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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Football Recruiting
(10-19-2017 01:21 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(10-18-2017 09:01 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  I was going to let it slide, but you're right, many around here these days highly overrate the Dantonio years. He did a nice job taking the program to a higher level (i.e. the Big East), but it was a slow ride with a lot of stops and starts and ups and downs and highs and lows. It was only the last half of his last year here that we seemed to have finally turned the corner.

Thinking back, this is really spot on. It seemed a slow build with Dantonio and he left before really reaping the rewards of developing a championship team. Wasn't Treadwell his offensive coordinator? Best man in Dantonio's wedding as I heard it and Mark was reluctant to dump him for an upgrade. We saw what happened with Treadwell as head coach up the road in Oxford.

This is all accurate but it doesn't mean Dantonio didn't do a great job here. You have to remember Minter knew he was on thin ice and brought in an inordinate amount of JUCOs to try to survive until the BE came. He gets fired and I think we had 30 or more seniors Dantonios first year. He should've done better early but that team played great ball late in the year until Gino breaks his hand and we stomp on the Cardinal. Due to Minters stacking the classes we start year 2 as our first year in the BE with the youngest team in the country and as you'd assume you jump up in competition with a young team and you're uncompetitive. Year 3 we're still one of the youngest teams in the country and they begin to develop eventually beating undefeated Rutgers in what was probably the birth of the UC glory years. To turn it around so quickly was incredible and Dantonio easily gets an A for his time here. There's no way anyone would've thought 7-5 in year two of the BE was a remote possibility. The only thing keeping him from an A+ is the early struggles with a veteran team including the Army loss.
 
10-19-2017 01:56 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Football Recruiting
(10-19-2017 01:56 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(10-19-2017 01:21 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(10-18-2017 09:01 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  I was going to let it slide, but you're right, many around here these days highly overrate the Dantonio years. He did a nice job taking the program to a higher level (i.e. the Big East), but it was a slow ride with a lot of stops and starts and ups and downs and highs and lows. It was only the last half of his last year here that we seemed to have finally turned the corner.

Thinking back, this is really spot on. It seemed a slow build with Dantonio and he left before really reaping the rewards of developing a championship team. Wasn't Treadwell his offensive coordinator? Best man in Dantonio's wedding as I heard it and Mark was reluctant to dump him for an upgrade. We saw what happened with Treadwell as head coach up the road in Oxford.

This is all accurate but it doesn't mean Dantonio didn't do a great job here. You have to remember Minter knew he was on thin ice and brought in an inordinate amount of JUCOs to try to survive until the BE came. He gets fired and I think we had 30 or more seniors Dantonios first year. He should've done better early but that team played great ball late in the year until Gino breaks his hand and we stomp on the Cardinal. Due to Minters stacking the classes we start year 2 as our first year in the BE with the youngest team in the country and as you'd assume you jump up in competition with a young team and you're uncompetitive. Year 3 we're still one of the youngest teams in the country and they begin to develop eventually beating undefeated Rutgers in what was probably the birth of the UC glory years. To turn it around so quickly was incredible and Dantonio easily gets an A for his time here. There's no way anyone would've thought 7-5 in year two of the BE was a remote possibility. The only thing keeping him from an A+ is the early struggles with a veteran team including the Army loss.

I'm not disagreeing with most of this. My point is... things were bad in year 2, that team made a ton of mental mistakes and really struggled. There were a lot of holes with very little upper class help. This team has a lot in common with that 2nd year Dantonio team, except the young guys aren't as far along and it probably has a bit more talented upper class (but still relatively thin).

I think Dantonio was a mixed bag here and was still finding himself as a head coach, but he absolutely found and developed a ton of talent and put UC in a position to really succeed the 3 years after he left.
 
10-19-2017 02:04 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Football Recruiting
(10-19-2017 02:04 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(10-19-2017 01:56 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(10-19-2017 01:21 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(10-18-2017 09:01 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  I was going to let it slide, but you're right, many around here these days highly overrate the Dantonio years. He did a nice job taking the program to a higher level (i.e. the Big East), but it was a slow ride with a lot of stops and starts and ups and downs and highs and lows. It was only the last half of his last year here that we seemed to have finally turned the corner.

Thinking back, this is really spot on. It seemed a slow build with Dantonio and he left before really reaping the rewards of developing a championship team. Wasn't Treadwell his offensive coordinator? Best man in Dantonio's wedding as I heard it and Mark was reluctant to dump him for an upgrade. We saw what happened with Treadwell as head coach up the road in Oxford.

