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Legend
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fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
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10-31-2017 07:03 AM |
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umbluegray
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
I personally think lobbying efforts amount to little more than legalized bribery.
I have talked with several state-level politicians, some of whom represent me and others from other districts, and they explain a bit about the lobby efforts.
During the days while they are in session they are continuously visited by lobbyists. Rarely do they hear from individual citizens.
They hear from the citizens during campaign events. But once the campaign is over, the lobbyists are in full force shaping their perception of legislation.
There are two continuous cycles in a politicians time in office:
1. The Election Cycle
2. The Legislative Cycle
These cycles exist in a loop.
The Election Cycle is the time the politician interacts primarily with the people. This typically is of short duration.
The Legislative Cycle is much longer in duration. During this time the politician is interacting with paid lobbyists and other politicians, typically with selfish motives driving those interactions.
Society might be better served if we banned lobbying.
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10-31-2017 10:36 AM |
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stinkfist
nuts zongo's in the house
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
(10-31-2017 10:36 AM)umbluegray Wrote: I personally think lobbying efforts amount to little more than legalized bribery.
I have talked with several state-level politicians, some of whom represent me and others from other districts, and they explain a bit about the lobby efforts.
During the days while they are in session they are continuously visited by lobbyists. Rarely do they hear from individual citizens.
They hear from the citizens during campaign events. But once the campaign is over, the lobbyists are in full force shaping their perception of legislation.
There are two continuous cycles in a politicians time in office:
1. The Election Cycle
2. The Legislative Cycle
These cycles exist in a loop.
The Election Cycle is the time the politician interacts primarily with the people. This typically is of short duration.
The Legislative Cycle is much longer in duration. During this time the politician is interacting with paid lobbyists and other politicians, typically with selfish motives driving those interactions.
Society might be better served if we banned lobbying.
lobbyists and how they currently conduct 'business' is in my top 3 of why I hate politics.....
times.....they are a changing.....
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10-31-2017 12:50 PM |
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tigergreen
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
(10-31-2017 10:36 AM)umbluegray Wrote: Society might be better served if we banned lobbying.
100% agree.
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10-31-2017 12:54 PM |
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Owl 69/70/75
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
(10-31-2017 12:54 PM)tigergreen Wrote: (10-31-2017 10:36 AM)umbluegray Wrote: Society might be better served if we banned lobbying.
100% agree.
Problem is, you can't do that. Some lobbying serves a useful purpose. For example, any time you consider a law that impacts a certain industry, it is important to get that industry's input into what the effects will be. Otherwise, we would have even more legislation with adverse unintended consequences.
Unless we want our legislators passing stupid and harmful laws all the time, we need some method of getting reality inserted into the system. The problem is when that lobbying goes too far. As long as congress critters have such a cushy ride, and as long as hanging onto their seat remains so attractive, and as long as elections keep costing so much, the temptations are always going to be there.
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10-31-2017 01:26 PM |
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Lord Stanley
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
Remember as well, you the voter are a lobbyist. You can spend as much or as little time in the office of your State Rep, your Congresscritter, or any other elected politician as you desire to lobby for your cause.
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10-31-2017 01:36 PM |
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stinkfist
nuts zongo's in the house
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
(10-31-2017 01:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (10-31-2017 12:54 PM)tigergreen Wrote: (10-31-2017 10:36 AM)umbluegray Wrote: Society might be better served if we banned lobbying.
100% agree.
Problem is, you can't do that. Some lobbying serves a useful purpose. For example, any time you consider a law that impacts a certain industry, it is important to get that industry's input into what the effects will be. Otherwise, we would have even more legislation with adverse unintended consequences.
Unless we want our legislators passing stupid and harmful laws all the time, we need some method of getting reality inserted into the system. The problem is when that lobbying goes too far. As long as congress critters have such a cushy ride, and as long as hanging onto their seat remains so attractive, and as long as elections keep costing so much, the temptations are always going to be there.
which is why I included "how they currently conduct business".....
I think you would agree the under the table dealings is basically legalized corruption, eh?
I believe that's the overall point that is being made....
and there is no question that increasing the pay scale coupled with term limits would change how that portion of the game is being played....how that gets accomplished is an entire other entity....
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10-31-2017 01:36 PM |
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Owl 69/70/75
Just an old rugby coach
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
(10-31-2017 01:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote: (10-31-2017 01:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (10-31-2017 12:54 PM)tigergreen Wrote: (10-31-2017 10:36 AM)umbluegray Wrote: Society might be better served if we banned lobbying.
100% agree.
Problem is, you can't do that. Some lobbying serves a useful purpose. For example, any time you consider a law that impacts a certain industry, it is important to get that industry's input into what the effects will be. Otherwise, we would have even more legislation with adverse unintended consequences.
Unless we want our legislators passing stupid and harmful laws all the time, we need some method of getting reality inserted into the system. The problem is when that lobbying goes too far. As long as congress critters have such a cushy ride, and as long as hanging onto their seat remains so attractive, and as long as elections keep costing so much, the temptations are always going to be there.
which is why I included "how they currently conduct business".....
I think you would agree the under the table dealings is basically legalized corruption, eh?
I believe that's the overall point that is being made....
and there is no question that increasing the pay scale coupled with term limits would change how that portion of the game is being played....how that gets accomplished is an entire other entity....
If you want to get money out of politics, first get politics out of money. The more government gets to pick winners and losers, the more those who want to be winners will be tempted/encouraged to try to buy influence.
I quoted a short essay by Milton Friedman from about page 40 of CAPITALISM AND FREEDOM, outlining his concept of what government should and should not be and do. His ideal government would have very little corrupt lobbying, because there would be little of nothing to be gained. The areas that he would redline government out of are primarily the most fertile grounds for political influence peddling today.
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10-31-2017 01:56 PM |
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bullet
Legend
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
(10-31-2017 01:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (10-31-2017 12:54 PM)tigergreen Wrote: (10-31-2017 10:36 AM)umbluegray Wrote: Society might be better served if we banned lobbying.
100% agree.
Problem is, you can't do that. Some lobbying serves a useful purpose. For example, any time you consider a law that impacts a certain industry, it is important to get that industry's input into what the effects will be. Otherwise, we would have even more legislation with adverse unintended consequences.
Unless we want our legislators passing stupid and harmful laws all the time, we need some method of getting reality inserted into the system. The problem is when that lobbying goes too far. As long as congress critters have such a cushy ride, and as long as hanging onto their seat remains so attractive, and as long as elections keep costing so much, the temptations are always going to be there.
Yes, there is a lot of bad stuff that gets fixed by lobbies. Remember how DC centered Congress is. They don't understand the real world.
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10-31-2017 01:56 PM |
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umbluegray
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
I understand there is a valid reason for people to petition their government. And it makes perfect sense that a group of like-minded people band together and petition as a group.
However, those groups should not be allowed to donate to campaign funds, to foundations, etc.
And any politician that is a target of lobbyists should never be allowed to go to work for that lobbyist ever. Likewise, no one in their family should ever be allowed to, either.
There should NEVER be the appearance of any financial benefit between lobbyists and politicians - period.
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10-31-2017 02:41 PM |
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DavidSt
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
Obama wanted to banned the practice, but you see how far he got with the idea. He got push back from both parties.
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10-31-2017 03:18 PM |
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gdunn
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RE: fall of Podesta has lobbying firms scared
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10-31-2017 03:35 PM |
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