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Declining football participation
https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-pol...cte-fears/

Series of articles out there written by different people claiming HS football participation is down. Didn't readily find the AP one in Sunday's Atlanta paper that had a map along with stats. Participation is down 3.5% nationally over the last 5 years. Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Maryland, New York, Vermont, Connecticut and North Carolina are down more than 10%. 28 states are down from zero to 9%. Only 9 states are up. Mississippi, Alabama, Oklahoma, Arizona and Utah are up 10% or more. Florida, Georgia, New Mexico and Colorado are up, but less than 10%.

Good news for SEC. Bad news for Big 10.
10-17-2017 11:54 AM
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Big Frog II Online
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RE: Declining football participation
The Big 10 states are aging. Fewer kids mean fewer football players. That will affect those colleges in those areas in the future.
10-17-2017 12:01 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
That's because football has shifted away from being a participation sport like it was in the 70s-90s to an actual planned skill. Football is not different than a parent who pushes their kid to be a Doctor from a young age. You see these extremely athletic parents pass on athletic genes to kids. And then they get started from a very young age with sports.

And the other kids even at a young age know when they are physically inferior to other kids. I was in church one time and I remember one of the ministers kids saying "Dad, I wish I was as fast as those black kids. I don't think I should play anymore" People are starting to see reality. If your dad is 5'7 and your mom is chubby you probably will not breed a football player. And is it worth it to encourage your kid to play and risk the injuries?
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2017 12:34 PM by TrojanCampaign.)
10-17-2017 12:33 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Declining football participation
I think we're seeing that specialization at all levels of youth sports and it's getting more and more intense.

I spoke to the basketball coach at the middle school (*not* high school) that my kids will attend in a couple of years and he said that a kid isn't realistically making a middle school basketball team in our district today without multiple years of travel team experience. You can say the same for soccer and baseball. Once again, we're talking about *middle* school (not high school).
10-17-2017 12:59 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
I think there's several reasons.

One would be the obvious safety issues. Now that concussions are a major issue and brain injuries are a major concern, parents are less willing to let their children play games such as football. There are other options available. Another would be the changing attitudes of the younger generations towards sports and participation. I also believe that the "everyone gets a trophy" philosophy has had the effect of dampening people's desire for competition.
10-17-2017 01:15 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
Soccer has been a boom in the Cities in NC. However, HS Football is still king on Friday nights. While I an not surprised we are seeing the CTE from the 70's - 90's. I think the game now understands the importance of the head shots. Remember back in the day when Water was considered a privilege in practice. Forearms to the head and head slaps were legeal. I do think the media has overhyped the CTE and snowflakes are over reacting. Especially when the majority of the brains scanned have been football players that had issues. I think it is a situation that needs monitored but with safety rules being installed, it will be interesting to see what the results in the futre will be.
10-17-2017 01:51 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 12:59 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think we're seeing that specialization at all levels of youth sports and it's getting more and more intense.

I spoke to the basketball coach at the middle school (*not* high school) that my kids will attend in a couple of years and he said that a kid isn't realistically making a middle school basketball team in our district today without multiple years of travel team experience. You can say the same for soccer and baseball. Once again, we're talking about *middle* school (not high school).

Right. Good athletes, who would have played three sports many years ago, are one-sport athletes today. A 9th grade baseball player who skips fall travel ball to play high school football might fall behind in his baseball coach's pecking order and not be a starter the next spring and summer. If he becomes just a pinch-hitter or late-inning sub on his travel ball team, he has little chance of getting noticed by college baseball recruiters. It has decreased the participation levels in every sport that would have been the all-around athlete's second or third sport.

Also, the emphasis on transitioning kids onto travel teams as early as possible makes even the younger kids' recreational programs more intense, with the side effect that the kids who only want to play recreationally either drop out earlier or never play in an organized recreational program at all, and that further reduces youth participation levels.
10-17-2017 01:55 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
This website can really help clarify the reality of college scholarships.

http://www.scholarshipstats.com/default.htm

On the flip side, if you can find an affordable lower division school, and probably even a fair number of Division One schools, and want to walk onto certain teams for no scholarship, not too many coaches are going to turn you down.
10-17-2017 02:44 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
Fewer parents want to deal with the hassles.
Fewer kids feel the need to participate in sports for social reasons.
10-17-2017 03:03 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 01:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 12:59 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think we're seeing that specialization at all levels of youth sports and it's getting more and more intense.

I spoke to the basketball coach at the middle school (*not* high school) that my kids will attend in a couple of years and he said that a kid isn't realistically making a middle school basketball team in our district today without multiple years of travel team experience. You can say the same for soccer and baseball. Once again, we're talking about *middle* school (not high school).

Right. Good athletes, who would have played three sports many years ago, are one-sport athletes today. A 9th grade baseball player who skips fall travel ball to play high school football might fall behind in his baseball coach's pecking order and not be a starter the next spring and summer. If he becomes just a pinch-hitter or late-inning sub on his travel ball team, he has little chance of getting noticed by college baseball recruiters. It has decreased the participation levels in every sport that would have been the all-around athlete's second or third sport.

