246
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 282
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #71
RE: Latest CFP Poll
In both the human polls Miami is #2. Clemson is 4 in AP/3 coaches. Oklahoma is 3/5. Wisconsin is 5/4. Auburn/Georgia/Ohio St/Notre Dame is 6-9 in both. Oklahoma St is 10 in AP/USC is 10 in coaches....
11-12-2017 02:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
TripleA Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 43,670
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 1301
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location:

Memphis Hall of Fame
Post: #72
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-08-2017 04:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 03:47 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 10:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 08:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  That whole "13th data point" stuff is a bunch of hooey. Would Notre Dame be considered more worthy if they had scheduled a game at Hawaii for a 13th data point?

I agree. I've always said that, e.g., if Wisconsin plays 13 games, with Austin Peay as a week two cupcake and #2 Ohio State in the B1G title game, why is the B1G title game the "13th point" any more than the Austin Peay game is?

Has never made sense.

Easy. B/c the first 2 years of the CFP, it became an issue when Big 12 teams, without a CCG, were getting shut out at the last minute, while other teams were playing that extra game, usually against a quality team (a division champ).

One of the CFP members (the chairman) used that phrase (13th data point) to explain how the Big 12 teams got jumped.

It is also why the Big 12 scheduled rival games and moved them back a week the next year, then later added a CCG, even without expanding.

And your Austin Peay analogy doesn't apply, b/c we're talking bout the last game of the season, which is critical for the final rankings.

Other P5s were playing CCGs and getting all the headlines, while the Big 12 sat idle.

I know the history of how the "13th point" term came in to usage. If you follow college football, you can't help but know. And FWIW, the Big 12 did get in to the playoffs in the second year of the CFP, so clearly the lack of a 13th data point didn't keep them out that year.

And yes, the Austin Peay analogy does work, because the last game of the season isn't any more the "13th game" in the sense of having played 13 games than any other game is. Obviously, the last game is critical because it's the last game that factors in to the final rankings. But it isn't "13" any more than the week two games is.

Yes quo, I realize you know everything ahead of time.

But despite the Big 12 making the CFP early, that "13th data point" comment is what spurred them to make changes.

And the difference is not that each game is one of 13, it's that one candidate has played an extra game (CCG) against a better opponent at the critical time of year, than the candidate who only played 12 games and sat out CCG week, or simply played a regular season game.

So yes, your analogy about Austin Peay is mathematically correct, but completely misses the point the CFP SC made about why that gave teams an advantage.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 02:59 PM by TripleA.)
11-12-2017 02:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BadgerMJ Online
1st String
*

Posts: 1,185
Joined: Mar 2017
Reputation: 108
I Root For: Wisconsin / ND
Location: Wisconsin
Post: #73
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  My guess is
1 Alabama
2 Clemson
3 Miami
4 Oklahoma
5 Wisconsin
6 Auburn
7 Georgia
8 Ohio St
9 Notre Dame
10 USC

Miami being undefeated with the win over ND beats Oklahoma.

Ohio St will be the 2nd best 2 loss team I think. TCU has 1 CFP win(maybe 2 this week)- vs Oklahoma St(and maybe West Virginia). Ohio St has 2 for sure in Penn St and Michigan St.

That's pretty good, but I think OU will be third ahead of "The U". True, Miami blew out ND, but OU handled a good TCU team as well so I think they'll get the benefit of the doubt.

This weekend did set tell us a lot though. The PAC and ND are pretty much out of contention. The XII is OU or bust at this point. The B1G is Wisconsin or bust as well.

As much as it pains me to say it, if Wisconsin loses the CCG or even to Michigan AND OU loses in their CCG or to WVU, we might be looking at a final four of

Bama
GA/Auburn
Clemson
Miami

04-drinky 03-puke
11-12-2017 05:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stever20 Online
Legend
*

Posts: 30,246
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 282
I Root For: College Sports
Location:
Post: #74
RE: Latest CFP Poll
I think the undefeated with how they looked will beat out Oklahoma and Clemson.

