(11-01-2017 05:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This is a bad question to start off with. It will give you as good of an answer as "What has Trump done to save the country?". There are no real answers backed with evidence in either direction.

That's not entirely fair, we have some numbers of how much US taxpayer money he's spent at his establishments.

(11-01-2017 05:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This is a bad question to start off with. It will give you as good of an answer as "What has Trump done to save the country?". There are no real answers backed with evidence in either direction.

We'd be better off asking why we should/shouldn't have confidence in Trump thus far.

Right now we're at the stage where your school has had a new football coach for a year and he the same 4 win season that your last coach had before he left the post. Even if things look the same, there are some signs regarding whether he does or doesn't deserve confidence for the future.

I agree with this. Additionally, as anyone that understands how our political system works, a good deal of what Trump wants to see happen requires the participation of congress........we will eventually see if Congress chooses to participate. It's the way the system is set up..

(11-01-2017 05:53 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 05:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This is a bad question to start off with. It will give you as good of an answer as "What has Trump done to save the country?". There are no real answers backed with evidence in either direction.

That's not entirely fair, we have some numbers of how much US taxpayer money he's spent at his establishments.

That's an annoyance, but you'd have a hard time finding numbers that say this is ruining the country. He wouldn't be ruining the country any more than politicians across the country.

(11-01-2017 12:28 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 11:39 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:49 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't think he's ruined the country, I just think he's been a genuinely bad president.

Why do you think that though? How can you come on here and make such a blanket statement without providing a basis for that statement? Don't you agree that it's intellectually lazy?

I was more correcting the entire premise of the thread in general, and pointing out the tiresome hyperbole, but I will absolutely go into more depth if you want.

• His blatant disregard for the Emoluments Clause, and his refusing to divest or even attampt any sort of transparency to show he is not making a profit off of taxpayer money. He is charging taxpayers for him to stay at his resort, and no one in the GOP seems to seriously care about this 3rd World Country-level corruption.
• So many of his Departmental Head nominees are ludicrously inexperienced and it's transparent they are only there due to their loyalty to Trump. DeVos? Carson? Pruitt? Perry? Clovis? These are the best people?
• His countless unethical actions, from asking Comey and others to pledge their loyalty, to interviewing district attorneys, to trying to influence an ongoing investigation by making false statements. I can go on for dozens of examples here if you'd like, but let's not dwell.
• His seeming lack of interest in understanding even the most basic concepts of the platform he campaigned on. His Opiod Emergency action provided f*ck-all to a real, pressing issue that is killing Americans, and all the healthcare bills the GOP write and he supports go directly against his campaign promises.
• His inability to find any fault in his own actions, and constant aggrandizing to such a ludicrous degree it seems borderline comical. From claiming he had the biggest crowds, to giving himself a 10/10 on PR, to claiming he has accomplished more than any other president, are all just ludicrous, and erode confidence in the office itself.
• His EO's have been a nightmare. They're worded and presented so that they're open to legal challenges, and his own bellicose nature is often their undoing. The Transgender ban the military didn't want or ask for is yet another example, and adjudicating it cost us more money.
• The tax bill he is currently touting is a downright bad proposal, and disproportionately affects the middle and lower classes.
• His attacking the judiciary and media for ruling or reporting against him is dangerous for our Republic, and anyone who has even the most basic grasp of 20th century history would know this.
• The people he has chosen to surround himself with have been repeatedly caught making dishonest statements regarding their financial disclosures, and meetings with Russian officials. From Kushner, to Flynn, to Manafort, to half a dozen others, it's unprecedented.
• He and his administrations problem with trying to write off private travel as government work, or doing their government travel on private jets. Where is the fiscal responsibility?
• His appropriating southern history as his own, without having any familial or historical connection to it whatsoever.
• His hypocrisy. He criticized Obama for the very things he is doing even moreso himself as President. It's unbecoming, and should be political suicide, yet his voter base doesn't seem to care. The unemployment number was fake while he was running, yet now he points to it that hes President. The economy is failing, now it's succeeding. And his strain of hypocrisy is only spreading throughout the party.
  

There are certainly more if you want, and I can provide sources for any of the claims I made up there if anyone wants a specific source.

Sure.

Where did you copy and paste that from?

We can start there.

Thx!

(11-01-2017 10:52 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 12:28 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 11:39 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 10:49 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't think he's ruined the country, I just think he's been a genuinely bad president.

Why do you think that though? How can you come on here and make such a blanket statement without providing a basis for that statement? Don't you agree that it's intellectually lazy?

I was more correcting the entire premise of the thread in general, and pointing out the tiresome hyperbole, but I will absolutely go into more depth if you want.