This is all accurate but it doesn't mean Dantonio didn't do a great job here. You have to remember Minter knew he was on thin ice and brought in an inordinate amount of JUCOs to try to survive until the BE came. He gets fired and I think we had 30 or more seniors Dantonios first year. He should've done better early but that team played great ball late in the year until Gino breaks his hand and we stomp on the Cardinal. Due to Minters stacking the classes we start year 2 as our first year in the BE with the youngest team in the country and as you'd assume you jump up in competition with a young team and you're uncompetitive. Year 3 we're still one of the youngest teams in the country and they begin to develop eventually beating undefeated Rutgers in what was probably the birth of the UC glory years. To turn it around so quickly was incredible and Dantonio easily gets an A for his time here. There's no way anyone would've thought 7-5 in year two of the BE was a remote possibility. The only thing keeping him from an A+ is the early struggles with a veteran team including the Army loss.

I'm not disagreeing with most of this. My point is... things were bad in year 2, that team made a ton of mental mistakes and really struggled. There were a lot of holes with very little upper class help. This team has a lot in common with that 2nd year Dantonio team, except the young guys aren't as far along and it probably has a bit more talented upper class (but still relatively thin).

I think Dantonio was a mixed bag here and was still finding himself as a head coach, but he absolutely found and developed a ton of talent and put UC in a position to really succeed the 3 years after he left.

That's about how I see it too. There were some serious "lows" that people seem to have forgotten about beyond the UL beatdown and the Army debacle: heck, we even lost to UAB. So I don't see the overall "easy A" of another poster - in fact he needed that final push his last year just to get to .500 for his career at UC.

The truth is I can recall quite a few posters on this very forum calling for his head early on that final season. I didn't want to lose him, but I was kind of surprised he was a take at that point for a pretty mediocre MSU program. I think his previous assistant status there was the determining factor along with his apparent discipline/organization reputation coming off some chaotic years at MSU (19-37 in the Big 10 since Saban left).

I thought and still think BK was a big upgrade. Sure Dantonio left him some talent, but guys like Binns, Gilyard ('s return), Mauk, Collaros, John Hughes, Alex Hoffman and Drew Frey among others were all 1st year BK additions iirc.
 
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2017 04:47 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
10-19-2017 03:21 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Football Recruiting
Ugh. Saw this posted on twitter. UL had this exact sign a few years ago and I made fun of them. One of these things is a value. The others are rules. How about honesty and be a decent human being.

[Image: DMhaVyIUQAEZDwc?format=jpg&name=large]
 
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2017 04:29 PM by BeerCat.)
10-19-2017 04:28 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Football Recruiting
This is way OT, but this thread is probably redundant and in the wrong section so what the heck. Aside from the inflated idea many seem to have about Dantonio's time at UC, his reputation as no-nonsense, Mr. Clean also shows remarkable teflon resiliency at least as far as his team goes especially the last few years.

Here's an article from June on some of the more recent stuff:

Timeline of Michigan State football's ongoing legal, off-field issues

I wasn't even going to bring any of this up, but right after my previous post I stumbled across the latest and couldn't resist:

MSU football's LJ Scott arrested, faces 7th charge for driving without a valid license

By the way that's 7 just since Feb 2016 and that does NOT include whatever reason his license was suspended in the first place. But hey, "Scott ran for a career-high 194 yards in last week's win against Minnesota..."
 
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2017 04:45 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
10-19-2017 04:41 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Football Recruiting
(10-19-2017 04:28 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Ugh. Saw this posted on twitter. UL had this exact sign a few years ago and I made fun of them. One of these things is a value. The others are rules. How about honesty and be a decent human being.

[Image: DMhaVyIUQAEZDwc?format=jpg&name=large]

Add "No Guns" and you have Charlie Strong's "Core Values" from Louisville.
 
10-19-2017 04:55 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Football Recruiting
(10-19-2017 04:55 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(10-19-2017 04:28 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Ugh. Saw this posted on twitter. UL had this exact sign a few years ago and I made fun of them. One of these things is a value. The others are rules. How about honesty and be a decent human being.

[Image: DMhaVyIUQAEZDwc?format=jpg&name=large]

Add "No Guns" and you have Charlie Strong's "Core Values" from Louisville.

After what Alex Thomas decided to do, we should probably add that line...
 
10-19-2017 05:19 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Football Recruiting
Well, the upside is it's not a decoration that Butch Jones put up when he first got the UC gig.
 
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2017 06:11 PM by rath v2.0.)
10-19-2017 06:10 PM
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