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New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
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blazerjay Offline
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Post: #1
New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
Adding even more urgency to get the BJCC stadium project moving.

https://sports.yahoo.com/new-tax-bill-ki...27416.html

Quote:Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives have taken him at his word: the newly proposed tax reform bill would kill the tax-exempt status for municipal bonds used to finance stadium construction. (Worth noting: this isn’t an idea new to Trump or Republicans. President Obama proposed ending the tax-free status for the bonds back in 2015, and the stadium-finance bond provision has long been a target of tax reformers.)...

Those municipal bonds are, at present, free from federal tax, saving investors a measurable, significant, double-digit percentage of the overall cost … and, in turn, depriving the federal treasury of significant potential revenue.
11-03-2017 11:52 AM
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hooverblazer Offline
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Post: #2
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
Hopefully this is on the right peoples' radar.
11-03-2017 11:56 AM
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BAMANBLAZERFAN Offline
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Post: #3
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
My (amateur status) understanding of tax free municipal bonds is to make their relatively low interest rate return more acceptable in the competitive bond market. Higher return bonds that are taxed are balanced against lower return municipal bonds that are not taxed.

If the tax break is removed, will municipal bonds then have to pay higher interest returns thereby making them more expensive and /or harder to sell? If that happens, it could mean local municipalities and the states may have to substantially raise state and local taxes (local taxes in Alabama means sales taxes) in order to do the things normally done now by bond sales - or cut services.

EX: Alabama's recent prison building effort is built around being able to sell these tax free bonds with low interest rates. Under Alabama law, Bond income can only be used for permanent capital buildings (schools, prisons, stadiums, etc), never for wages or perishable materials (like foods or office supplies).
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2017 07:30 PM by BAMANBLAZERFAN.)
11-03-2017 01:17 PM
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WesternBlazer Offline
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Post: #4
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
USA Today

Seems like it would apply to college and pro facilities. May not apply to cities building w/o regard to specific college or pro entities. Or am I reading it wrong(ly)?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/20...830583001/
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2017 05:21 PM by WesternBlazer.)
11-03-2017 04:39 PM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #5
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
this is just the tippy tip tip of the iceberg headed for UAB that is a Republican-chaired Ways and Means committee
11-03-2017 04:49 PM
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GreenMississippi Offline
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Post: #6
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-03-2017 04:49 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  this is just the tippy tip tip of the iceberg headed for UAB that is a Republican-chaired Ways and Means committee
Yep. Unfortunately I don't think national Republicans in Alabama need UAB supporters to win an election. Not their target demo.
11-03-2017 05:28 PM
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BirminghamJoseph2770 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
So, It' in the headlines, That's good.
(This post was last modified: 11-08-2017 03:22 PM by BirminghamJoseph2770.)
11-07-2017 05:37 PM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #8
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
Totally agree with this measure. Should have never been tax exempt to start with.
11-07-2017 09:29 PM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #9
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-07-2017 09:29 PM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  Totally agree with this measure. Should have never been tax exempt to start with.

If you feel this way it's only logical that cities shouldn't build these facilities at all

FWIW, I would agree on NFL stadiums, but collegiate stadiums are by and large for other state institutions. If any city/state bond is going to be tax exempt, one that pays for a government facility used by a government entity (a public university) should be tax exempt
11-08-2017 08:01 AM
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ATTALLABLAZE Offline
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Post: #10
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
The project will be the BJCC renovation and expansion. It just happens to include a stadium in that expansion.

one time I built a stadium expansion that was actually a dorm room project with press box and luxury suites on top.

There are lots of ways to skin a cat.


Reality is if the movers and shakers have convinced the Mayor it will move forward. If not................ There will be a plan B but he City can forget about collecting any revenue.
11-08-2017 08:45 AM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #11
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-08-2017 08:01 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  If you feel this way it's only logical that cities shouldn't build these facilities at all

FWIW, I would agree on NFL stadiums, but collegiate stadiums are by and large for other state institutions. If any city/state bond is going to be tax exempt, one that pays for a government facility used by a government entity (a public university) should be tax exempt

I have no issues with cities building whatever facilities they want with local funds. I think the facility Hoover recently built is going to be a huge boon to that city and will definitely be worth the tax money that went into it. That doesn't mean they should be exempt from federal taxes while doing so.