• His blatant disregard for the Emoluments Clause, and his refusing to divest or even attampt any sort of transparency to show he is not making a profit off of taxpayer money. He is charging taxpayers for him to stay at his resort, and no one in the GOP seems to seriously care about this 3rd World Country-level corruption.
• So many of his Departmental Head nominees are ludicrously inexperienced and it's transparent they are only there due to their loyalty to Trump. DeVos? Carson? Pruitt? Perry? Clovis? These are the best people?
• His countless unethical actions, from asking Comey and others to pledge their loyalty, to interviewing district attorneys, to trying to influence an ongoing investigation by making false statements. I can go on for dozens of examples here if you'd like, but let's not dwell.
• His seeming lack of interest in understanding even the most basic concepts of the platform he campaigned on. His Opiod Emergency action provided f*ck-all to a real, pressing issue that is killing Americans, and all the healthcare bills the GOP write and he supports go directly against his campaign promises.
• His inability to find any fault in his own actions, and constant aggrandizing to such a ludicrous degree it seems borderline comical. From claiming he had the biggest crowds, to giving himself a 10/10 on PR, to claiming he has accomplished more than any other president, are all just ludicrous, and erode confidence in the office itself.
• His EO's have been a nightmare. They're worded and presented so that they're open to legal challenges, and his own bellicose nature is often their undoing. The Transgender ban the military didn't want or ask for is yet another example, and adjudicating it cost us more money.
• The tax bill he is currently touting is a downright bad proposal, and disproportionately affects the middle and lower classes.
• His attacking the judiciary and media for ruling or reporting against him is dangerous for our Republic, and anyone who has even the most basic grasp of 20th century history would know this.
• The people he has chosen to surround himself with have been repeatedly caught making dishonest statements regarding their financial disclosures, and meetings with Russian officials. From Kushner, to Flynn, to Manafort, to half a dozen others, it's unprecedented.
• He and his administrations problem with trying to write off private travel as government work, or doing their government travel on private jets. Where is the fiscal responsibility?
• His appropriating southern history as his own, without having any familial or historical connection to it whatsoever.
• His hypocrisy. He criticized Obama for the very things he is doing even moreso himself as President. It's unbecoming, and should be political suicide, yet his voter base doesn't seem to care. The unemployment number was fake while he was running, yet now he points to it that hes President. The economy is failing, now it's succeeding. And his strain of hypocrisy is only spreading throughout the party.
  

There are certainly more if you want, and I can provide sources for any of the claims I made up there if anyone wants a specific source.

Sure.

Where did you copy and paste that from?

We can start there.

Thx!

What a silly comment. You're on the internet, if you actually think I copied and pasted that, you can easily search yourself and see. Maybe you'd then comment on the substance of my post instead of lazily dismissing me with a claim you're not even willing to back up with any sort of evidence.

John, is that you ol' buddy? Thought you were banned.

(11-01-2017 05:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 05:53 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 05:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This is a bad question to start off with. It will give you as good of an answer as "What has Trump done to save the country?". There are no real answers backed with evidence in either direction.

That's not entirely fair, we have some numbers of how much US taxpayer money he's spent at his establishments.

That's an annoyance, but you'd have a hard time finding numbers that say this is ruining the country. He wouldn't be ruining the country any more than politicians across the country.

It's not that he's ruining the country by bankrupting it, it's that it's unbelievably unethical and amounts to blatant corruption at the highest level.

(11-01-2017 05:36 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm sorry thats the impression you've gotten, I'm certainly not trying to portray myself as above throwing barbs, but I try not to start it, and I do give evidence the weight it deserves.

But as you've shown you are more than happy to play loose with the facts.

(11-01-2017 05:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This is a bad question to start off with. It will give you as good of an answer as "What has Trump done to save the country?". There are no real answers backed with evidence in either direction.

We'd be better off asking why we should/shouldn't have confidence in Trump thus far.

Right now we're at the stage where your school has had a new football coach for a year and he the same 4 win season that your last coach had before he left the post. Even if things look the same, there are some signs regarding whether he does or doesn't deserve confidence for the future.

It's not a "bad" question given the rhetoric coming from mouthpieces on the left including everybody from actors and comedians to politicians. So much of the 'opposition' to Trump's presidency and criticisms involve over-the-top claims and obvious exaggerations about how terrible he is and how he is "ruining" the country. That's why I posed the original question. So far the legitimate response to the question has been severely lacking of substance (less a reply by one of the "Owls" and UCF08) given the widely reported 95% negative coverage that Trump has received. One would think that this thread would be full of bullet-pointed lists detailing Trump's miss-steps that have sent the US on a sure path to ruin. Not surprisingly, it has turned out to be mostly regurgitated rhetoric with relatively little substance.

Nomad, you analogy is actually spot on. Obama's strengths and Trump's strengths are in vastly different areas, as are their weaknesses. You sorta nailed the point of the thread, that despite many on the left pulling a Chicken Little and some of the hard-core right painting pictures of rainbows and puppies, the net change through Trump's first year as president is much more middle of the road than either side claims.

The economy is chugging along, due in part to Trump's campaign promises but still facing major hurdles regarding Obamacare and his tax plan due to the resistance he has met with establishment republicans. On the other end of the spectrum, world tensions seems to be increasing due to Trump's America First foreign policy.

