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EvilVodka Offline
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Post: #21
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
I don't usually watch MLB or really care much about it, but I watched it this year because of the Astros. Two things I noticed about the league...

-The small number of Southern baseball teams

-the small size of the playoffs

I think if they add teams, they should expand the presence in the south
12-17-2017 09:37 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #22
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-17-2017 12:19 PM)bluesox Wrote:  32 does make sense but hard to see it happen without fixing Oakland and TB stadiums.

This.

MLB will let the A's and Rays have the option (or just threat) of moving elsewhere in order to get their ballpark issues settled. There won't be any serious discussion of expansion until those two franchises are done with their efforts to get new ballparks.
12-17-2017 09:43 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #23
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-17-2017 09:37 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I don't usually watch MLB or really care much about it, but I watched it this year because of the Astros. Two things I noticed about the league...

-The small number of Southern baseball teams

-the small size of the playoffs

I think if they add teams, they should expand the presence in the south

There's no non-current market that could realistically support a team. They would have had to have been there for generations. Maybe Austin or the Chesapeake Bay cities could but that's about it. The rest are either too small or have too many teams, if not both.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2017 12:12 AM by _C2_.)
12-17-2017 11:33 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #24
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-17-2017 09:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 12:19 PM)bluesox Wrote:  32 does make sense but hard to see it happen without fixing Oakland and TB stadiums.

This.

MLB will let the A's and Rays have the option (or just threat) of moving elsewhere in order to get their ballpark issues settled. There won't be any serious discussion of expansion until those two franchises are done with their efforts to get new ballparks.

The Giants should get with the program and let the A's move to San Jose. Or the A's can get with the program and realize that, relatively speaking, the Bay Area isn't as large as it used to be and move somewhere else, like Portland.
12-18-2017 12:42 AM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #25
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-18-2017 12:42 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 09:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 12:19 PM)bluesox Wrote:  32 does make sense but hard to see it happen without fixing Oakland and TB stadiums.

This.

MLB will let the A's and Rays have the option (or just threat) of moving elsewhere in order to get their ballpark issues settled. There won't be any serious discussion of expansion until those two franchises are done with their efforts to get new ballparks.

The Giants should get with the program and let the A's move to San Jose. Or the A's can get with the program and realize that, relatively speaking, the Bay Area isn't as large as it used to be and move somewhere else, like Portland.

What do you mean by that? Relative to what? Portland metro population is about 2 MM; Bay Area is 7.
12-18-2017 01:14 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #26
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
The Bay Area may be bigger but the Giants get the lion's share of attention and fandom. The East Bay is smaller, poorer and looked down upon, whether it's fair or not. There's just not room for 2 Bay Area pro sports teams in a major sport like there used to be.
12-18-2017 01:31 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #27
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
For decades, the Bay Area was easily the fourth or fifth largest metro area and pound-for-pound the richest (because New York, for all its rich people, is weighed down by its middle, working and under classes). But now it's barely bigger than numerous metro areas.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2017 01:57 AM by _C2_.)
12-18-2017 01:52 AM
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EvilVodka Offline
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Post: #28
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-17-2017 11:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 09:37 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I don't usually watch MLB or really care much about it, but I watched it this year because of the Astros. Two things I noticed about the league...

-The small number of Southern baseball teams

-the small size of the playoffs

I think if they add teams, they should expand the presence in the south

There's no non-current market that could realistically support a team. They would have had to have been there for generations. Maybe Austin or the Chesapeake Bay cities could but that's about it. The rest are either too small or have too many teams, if not both.

You are telling me the MLB can't find a way to get two teams into Charlotte, Memphis, Nashville, Birmingham, New Orleans, or San Antonio??
12-18-2017 10:02 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #29
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-18-2017 12:42 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 09:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 12:19 PM)bluesox Wrote:  32 does make sense but hard to see it happen without fixing Oakland and TB stadiums.

This.

