resort to prostitution in order to eat. My, my, isn't this the Liberal Utopian example of the Bernistas? Podesta, Weinstein, Weiner, and Stacey can all go to help out their Socialist buddy Maduro with needed cash and get in on the sex scene too. Two for one.

You will never see this on the MSM. I had to see it on OAN. Thanks to whomever steered me to it. I now catch about an hours worth because so far they're not that great on the news. I'm sure and I hope it will improve though.

Check that, it's teenage girls not women.

Shouldn't you criticize the people for the policies they actually propose, instead of judging them by the policies of whatever countries you arbitrarily decide best represent their policies?

(11-04-2017 11:39 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Shouldn't you criticize the people for the policies they actually propose, instead of judging them by the policies of whatever countries you arbitrarily decide best represent their policies?

Socialism. It's what's not for lunch.

(11-04-2017 11:39 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Shouldn't you criticize the people for the policies they actually propose, instead of judging them by the policies of whatever countries you arbitrarily decide best represent their policies?

Yes, and in the case of Bernie, the policies he proposed are the ones followed by Venezuela. He has even publicly stated his preference for the policies followed by Venezuela--and the results of those policies.

(11-04-2017 11:41 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:39 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Shouldn't you criticize the people for the policies they actually propose, instead of judging them by the policies of whatever countries you arbitrarily decide best represent their policies?

Socialism. It's what's not for lunch.

No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?

I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:41 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:39 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Shouldn't you criticize the people for the policies they actually propose, instead of judging them by the policies of whatever countries you arbitrarily decide best represent their policies?

Socialism. It's what's not for lunch.

No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?

I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

No, they advocated for things you saw in Venezuela, BY NAME, up until it became common knowledge that you could no longer acquire toilet paper there, had to put out in order to eat, and see people marching in protest in the street due to the conditions that socialism has left them in.

If socialism isnt going to work in oil rich venezuela, it aint working anywhere.

And anyone proposing "western european" models can eat one as well.

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

Judi Lynn of the Lunatic Underground

Quote:Maduro is trying to represent the people of Venezuela against Wall Street and capitalists. I wish we had leadership like this in the USA!

We did JL, he's now vacationing in Hawaii I believe.

(11-04-2017 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

They dont realize it yet, but until they burn her at the stake, it is Hillary.

(11-04-2017 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

Elected officials? Party leadership? It's not a trick statement, and you're not going to find any sort of meaningful arguments showing a genuine movement towards those same policies.

Also, let's be clear, Venezuelas problems aren't all just because of communist/market controlling policies.

(11-04-2017 11:59 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

They dont realize it yet, but until they burn her at the stake, it is Hillary.

The only thing keeping Hillary relevant is Trump.

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:39 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Shouldn't you criticize the people for the policies they actually propose, instead of judging them by the policies of whatever countries you arbitrarily decide best represent their policies?

Yes, and in the case of Bernie, the policies he proposed are the ones followed by Venezuela. He has even publicly stated his preference for the policies followed by Venezuela--and the results of those policies.

What specific policies?

(11-04-2017 12:02 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

Elected officials? Party leadership? It's not a trick statement, and you're not going to find any sort of meaningful arguments showing a genuine movement towards those same policies.

Also, let's be clear, Venezuelas problems aren't all just because of communist/market controlling policies.

Your weak attempt to defend Socialist dogma is duly noted.

(11-04-2017 12:06 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 12:02 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

Elected officials? Party leadership? It's not a trick statement, and you're not going to find any sort of meaningful arguments showing a genuine movement towards those same policies.

Also, let's be clear, Venezuelas problems aren't all just because of communist/market controlling policies.

Your weak attempt to defend Socialist dogma is duly noted.

Medicare is socialist, public education is socialist, just stating something is socialist is just a lazy criticism. I might as well dismiss policies as libertarian without describing the reasons those policies are harmful.

(11-04-2017 12:02 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

Elected officials? Party leadership? It's not a trick statement, and you're not going to find any sort of meaningful arguments showing a genuine movement towards those same policies.

Also, let's be clear, Venezuelas problems aren't all just because of communist/market controlling policies.

I'll bite. What's the source of Venezuela's problems?

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:41 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:39 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  Shouldn't you criticize the people for the policies they actually propose, instead of judging them by the policies of whatever countries you arbitrarily decide best represent their policies?

Socialism. It's what's not for lunch.

No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?

I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

What country?

(11-04-2017 12:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 12:06 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 12:02 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

Elected officials? Party leadership? It's not a trick statement, and you're not going to find any sort of meaningful arguments showing a genuine movement towards those same policies.

Also, let's be clear, Venezuelas problems aren't all just because of communist/market controlling policies.

Your weak attempt to defend Socialist dogma is duly noted.

Medicare is socialist, public education is socialist, just stating something is socialist is just a lazy criticism. I might as well dismiss policies as libertarian without describing the reasons those policies are harmful.

No it isn't. Why are derailing another thread. This is about Venezuela.

(11-04-2017 12:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 12:06 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 12:02 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 11:52 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one in any sort of leadership position of the dems is advocating for government control of the market, they're advocating for things you seen in Western Europe. Do you really want to bet on whose of those actual policies being champion lead to more general hunger for the populace?
I get that it's easier to argue against strawmen than actual arguments being presented, but I would hope that you hold yourself to a higher standard than that.

And whom would you define as being in any sort of leadership position of the dems?

Elected officials? Party leadership? It's not a trick statement, and you're not going to find any sort of meaningful arguments showing a genuine movement towards those same policies.

Also, let's be clear, Venezuelas problems aren't all just because of communist/market controlling policies.

Your weak attempt to defend Socialist dogma is duly noted.

Medicare is socialist, public education is socialist, just stating something is socialist is just a lazy criticism. I might as well dismiss policies as libertarian without describing the reasons those policies are harmful.

There is a vast difference between the amount of Socialist policy incorporated here compared to Venezuela....and you know it.

(11-04-2017 12:02 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Elected officials? Party leadership? It's not a trick statement, and you're not going to find any sort of meaningful arguments showing a genuine movement towards those same policies.

Come on. You're not that dumb. Or at least I didn't think you were.

Obama, Pelosi, Bernie, Warren, among others, have all proposed major moves in that direction. The democrat leadership is all about redistribution of income and wealth. And that concept has its roots deep in socialist/communist political theory. Democrats are collectivists. So are socialists (hard-core socialists, not necessarily social democrats like in western Europe), communists, and, quite frankly, fascists. Fascists may be right wing with their nationalism, but they are also left wing with their economics.

Chavez was all about redistribution. That's how Venezuela got into trouble. Yes, there were other factors, like the fact that Venezuelan crude is very heavy and gets penalized whenever there is excess crude supply worldwide, but they could have coped with the other problems without the collectivist/socialist/communist mantra.

(11-04-2017 12:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Medicare is socialist, public education is socialist, just stating something is socialist is just a lazy criticism. I might as well dismiss policies as libertarian without describing the reasons those policies are harmful.

No, they aren't. Countries with no logical connection to socialist theory provide both public education and care for the elderly. Governments have some functions in any form of economic organization.

Where things become socialist or communist is when massive redistribution of income or wealth becomes a driver. That happened in Venezuela, which crashed. Other countries where that has happened have crashed. Countries where that hasn't happened have tended to do better.