(11-02-2017 07:35 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 05:36 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm sorry thats the impression you've gotten, I'm certainly not trying to portray myself as above throwing barbs, but I try not to start it, and I do give evidence the weight it deserves.

But as you've shown you are more than happy to play loose with the facts.

Not really, no. You've found one situation where I mistated something and you've followed me around since, ignoring flagrant lies from other posters to prove some idiotic point that doesn't need proving. Fact check everything I say, please, fact check everything everyone here says. I've never portrayed myself as above being wrong, I've explicitly stated otherwise multiple times, so this crush you have on me is actually pretty embarrassing on your part. Well, at least for the handful of posters here who have some semblance of objectivity left.

(11-02-2017 11:24 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 07:35 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 05:36 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm sorry thats the impression you've gotten, I'm certainly not trying to portray myself as above throwing barbs, but I try not to start it, and I do give evidence the weight it deserves.

But as you've shown you are more than happy to play loose with the facts.

Not really, no. You've found one situation where I mistated something and you've followed me around since, ignoring flagrant lies from other posters to prove some idiotic point that doesn't need proving. Fact check everything I say, please, fact check everything everyone here says. I've never portrayed myself as above being wrong, I've explicitly stated otherwise multiple times, so this crush you have on me is actually pretty embarrassing on your part. Well, at least for the handful of posters here who have some semblance of objectivity left.

LOL

Well kid you don't have to worry about it anymore. I was willing to give you a chance if you admitted you made up your own facts but since you are unrepentant you can go on ignore with the rest of the dishonest and dishonorable.

(11-02-2017 11:28 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 11:24 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 07:35 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 05:36 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm sorry thats the impression you've gotten, I'm certainly not trying to portray myself as above throwing barbs, but I try not to start it, and I do give evidence the weight it deserves.

But as you've shown you are more than happy to play loose with the facts.

Not really, no. You've found one situation where I mistated something and you've followed me around since, ignoring flagrant lies from other posters to prove some idiotic point that doesn't need proving. Fact check everything I say, please, fact check everything everyone here says. I've never portrayed myself as above being wrong, I've explicitly stated otherwise multiple times, so this crush you have on me is actually pretty embarrassing on your part. Well, at least for the handful of posters here who have some semblance of objectivity left.

LOL

Well kid you don't have to worry about it anymore. I was willing to give you a chance if you admitted you made up your own facts but since you are unrepentant you can go on ignore with the rest of the dishonest and dishonorable.

No. Stop. Please. Don't.

(11-02-2017 07:51 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 05:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This is a bad question to start off with. It will give you as good of an answer as "What has Trump done to save the country?". There are no real answers backed with evidence in either direction.

We'd be better off asking why we should/shouldn't have confidence in Trump thus far.

Right now we're at the stage where your school has had a new football coach for a year and he the same 4 win season that your last coach had before he left the post. Even if things look the same, there are some signs regarding whether he does or doesn't deserve confidence for the future.

It's not a "bad" question given the rhetoric coming from mouthpieces on the left including everybody from actors and comedians to politicians. So much of the 'opposition' to Trump's presidency and criticisms involve over-the-top claims and obvious exaggerations about how terrible he is and how he is "ruining" the country. That's why I posed the original question. So far the legitimate response to the question has been severely lacking of substance (less a reply by one of the "Owls" and UCF08) given the widely reported 95% negative coverage that Trump has received. One would think that this thread would be full of bullet-pointed lists detailing Trump's miss-steps that have sent the US on a sure path to ruin. Not surprisingly, it has turned out to be mostly regurgitated rhetoric with relatively little substance.

Nomad, you analogy is actually spot on. Obama's strengths and Trump's strengths are in vastly different areas, as are their weaknesses. You sorta nailed the point of the thread, that despite many on the left pulling a Chicken Little and some of the hard-core right painting pictures of rainbows and puppies, the net change through Trump's first year as president is much more middle of the road than either side claims.

The economy is chugging along, due in part to Trump's campaign promises but still facing major hurdles regarding Obamacare and his tax plan due to the resistance he has met with establishment republicans. On the other end of the spectrum, world tensions seems to be increasing due to Trump's America First foreign policy.

Fair enough. Let's not say that it was a bad question, but there was no way that it was going to be productive.

(11-02-2017 11:24 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 07:35 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 05:36 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm sorry thats the impression you've gotten, I'm certainly not trying to portray myself as above throwing barbs, but I try not to start it, and I do give evidence the weight it deserves.

But as you've shown you are more than happy to play loose with the facts.

Not really, no. You've found one situation where I mistated something and you've followed me around since, ignoring flagrant lies from other posters to prove some idiotic point that doesn't need proving. Fact check everything I say, please, fact check everything everyone here says. I've never portrayed myself as above being wrong, I've explicitly stated otherwise multiple times, so this crush you have on me is actually pretty embarrassing on your part. Well, at least for the handful of posters here who have some semblance of objectivity left.

It's clear you despise posting here, yet you continue. Why?