(10-29-2017 10:10 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 09:39 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 09:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I agree with many of his policies and disagree strongly with some--like immigration and trade protection.
But my real problem is that his personal attributes may make him so unattractive as to drive voters to the collectivist (socialist/communist) wing of the democrats, which I think would be catastrophic. A man named John Sununu once taught me that in politics, you have to win elections before you can dob anything, and I'm not sure Trump can win again.

I completely agree with the bold text.....however, there's roughly 37% that won't waiver.....it's the same as the dippo contingent %....so, I view that as a wash....
ol' boy is what he is.....if GDP continues to gain on 3/4% growth, all will be just fine moving forward....
what specifically are your issues with trade and immigration???......I'll admit going in, you're easily better versed on the trade side than myself.....
I don't have any problem how he's addressing immigration en macro.....I'm even savvy with the physical wall (which I initially had pegged as a figurative posit from him...I personally would do it differently)
I'd like to hear your thoughts on trade before I respond (forgive me, I know you've written much on this topic previously.....but, I'd like to hear your current view at this point)
thanks!

As far as trade, tariffs and other barriers don't have a great history of working. Often, like Smoot-Hawley in 1930, they do more harem than good. Plus in today's GATT/WTO environment, many of them simply don't comport with international law. Punitive trade restrictions are pretty much verboten.

What I do support is a national consumption tax. This is what those countries that we claim are engaging in "unfair trade practices" are actually doing. They get to levy the tax on imports--but it's not a tariff. And they get embedded VAT refunded on exports--but it's not a subsidy. We tried to do something similar with the DISC, and it got shot down. This would also allow us to lower income tax rates--both corporate and personal--to world competitive levels, which IMO would bring back more industry than tariffs would.

As far as immigration, we need more legal immigration, particularly in areas where we need skills--and less illegal immigration. I don't think the wall is the answer. I do think a vastly expanded guest worker program--with no path to citizenship--is the best way to go. We can't round up 10-20 million illegals and send them back to Mexico. Mexico becomes a failed state fairly quickly in that scenario--and we really don't want Somalia on our southern border. It would have been a much easier issue to handle had the democrats lived up to their side of the deal that Reagan and Tip O'Neill worked out. But their lack of integrity brought a lot of animosity to the issue.

we're on par with the consumption tax.....we've both beaten that dead horse...unfortunately, it's not on the table.....yet...

I don't disagree with your tariff argument.....however, what I see in DJT's attempt at trade restructuring, is it will allow the consumption tax to become a viable option moving forward....we already know he's looking for a solution so money can flow freely and evenly.....sometimes, you have to take a step backwards before the end goal is achieved.....it's obvious that TPP and NAFTA have been a drain on our workforce which lent to the dippos goal of creating a socialized welfare state (is simply another form of subsidized slavery)

I can't prescribe to your posit on immigration.....he is steadfast on legal immigration as an important function maintaining the USD machine....the only thing he's opposed to is not allowing more illegals to flow thru while targeting the ones that have committed crimes and eliminating funds to sanctuary cities/states....will there be some others that get caught up in those profiles??? of course.....so what.....I have zero sympathy when it comes to securing our borders and deporting those that get caught up in the fray when they shouldn't be here in the first place....we'll have to agree to disagree on that one....

that's my take in as few words as possible....

I hate his cabinet picks. He has picked the worst person possible to ruin each cabinet. Pruitt and DeVos have been especially nauseating. That he thinks he can bring back coal when it’s an obsolete energy is especially nauseating. That he pulled out of the Park accords..... the very real possibility that he’s Putin's ***** is unsettling.

(10-29-2017 10:53 AM)bullet Wrote:  As for Trump; a) I don't like his way of talking to and treating people; b) I don't like how it encourages division; c) I do think it fires up the extremist among the Democrats; d) It has clearly caused a lot of previously normal Democrats to become nasty and delusional, including some of my friends (my wife won't read some of their Facebooks anymore); and e) I don't think its effective. For example, McCain, Corker and Flake are acting like children and trying to throw up roadblocks to some things they would otherwise like.

it's effective for only one reason....people are paying attention again.....complacency is now outdated....and you can color me guilty of the latter the majority of my life....

#draintheswamp and #maga was by design....

(10-29-2017 10:59 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 07:05 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 06:47 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Singer was tied to the Rubio campaign. Rubio’s campaign is denying any involvement.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/po...inger.html

thanks Mach.....this one is going to get ugly very soon.....and it's going to hit both sides....

Rubio is slime....couldn't stand that guy's rhetorical bs the first time I heard him open his mouth in the first debate....

I don't think Rubio is slime. He's just not very smart. He was a front man for that car dealer in Miami and said whatever he was told to say. Christie exposed that. I think he was dead last in net worth of all the candidates. Being a lawyer and he still didn't have any assets? Tells you something about his abilities.

I wouldn't argue that.....you know me, I'm sometimes quite crass when it comes to proving a point....IMO, they're basically the same......it lends to the problem of not having term limits across the board.....

Just to add my take to one snippet of this
A) I dont like his brusk, brash, boorish ham-fisted way of doing things anymore than anyone else.

But I get it. I consider myself trying to be a polite gentleman (southern), most of the time, finds it serves me well, more often than not.

He doesn’t. His background is very different, growing up in Queens very different than the stix of then Nor Va.

B). Immigration. Agree with all the above.
People with skills we need, fine. Bring them in, they assimilate faster, add value straight away, rarely end up a burden on tax doles, services, schools etc.

Those already here? Find a short way to get them right with the law. But NO pathway to citizenship or voting rights etc unless they go all the way back to square one, where the current Lithuanian dentist is, and go through the process. To speed it up( family, law abiding, productive), then have that big, beautiful door. Go back, apply, get your card or visa or whatever, pay a fine, get in line.