MLB will let the A's and Rays have the option (or just threat) of moving elsewhere in order to get their ballpark issues settled. There won't be any serious discussion of expansion until those two franchises are done with their efforts to get new ballparks.

The Giants should get with the program and let the A's move to San Jose. Or the A's can get with the program and realize that, relatively speaking, the Bay Area isn't as large as it used to be and move somewhere else, like Portland.

The A's ownership has looked into other markets. Local TV revenue would take a big hit moving from the Bay Area to Portland, even if the Mariners didn't complain or demand compensation for taking the Oregon TV homes out of their "home market". Sacramento or any other available market would have the same problem. And they still have to find several hundred million to build a new ballpark in any possible market -- or they can spend half that much and turn the Coliseum into a baseball-only park like the Angels did at Angel Stadium after the Rams moved out.

As for San Jose, MLB told the A's ownership that the Giants had the right to block the A's moving there. The A's could offer to pay the Giants, and probably have, but I'm guessing the Giants want a helluva lot more than the A's want to pay. Giants' ownership still has a huge bank debt for their ballpark, and they would likely want a very large amount (wild guess: $100 million) that would go toward paying that debt down. It doesn't work financially for the A's ownership to pay that much to the Giants and also pay to build a new ballpark in San Jose from scratch.
12-18-2017 11:03 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #30
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-18-2017 10:02 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 11:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 09:37 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I don't usually watch MLB or really care much about it, but I watched it this year because of the Astros. Two things I noticed about the league...

-The small number of Southern baseball teams

-the small size of the playoffs

I think if they add teams, they should expand the presence in the south

There's no non-current market that could realistically support a team. They would have had to have been there for generations. Maybe Austin or the Chesapeake Bay cities could but that's about it. The rest are either too small or have too many teams, if not both.

You are telling me the MLB can't find a way to get two teams into Charlotte, Memphis, Nashville, Birmingham, New Orleans, or San Antonio??

What did I just say? They already have too many teams or aren't big enough, if not both.

You might be trying to be sarcastic, I can't tell.
12-18-2017 01:55 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #31
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-18-2017 11:03 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-18-2017 12:42 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 09:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-17-2017 12:19 PM)bluesox Wrote:  32 does make sense but hard to see it happen without fixing Oakland and TB stadiums.

This.

MLB will let the A's and Rays have the option (or just threat) of moving elsewhere in order to get their ballpark issues settled. There won't be any serious discussion of expansion until those two franchises are done with their efforts to get new ballparks.

The Giants should get with the program and let the A's move to San Jose. Or the A's can get with the program and realize that, relatively speaking, the Bay Area isn't as large as it used to be and move somewhere else, like Portland.

The A's ownership has looked into other markets. Local TV revenue would take a big hit moving from the Bay Area to Portland, even if the Mariners didn't complain or demand compensation for taking the Oregon TV homes out of their "home market". Sacramento or any other available market would have the same problem. And they still have to find several hundred million to build a new ballpark in any possible market -- or they can spend half that much and turn the Coliseum into a baseball-only park like the Angels did at Angel Stadium after the Rams moved out.

As for San Jose, MLB told the A's ownership that the Giants had the right to block the A's moving there. The A's could offer to pay the Giants, and probably have, but I'm guessing the Giants want a helluva lot more than the A's want to pay. Giants' ownership still has a huge bank debt for their ballpark, and they would likely want a very large amount (wild guess: $100 million) that would go toward paying that debt down. It doesn't work financially for the A's ownership to pay that much to the Giants and also pay to build a new ballpark in San Jose from scratch.

Interesting...I guess it goes back to what I was saying about there being no good unavailable markets left in the MLB...unless they wanted to triple up in New York or LA.
12-18-2017 02:03 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #32
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(12-16-2017 02:27 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(12-15-2017 11:32 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Move the Rays somewhere that basically has already failed as an MLB host despite 2 World Series titles? They might as well stay where they are. The Marlins might as well stay, at least Miami has some potential being so close to Latin America. But I'd move the Marlins to New Jersey, Yankees be damned, and Rays to LA...well, at least if I were an owner who wanted to make money. There's no new market that can can do much better than any current MLB market.