As to your second point, the BJCC stadium isn't being built for the college itself. It fits more in line with the argument against NFL stadiums being tax exempt than it does with an argument over college stadiums. I imagine UAB could still issue tax exempt bonds for capital improvements. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that this change would affect college-specific bond issues.
(This post was last modified: 11-08-2017 09:03 AM by imjustafatkid.)
11-08-2017 09:02 AM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #12
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-08-2017 09:02 AM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 08:01 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  If you feel this way it's only logical that cities shouldn't build these facilities at all

FWIW, I would agree on NFL stadiums, but collegiate stadiums are by and large for other state institutions. If any city/state bond is going to be tax exempt, one that pays for a government facility used by a government entity (a public university) should be tax exempt

I have no issues with cities building whatever facilities they want with local funds. I think the facility Hoover recently built is going to be a huge boon to that city and will definitely be worth the tax money that went into it. That doesn't mean they should be exempt from federal taxes while doing so.

As to your second point, the BJCC stadium isn't being built for the college itself. It fits more in line with the argument against NFL stadiums being tax exempt than it does with an argument over college stadiums. I imagine UAB could still issue tax exempt bonds for capital improvements. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that this change would affect college-specific bond issues.

I don't see a difference between a UAB project and a BJCC project. The BJCC isn't building it and then leasing it out at below market rates to a professional for-profit team. The BJCC is building it and retaining ownership and management as the governmental entity that it is. Should Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta be built with tax exempt bonds? Honestly I don't care, but I see the logic in the argument that the answer should be no. But saying the BJCC shouldn't be able to build something with tax exempt bonds when what they're doing is no different than the city building a new City Hall with tax exempt munis doesn't make any sense
11-08-2017 01:47 PM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #13
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-08-2017 01:47 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I don't see a difference between a UAB project and a BJCC project. The BJCC isn't building it and then leasing it out at below market rates to a professional for-profit team. The BJCC is building it and retaining ownership and management as the governmental entity that it is. Should Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta be built with tax exempt bonds? Honestly I don't care, but I see the logic in the argument that the answer should be no. But saying the BJCC shouldn't be able to build something with tax exempt bonds when what they're doing is no different than the city building a new City Hall with tax exempt munis doesn't make any sense

Perhaps that distinction is made in the bill. I'm not sure. I know the intent of the measure is to remove tax breaks for for-profit pro sports teams, though. Maybe the MLS team being housed at the BJCC complex would fall under that umbrella? I don't know, but the situations seem analogous.
11-08-2017 02:46 PM
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BirminghamJoseph2770 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
Being that UAB is the States largest employer, Its hard to believe UAB can't get what they want. Think they should get what they want. It's a Alabama system, so just wondering where the profits from UAB are going, are they going back to system of UAB, the City of Birmingham or the U of A. Just a thought. Its U of A's puppy. Just a thought. Guess the appeasement goes to UA. They should probably go back to re-investments of the proportions of where they came from and a general fund of development on where the people want them to go. Their should be a true ratio of returns/to investments and direct them accordingly.
(This post was last modified: 11-08-2017 03:41 PM by BirminghamJoseph2770.)
11-08-2017 03:31 PM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #15
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-08-2017 02:46 PM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 01:47 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I don't see a difference between a UAB project and a BJCC project. The BJCC isn't building it and then leasing it out at below market rates to a professional for-profit team. The BJCC is building it and retaining ownership and management as the governmental entity that it is. Should Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta be built with tax exempt bonds? Honestly I don't care, but I see the logic in the argument that the answer should be no. But saying the BJCC shouldn't be able to build something with tax exempt bonds when what they're doing is no different than the city building a new City Hall with tax exempt munis doesn't make any sense

Perhaps that distinction is made in the bill. I'm not sure. I know the intent of the measure is to remove tax breaks for for-profit pro sports teams, though. Maybe the MLS team being housed at the BJCC complex would fall under that umbrella? I don't know, but the situations seem analogous.

There is no MLS team housed at the BJCC
11-08-2017 03:51 PM
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WesternBlazer Offline
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Post: #16
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-08-2017 03:51 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 02:46 PM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 01:47 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I don't see a difference between a UAB project and a BJCC project. The BJCC isn't building it and then leasing it out at below market rates to a professional for-profit team. The BJCC is building it and retaining ownership and management as the governmental entity that it is. Should Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta be built with tax exempt bonds? Honestly I don't care, but I see the logic in the argument that the answer should be no. But saying the BJCC shouldn't be able to build something with tax exempt bonds when what they're doing is no different than the city building a new City Hall with tax exempt munis doesn't make any sense

Perhaps that distinction is made in the bill. I'm not sure. I know the intent of the measure is to remove tax breaks for for-profit pro sports teams, though. Maybe the MLS team being housed at the BJCC complex would fall under that umbrella? I don't know, but the situations seem analogous.

