(11-09-2017 11:09 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 10:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Fewer conference games means more games that have to be scheduled, and scheduling is difficult. Each team in the conference would then be looking for an additional opponent with an open date, and it's difficult to impossible to get the opponent of one's choice.

The persistent fallacy of these proposals to go independent, or to play fewer conference games, is that Rice would then be at liberty to create an ideal slate of opponents.

One of the prime advantages of conference membership is secure scheduling, which for a G5 school is important. This is a main reason why there are so few independents, and why the independents are generally looking for a home. Notre Dame's AD can pick up the phone and get a play date with anyone, any time. The rest of the independents struggle to assemble a decent schedule.

To wonder why more schools including Rice don't try independence to improve scheduling, is to wonder why more people don't try flying by flapping their arms.

The reason most teams don't try independence is because conferences add value to most schools. To go independent, they have to give up their conference revenue and other things, let alone deal with scheduling.

The equation changes for C-USA and the Sunbelt, since conference revenue is basically zero. And most of those schools are directional state schools new to FBS or generally small time terrible programs - Rice has a shot at a 2-1 with aTm or UT.. UTSA doesn't.

You underestimate scheduling logistics, while overestimating Rice's attractiveness as an opponent. The wonder is that you do so after arguing at great length that Rice football is a small time terrible program.

(11-09-2017 11:15 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 11:09 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 10:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Fewer conference games means more games that have to be scheduled, and scheduling is difficult. Each team in the conference would then be looking for an additional opponent with an open date, and it's difficult to impossible to get the opponent of one's choice.

The persistent fallacy of these proposals to go independent, or to play fewer conference games, is that Rice would then be at liberty to create an ideal slate of opponents.

One of the prime advantages of conference membership is secure scheduling, which for a G5 school is important. This is a main reason why there are so few independents, and why the independents are generally looking for a home. Notre Dame's AD can pick up the phone and get a play date with anyone, any time. The rest of the independents struggle to assemble a decent schedule.

To wonder why more schools including Rice don't try independence to improve scheduling, is to wonder why more people don't try flying by flapping their arms.

The reason most teams don't try independence is because conferences add value to most schools. To go independent, they have to give up their conference revenue and other things, let alone deal with scheduling.

The equation changes for C-USA and the Sunbelt, since conference revenue is basically zero. And most of those schools are directional state schools new to FBS or generally small time terrible programs - Rice has a shot at a 2-1 with aTm or UT.. UTSA doesn't.

You underestimate scheduling logistics, while overestimating Rice's attractiveness as an opponent. The wonder is that you do so after arguing at great length that Rice football is a small time terrible program.

We are a small terrible program. That doesn't mean that the rest of C-USA/Sunbelt isn't more terrible.

I'm saying our attractiveness is higher than most (if not all) of C-USA/Sunbelt. So out of that small pool, independence might be possible for us. Which is vastly different from asserting that independence is bad because otherwise everyone would do it - because it makes sense in a small subset of teams.

(11-09-2017 10:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The persistent fallacy of these proposals to go independent, or to play fewer conference games, is that Rice would then be at liberty to create an ideal slate of opponents.

Who ever said this? Really ... who said Rice could create an ideal slate of opponents? My money is on virtually no one, if anyone. Everyone acknowledges that this is one of the largest hurdles to possibly going independent. No one said it was easy or would be ideal.

(11-09-2017 10:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Fewer conference games means more games that have to be scheduled, and scheduling is difficult. Each team in the conference would then be looking for an additional opponent with an open date, and it's difficult to impossible to get the opponent of one's choice.
...
One of the prime advantages of conference membership is secure scheduling, which for a G5 school is important. This is a main reason why there are so few independents, and why the independents are generally looking for a home. Notre Dame's AD can pick up the phone and get a play date with anyone, any time. The rest of the independents struggle to assemble a decent schedule.

I have some good news on this front. All of CUSA East would need to fill 2 games as well. So if Rice (or other CUSA schools) need to find an extra opponent, there would be a bunch of other schools with openings as well (games would be considered OOC games for CUSA purposes). But for schools that maybe can find more interesting opponents, then the move would make sense. I bet Rice could find better opponents for those 2 games than the CUSA East teams.

(11-09-2017 12:10 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 10:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The persistent fallacy of these proposals to go independent, or to play fewer conference games, is that Rice would then be at liberty to create an ideal slate of opponents.