Heck- I don't think it's a lock that Oklahoma even passes Clemson.
11-12-2017 05:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
gulfcoastgal Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,427
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 149
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location:
Post: #75
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 02:58 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 04:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 03:47 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 10:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 08:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  That whole "13th data point" stuff is a bunch of hooey. Would Notre Dame be considered more worthy if they had scheduled a game at Hawaii for a 13th data point?

I agree. I've always said that, e.g., if Wisconsin plays 13 games, with Austin Peay as a week two cupcake and #2 Ohio State in the B1G title game, why is the B1G title game the "13th point" any more than the Austin Peay game is?

Has never made sense.

Easy. B/c the first 2 years of the CFP, it became an issue when Big 12 teams, without a CCG, were getting shut out at the last minute, while other teams were playing that extra game, usually against a quality team (a division champ).

One of the CFP members (the chairman) used that phrase (13th data point) to explain how the Big 12 teams got jumped.

It is also why the Big 12 scheduled rival games and moved them back a week the next year, then later added a CCG, even without expanding.

And your Austin Peay analogy doesn't apply, b/c we're talking bout the last game of the season, which is critical for the final rankings.

Other P5s were playing CCGs and getting all the headlines, while the Big 12 sat idle.

I know the history of how the "13th point" term came in to usage. If you follow college football, you can't help but know. And FWIW, the Big 12 did get in to the playoffs in the second year of the CFP, so clearly the lack of a 13th data point didn't keep them out that year.

And yes, the Austin Peay analogy does work, because the last game of the season isn't any more the "13th game" in the sense of having played 13 games than any other game is. Obviously, the last game is critical because it's the last game that factors in to the final rankings. But it isn't "13" any more than the week two games is.

Yes quo, I realize you know everything ahead of time.

But despite the Big 12 making the CFP early, that "13th data point" comment is what spurred them to make changes.

And the difference is not that each game is one of 13, it's that one candidate has played an extra game (CCG) against a better opponent at the critical time of year, than the candidate who only played 12 games and sat out CCG week, or simply played a regular season game.

So yes, your analogy about Austin Peay is mathematically correct, but completely misses the point the CFP SC made about why that gave teams an advantage.

Recency bias in full effect, put in motion during the first CFP season when they said rankings are issued based on schedules to date. The last data point becomes important when it is considered a "good" win (which includes most CCG champ games vs. some random one off).
11-12-2017 05:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
otown Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,833
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 45
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #76
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 05:18 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  My guess is
1 Alabama
2 Clemson
3 Miami
4 Oklahoma
5 Wisconsin
6 Auburn
7 Georgia
8 Ohio St
9 Notre Dame
10 USC

Miami being undefeated with the win over ND beats Oklahoma.

Ohio St will be the 2nd best 2 loss team I think. TCU has 1 CFP win(maybe 2 this week)- vs Oklahoma St(and maybe West Virginia). Ohio St has 2 for sure in Penn St and Michigan St.

That's pretty good, but I think OU will be third ahead of "The U". True, Miami blew out ND, but OU handled a good TCU team as well so I think they'll get the benefit of the doubt.

This weekend did set tell us a lot though. The PAC and ND are pretty much out of contention. The XII is OU or bust at this point. The B1G is Wisconsin or bust as well.

As much as it pains me to say it, if Wisconsin loses the CCG or even to Michigan AND OU loses in their CCG or to WVU, we might be looking at a final four of

Bama
GA/Auburn
Clemson
Miami

04-drinky 03-puke

After this weekend, i dont think the SEC or ACC runner up recovers from a CG loss.
11-12-2017 06:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MissouriStateBears Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,325
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 80
I Root For: Missouri State
Location:
Post: #77
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-08-2017 04:56 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Auburn upsets Georgia
Miami over Notre Dame

This week's crazy picks.