There is no MLS team housed at the BJCC

I, too, see no reason this bill would apply to anything built downtown. While UAB would be a primary tenant, it is not built primarily for them. They would not own it or have any real sayso in how its managed...

The new USL soccer team will play in UAB's new, updated soccer complex...
11-08-2017 05:00 PM
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GreenMississippi Offline
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Post: #17
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-08-2017 08:45 AM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  The project will be the BJCC renovation and expansion. It just happens to include a stadium in that expansion.

one time I built a stadium expansion that was actually a dorm room project with press box and luxury suites on top.

There are lots of ways to skin a cat.


Reality is if the movers and shakers have convinced the Mayor it will move forward. If not................ There will be a plan B but he City can forget about collecting any revenue.
Homewood? 05-stirthepot
11-08-2017 05:59 PM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #18
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-08-2017 03:51 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 02:46 PM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 01:47 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I don't see a difference between a UAB project and a BJCC project. The BJCC isn't building it and then leasing it out at below market rates to a professional for-profit team. The BJCC is building it and retaining ownership and management as the governmental entity that it is. Should Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta be built with tax exempt bonds? Honestly I don't care, but I see the logic in the argument that the answer should be no. But saying the BJCC shouldn't be able to build something with tax exempt bonds when what they're doing is no different than the city building a new City Hall with tax exempt munis doesn't make any sense

Perhaps that distinction is made in the bill. I'm not sure. I know the intent of the measure is to remove tax breaks for for-profit pro sports teams, though. Maybe the MLS team being housed at the BJCC complex would fall under that umbrella? I don't know, but the situations seem analogous.

There is no MLS team housed at the BJCC

You kidding? Discussions with the MLS team have been a part of building the new stadium from the start.
11-09-2017 10:15 AM
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imjustafatkid Offline
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Post: #19
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-08-2017 05:00 PM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 03:51 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 02:46 PM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 01:47 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I don't see a difference between a UAB project and a BJCC project. The BJCC isn't building it and then leasing it out at below market rates to a professional for-profit team. The BJCC is building it and retaining ownership and management as the governmental entity that it is. Should Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta be built with tax exempt bonds? Honestly I don't care, but I see the logic in the argument that the answer should be no. But saying the BJCC shouldn't be able to build something with tax exempt bonds when what they're doing is no different than the city building a new City Hall with tax exempt munis doesn't make any sense

Perhaps that distinction is made in the bill. I'm not sure. I know the intent of the measure is to remove tax breaks for for-profit pro sports teams, though. Maybe the MLS team being housed at the BJCC complex would fall under that umbrella? I don't know, but the situations seem analogous.

There is no MLS team housed at the BJCC

I, too, see no reason this bill would apply to anything built downtown. While UAB would be a primary tenant, it is not built primarily for them. They would not own it or have any real sayso in how its managed...

The new USL soccer team will play in UAB's new, updated soccer complex...

That doesn't seem to be the understanding of the soccer team...

http://www.alabamanewscenter.com/2017/08...dium-bjcc/
11-09-2017 10:17 AM
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WesternBlazer Offline
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Post: #20
RE: New tax bill would kill breaks for sports stadiums
(11-09-2017 10:17 AM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 05:00 PM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 03:51 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 02:46 PM)imjustafatkid Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 01:47 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I don't see a difference between a UAB project and a BJCC project. The BJCC isn't building it and then leasing it out at below market rates to a professional for-profit team. The BJCC is building it and retaining ownership and management as the governmental entity that it is. Should Mercedes Benz Stadium in Atlanta be built with tax exempt bonds? Honestly I don't care, but I see the logic in the argument that the answer should be no. But saying the BJCC shouldn't be able to build something with tax exempt bonds when what they're doing is no different than the city building a new City Hall with tax exempt munis doesn't make any sense

Perhaps that distinction is made in the bill. I'm not sure. I know the intent of the measure is to remove tax breaks for for-profit pro sports teams, though. Maybe the MLS team being housed at the BJCC complex would fall under that umbrella? I don't know, but the situations seem analogous.

There is no MLS team housed at the BJCC

I, too, see no reason this bill would apply to anything built downtown. While UAB would be a primary tenant, it is not built primarily for them. They would not own it or have any real sayso in how its managed...

The new USL soccer team will play in UAB's new, updated soccer complex...

That doesn't seem to be the understanding of the soccer team...

http://www.alabamanewscenter.com/2017/08...dium-bjcc/

That was in August. Start below link at post #27.
http://csnbbs.com/thread-831879-post-147...id14742894
11-09-2017 11:47 AM
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