Who ever said this? Really ... who said Rice could create an ideal slate of opponents? My money is on virtually no one, if anyone. Everyone acknowledges that this is one of the largest hurdles to possibly going independent. No one said it was easy or would be ideal.

(11-09-2017 10:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Fewer conference games means more games that have to be scheduled, and scheduling is difficult. Each team in the conference would then be looking for an additional opponent with an open date, and it's difficult to impossible to get the opponent of one's choice.
...
One of the prime advantages of conference membership is secure scheduling, which for a G5 school is important. This is a main reason why there are so few independents, and why the independents are generally looking for a home. Notre Dame's AD can pick up the phone and get a play date with anyone, any time. The rest of the independents struggle to assemble a decent schedule.

I have some good news on this front. All of CUSA East would need to fill 2 games as well. So if Rice (or other CUSA schools) need to find an extra opponent, there would be a bunch of other schools with openings as well (games would be considered OOC games for CUSA purposes). But for schools that maybe can find more interesting opponents, then the move would make sense. I bet Rice could find better opponents for those 2 games than the CUSA East teams.

This...

As you note, there are now 13 teams looking for a game. Easy solution.... replace the cross-over game with 'eastern team to be named later' with say 'the battle of the owls' and a game every year with FAU to develop a rivalry.... Maybe ODU based on lots of Rice alums in the region?

Almost as easy a solution.... find a local FCS (PV, SHSU, TSU, SFA, Lamar, HBU, Incarnate Word, ACU) or even half a dozen in Louisiana who are relatively short drives, have lots of local alumni and would relish the opportunity to play in a stadium that is nicer than most of the ones they play in... could be home every year....

Throw UH, the Ivies in or the belt and you've got a significant number of options that are AT LEAST as winnable as the cross-over game and creates an opportunity to develop a rivalry or an event.

The problem with the cross-over is there is no competitive reason for the game.


Let me say it differently....

First, we're staying in CUSA so we get all the benefits of that... whatever they are...

Let's assume that we do a home/home with a team that because we develop a rivalry, gives us 25k in the stands rather than 15k that show up for a team nowhere near us and changes every year... That 10,000 additional butts at just $25/ticket is $250,000... which is I believe more than we get from our conference every other year.

If it's 'home only' with a local FCS who gives us an additional home game with 20k butts (because we come and they're local) then that's even more.

What if it's UH and we get 40,000??

Going independent is just this on steroids. I'd still want to play 4 of the teams in CUSA west, which is why I'm okay staying. If we ever DID get a p5 invite, I'd schedule those 4, an academy and a local FCS (of course it would alternate some).

Almost exactly the same.

The UH game alone is worth a lot more to us than FIU or ODU or Marshall or whomever else. I'd drop the crossover merely to get an additional possible date for that game.

I'm not saying it's easy... but i've never seen a team not able to fill their card and if we went independent, there would be 7 other teams immediately looking for games.

Understand that this argument was not started by Owl fans... we are merely responding to the caveats.

(11-09-2017 12:10 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 10:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The persistent fallacy of these proposals to go independent, or to play fewer conference games, is that Rice would then be at liberty to create an ideal slate of opponents.

Who ever said this? Really ... who said Rice could create an ideal slate of opponents? My money is on virtually no one, if anyone. Everyone acknowledges that this is one of the largest hurdles to possibly going independent. No one said it was easy or would be ideal.

(11-09-2017 10:44 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Fewer conference games means more games that have to be scheduled, and scheduling is difficult. Each team in the conference would then be looking for an additional opponent with an open date, and it's difficult to impossible to get the opponent of one's choice.
...
One of the prime advantages of conference membership is secure scheduling, which for a G5 school is important. This is a main reason why there are so few independents, and why the independents are generally looking for a home. Notre Dame's AD can pick up the phone and get a play date with anyone, any time. The rest of the independents struggle to assemble a decent schedule.

I have some good news on this front. All of CUSA East would need to fill 2 games as well. So if Rice (or other CUSA schools) need to find an extra opponent, there would be a bunch of other schools with openings as well (games would be considered OOC games for CUSA purposes). But for schools that maybe can find more interesting opponents, then the move would make sense. I bet Rice could find better opponents for those 2 games than the CUSA East teams.

There's no doubt