Come back in legally, work, stay out of trouble and we’ll give you a look at becoming Merican in 10 yrs or do. BUT, you can live without the fear of a knock on the door at any given time.

Regards to he “wall”, that is nonnegotiable. Gotta have it, done right.
Get rid of the crap Vietnam era rapp sheet metal that’s easily cut and breached. Put in place something larger, durable, more impenetrable. See through, tough to scale, near impossible to go under. Augment that with improved surveillance methods, motion sensor lights that activate every xxx # of feet or yards, drones in heavy crossed areas etc. lots of nice shiny new schit out there, let’s use some of if.

Could we do all those things without an actual “wall”?

Why yes, yes we could. And that’s why the wall is nonnegotiable.

Cause we could also NOT do all those things without the wall...

We need a permanent structure in place for the next time we get an unapologetic open borders socialist in office that thinks it’s everyone’s God given right to come squat in our country.

No thanks. Without the wall all it takes is one budget freeze or policy change and it’s a hop on the bus, Gus Free -for-all once again.

Build the damn wall. Near everyone else has...

(10-29-2017 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  If I was polled, I would be one of the ones with a negative opinion of Trump. But I like what he is doing as opposed to what he is saying. I was concerned he might be a full scale Democrat under his talk, but since his election he has been doing all the right conservative things on judges, government regulations and policy.

that's what MATTERS!

(10-29-2017 11:20 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Just to add my take to one snippet of this
A) I dint like his brisk, brash, boorish ham-fisted way of doing things.

But I get it. I consider myself trying to be a polite gentleman (southern), most of the time, finds it serves me well, more often than not.

He doesn’t. His background is very different, growing up in Queens very different than the stix of then Nor Va.

B). Immigration. Agree with all the above.
People with skills we need, fine. Bring Ben in, they assimilate faster, add value straight away, rarely end up a burden on tax doles, services, schools etc. those here? Find a swat ringer then right with the law. But NO pathway to citizenship or voting rights etc unless they go all the way back to square one, where the current Lithuanian dentist is, and go through the process. To speed it up( family, law abiding, productive), then have that “. If beautiful door. Go back, apply, get your card or visa or whatever, pay a fine, get in line.

Come back in legally, work, stay out of trouble and we’ll give you a look at becoming Merican in 10 yrs or do. BUT, you can live without the fear of a knock in the door at any given time.

Regards to he “wall”, that is nonnegotiable. Gotta have, done right.
It the crap Vietnam era rapp sheer metal that’s easily cut and breached. But something larger, durable, more impenetrable. See through, tough to scale, near impossible to go under. Augment that with improved surveillance methods, motion sensor lights that activate every xxx # of feet or yards, drones in heavy crossed areas etc. lots of nice shiny new schit out there, let’s use some of if.

Could we do all those things without an actual “wall”?

Why yes, yes we could. And that’s why the wall is nonnegotiable.

Cause we could also NOT do all that without the wall...

We need a permanent structure in place for the next time we get an unapologetic open borders socialist in office that thinks it’s everyone’s God given right to come squat in our country.

No thanks. Without the wall all it takes is one budget freeze or policy change and it’s a hop on the bus, Gus Free -for-all once again.

Build the wall. Near everyone else has...


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XACLY! and ab-so-*******-lutely!!!!

edit: and I easily agree with your prose and other posits...

(10-29-2017 11:11 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I hate his cabinet picks. He has picked the worst person possible to ruin each cabinet. Pruitt and DeVos have been especially nauseating. That he thinks he can bring back coal when it’s an obsolete energy is especially nauseating. That he pulled out of the Park accords..... the very real possibility that he’s Putin's ***** is unsettling.

Those are two of my favorites.

My school district had a HS graduation rate of less than 60% two years ago. Georgia had a constitutional amendment to have the governor take over failing schools. Graduation rate was 74% last year. It took that threat to get them to do anything. Previously they just spent their money on jobs for friends and family. Two previous superintendents and a slew of employees are in jail. Unfortunately the constitutional amendment failed (oddly enough due to suburban and rural districts) so we will see how they do with the pressure off. DeVoss will encourage states to put the pressure on without too much federal dictation.

(10-29-2017 11:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  My school district had a HS graduation rate of less than 60% two years ago. Georgia had a constitutional amendment to have the governor take over failing schools. Graduation rate was 74% last year. It took that threat to get them to do anything. Previously they just spent their money on jobs for friends and family. Two previous superintendents and a slew of employees are in jail. Unfortunately the constitutional amendment failed (oddly enough due to suburban and rural districts) so we will see how they do with the pressure off. DeVoss will encourage states to put the pressure on without too much federal dictation.

Assuming the high school isn't just passing more students through..how can anyone argue that holding the school district's feet to the fire (accountability) isn't good for these kids and their families?

(10-29-2017 11:40 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 11:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  My school district had a HS graduation rate of less than 60% two years ago. Georgia had a constitutional amendment to have the governor take over failing schools. Graduation rate was 74% last year. It took that threat to get them to do anything. Previously they just spent their money on jobs for friends and family. Two previous superintendents and a slew of employees are in jail. Unfortunately the constitutional amendment failed (oddly enough due to suburban and rural districts) so we will see how they do with the pressure off. DeVoss will encourage states to put the pressure on without too much federal dictation.

Assuming the high school isn't just passing more students through..how can anyone argue that holding the school district's feet to the fire (accountability) isn't good for these kids and their families?

Which they aren't (or at least they are doing more than that). They are doing a lot more tutoring and things targeted to the kids in the schools instead of the district office. There are statewide tests that count 20% of the grade in most core courses, so you have to have some learning.

Arrest Tony Podesta and he will squeal like a stuck pig.