01-ncaabbs
11-12-2017 08:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RUScarlets Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,810
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 18
I Root For: Rutgers
Location:
Post: #78
RE: Latest CFP Poll
1. Bama
2. Clemson
3. Miami
4. OU
5. Wisconsin
6. Auburn
7. UGa

Miami should be rooting for UM and OSU to knock off Wisconsin. Then the three SEC teams will knock each other out.

If Bama loses close to Auburn or UGa and Miami loses close to Clemson and Wisconsin is upset, then it comes down to Bama 12-1 vs Miami 12-1. Tough call... I don't see Bama getting in if they lose to Auburn.
11-14-2017 09:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,743
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 617
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #79
RE: Latest CFP Poll
(11-12-2017 05:53 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 02:58 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 04:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 03:47 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 10:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I agree. I've always said that, e.g., if Wisconsin plays 13 games, with Austin Peay as a week two cupcake and #2 Ohio State in the B1G title game, why is the B1G title game the "13th point" any more than the Austin Peay game is?

Has never made sense.

Easy. B/c the first 2 years of the CFP, it became an issue when Big 12 teams, without a CCG, were getting shut out at the last minute, while other teams were playing that extra game, usually against a quality team (a division champ).

One of the CFP members (the chairman) used that phrase (13th data point) to explain how the Big 12 teams got jumped.

It is also why the Big 12 scheduled rival games and moved them back a week the next year, then later added a CCG, even without expanding.

And your Austin Peay analogy doesn't apply, b/c we're talking bout the last game of the season, which is critical for the final rankings.

Other P5s were playing CCGs and getting all the headlines, while the Big 12 sat idle.

I know the history of how the "13th point" term came in to usage. If you follow college football, you can't help but know. And FWIW, the Big 12 did get in to the playoffs in the second year of the CFP, so clearly the lack of a 13th data point didn't keep them out that year.

And yes, the Austin Peay analogy does work, because the last game of the season isn't any more the "13th game" in the sense of having played 13 games than any other game is. Obviously, the last game is critical because it's the last game that factors in to the final rankings. But it isn't "13" any more than the week two games is.

Yes quo, I realize you know everything ahead of time.

But despite the Big 12 making the CFP early, that "13th data point" comment is what spurred them to make changes.

And the difference is not that each game is one of 13, it's that one candidate has played an extra game (CCG) against a better opponent at the critical time of year, than the candidate who only played 12 games and sat out CCG week, or simply played a regular season game.

So yes, your analogy about Austin Peay is mathematically correct, but completely misses the point the CFP SC made about why that gave teams an advantage.

Recency bias in full effect, put in motion during the first CFP season when they said rankings are issued based on schedules to date. The last data point becomes important when it is considered a "good" win (which includes most CCG champ games vs. some random one off).

In full effect today. They completely forgot about Ohio St. being destroyed by an unranked Iowa and moved them back to 8. Also forgot about Auburn losing to LSU, focusing on their solid win at home vs. UGA. UGA has beaten ND on the road and MSU at home and lost to Auburn on the road. Auburn has beaten UGA and MSU at home and lost to Clemson and LSU on the road.
11-14-2017 09:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chargeradio Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,971
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation: 82
I Root For: ALA, KY, USA
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #80
RE: Latest CFP Poll
Does UCF have a path to the playoff? Not likely, but not completely out of the question:

#1 Alabama wins out
#2 Clemson loses to Miami
#3 Miami wins out
#4 Oklahoma loses Big XII title game
#5 Wisconsin wins out
#6 Auburn loses to Alabama
#7 Georgia loses to Alabama
#8 Notre Dame loses to Navy or Stanford
#9 Ohio State loses to Wisconsin
#10 Penn State loses to Maryland or Nebraska
#11 USC loses Pac 12 title game
#12 TCU loses to Texas Tech or Baylor
#13 Oklahoma State loses to Kansas or Kansas State
#14 Washington State loses to Washington
#15 UCF wins out

The least likely of the above would be the losses by Notre DMe, TCU, and Oklahoma State. Even then UCF may not pass Oklahoma or Ohio State, who would have a “good loss” to a likely #3 Wisconsin.
11-14-2017 10:19 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.