In all honesty, the megalopolis that is NY/NJ/NE could definitely handle another franchise. Used to be 3 teams in NYC in the old days, seemed to work fine. And it also happens to be the region of the country where fans are most likely to really engage and be passionate about the sport.

The only challenges would be overcoming long time loyalties to the teams that are already there. That and convincing the other owners it would work.

The loyalties part would be the hardest to overcome, what baseball fan in New York already isn't tied to the Mets or Yankees? That's one of the biggest hidden problems the Marlins and Rays have had to deal with, coming into a city full of transplants and getting people to shift lifetime allegiances during the age of cable television and internet. The best chance of the MLB getting some good fan bases are where there's a decent home-grown population base (e.g. San Antonio, Montreal would be my two picks). But yeah, they won't do anything so long as the Tampa Bay and Oakland situations are still in flux.
12-18-2017 10:23 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #33
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
San Antonio doesn't have enough disposable income. Until recently, it was a miracle that they could support the Spurs, who likely would have moved if they hadn't been so good for so long. They still struggle with attendance during the regular season.

Montreal at least used to have a team but I'd still be surprised if they could support one today. I'd just be surprised if any market that doesn't currently have a team could support one. Population density is one thing but over 80% of all current MLB franchises have been there for generations.
12-19-2017 04:13 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #34
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
Or in other words, even if a place has enough population, they still have to keep fans once the novelty wears off.
12-19-2017 04:19 AM
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Phlipper33 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
Group in Portland making offers on two parcels of land that Would support a 32,000 seat MLB ballpark and mixed use development.

https://twitter.com/bizballmaury/status/...00416?s=21
04-17-2018 10:35 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #36
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
32k? That's very small, you build bigger just in case. And you make sure to build the excess in a less than obvious spot or a place that could be naturally tarped off, if not both.
04-18-2018 02:28 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #37
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(04-18-2018 02:28 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  32k? That's very small, you build bigger just in case. And you make sure to build the excess in a less than obvious spot or a place that could be naturally tarped off, if not both.

Well, there actually aren't a ton of MLB franchises that average more than that.

That and frankly, some of these ballparks are far too big. The thing about baseball is you really need to be fairly close to the diamond to see what's going on although there's a certain appeal to seats in the outfield as well.

I think ballparks should be more intimate in general and a smaller park would probably be cheaper to build as well as help justify more expensive seats.
04-18-2018 05:09 AM
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Phlipper33 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
Yeah my first thought was that 32k is really small as well, however the Rangers are currently building a new stadium downsizing from 49k to 39k. If 39k is big enough for DFW then I suppose 32k is big enough for Portland.

One other thing I saw mentioned in the follow up tweets is that this is just for a stadium, this group is not (currently) considered a potential ownership group of a franchise.
04-18-2018 08:52 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #39
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
It's not about averging 32k, it's about making sure you have more than enough seats for the biggest games. Even 37k seems significantly bigger than 32k.
04-18-2018 09:11 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #40
RE: MLB Expansion/Realignment
(04-18-2018 09:11 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  It's not about averging 32k, it's about making sure you have more than enough seats for the biggest games. Even 37k seems significantly bigger than 32k.

If you can charge more per-ticket for 32,000 seats because of higher demand, then you might make more money than you would with 37,000 seats.

Because the in-home experience is so good now, it's nuts for anyone to build a new stadium, ballpark, or arena with 1970s or 1980s capacity. Better to have fewer seats and create demand or envy among people who couldn't get in and might pay more next time to get in.

IMO, they are building too many seats into the new LA football stadium because they are stuck in old-stadium thinking. 60,000 would be better than 70,000.
04-18-2018 10:52 AM
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