Also, the emphasis on transitioning kids onto travel teams as early as possible makes even the younger kids' recreational programs more intense, with the side effect that the kids who only want to play recreationally either drop out earlier or never play in an organized recreational program at all, and that further reduces youth participation levels.

And this is a huge problem - sports were meant to be recreational at heart.

Competitive is good, but the extreme measures that go into "youth sports" is insane. One of my co-worker's sons wanted to play Soccer at his HS, along with his club, but his club coach wouldn't allow it.
10-17-2017 03:15 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 01:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Also, the emphasis on transitioning kids onto travel teams as early as possible makes even the younger kids' recreational programs more intense, with the side effect that the kids who only want to play recreationally either drop out earlier or never play in an organized recreational program at all, and that further reduces youth participation levels.

Yeah, I work with a guy who has his son involved with a ton of traveling teams for soccer and basketball since a very young age. It almost seems redundant to other leagues out there, like a select one. It's just a constant thing...I don't know how he does it.

I think recruiting at the college level got extremely lazy over the years, and relies too heavily on a few systems and programs as the top of the feeders. This boggles my mind; athletic operations and staffing has grown so much over the years, and this "pecking order" system is streamlined enough to cause me to wonder what the heck these people even do to warrant a staffing line. This isn't the old days with videos and calls and visits...top programs have a cluster of guys they call, and the vetting goes from there.

It's ravaged football in PA. You used to find talent all over the public and private school systems in the state, but, you had some (like Paterno at PSU) who wouldn't touch you if you didn't come from certain schools (like, why go to the public program when this private school is closer by?). That method started to become a thing. And, in PA, PIAA let in Philly's Catholic league, pretty much destroying football in the suburbs (Bucks, Montgomery, and Delaware at least), much like it did to Philly School District years earlier. Where public school is still not such a bad thing, you're going out past the Main Line (like Downingtown) or up to Allentown. This traveling coach works with that school's coaches, and he talks to these programs all of the time. It's not wonder that some of the guys who get coaching jobs in PA's public systems aren't just anyone...they're ex-D1 or pro players who might be able to jump past "the system" the private schools already had in place.

I hate what's becoming of sports in this country. I'll encourage participation, but probably more so in an obscure program that isn't so darn corrupted and tiered. It's not about the love of any game anymore.
10-17-2017 03:18 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 03:18 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I think recruiting at the college level got extremely lazy over the years, and relies too heavily on a few systems and programs as the top of the feeders.

The power doesn't only go one way. Those strong HS program coaches can hold grudges as well, as was the rumor regarding an NIU coach and the Chicago Public League basketball schools.

Are you telling me a CPL kid shouldn't get an education at NIU because two grown men can't get along? Only losers in all this, as is usual when dealing with powerful narcissistic adults, are the kids.
10-17-2017 03:30 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 03:18 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I think recruiting at the college level got extremely lazy over the years, and relies too heavily on a few systems and programs as the top of the feeders.

For college sports other than football and men's basketball, I could understand that because the resources for recruiting are very limited. They recruit from travel teams because they are getting athletes who have competed in the sport for several years at progressively more competitive levels. Also, because coaching staffs are stretched thin, it's efficient to have a coach spend a weekend at a large tournament of travel teams, because the coach can watch many potential recruits in 2-3 days.
10-17-2017 03:48 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 11:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-pol...cte-fears/

Series of articles out there written by different people claiming HS football participation is down. Didn't readily find the AP one in Sunday's Atlanta paper that had a map along with stats. Participation is down 3.5% nationally over the last 5 years. Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Maryland, New York, Vermont, Connecticut and North Carolina are down more than 10%. 28 states are down from zero to 9%. Only 9 states are up. Mississippi, Alabama, Oklahoma, Arizona and Utah are up 10% or more. Florida, Georgia, New Mexico and Colorado are up, but less than 10%.

Good news for SEC. Bad news for Big 10.


Moms just don't want their kids playing football anymore.

http://www.headcasecompany.com/concussio...ons_sports
Concussion Rates per Sport

Football: 64 -76.8
Boys' ice hockey: 54
Girl's soccer: 33
Boys' lacrosse: 40 - 46.6
Girls' lacrosse: 31 - 35
Boys' soccer: 19 - 19.2
Boys' wrestling: 22 - 23.9
Girls' basketball: 18.6 - 21
Girls' softball: 16 - 16.3
Boys' basketball: 16 - 21.2
Girls' field hockey: 22 - 24.9
Cheerleading: 11.5 to 14
Girls' volleyball: 6 - 8.6
Boys' baseball: Between 4.6 - 5
Girls' gymnastics: 7
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2017 03:53 PM by XLance.)
10-17-2017 03:52 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 11:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-pol...cte-fears/

Series of articles out there written by different people claiming HS football participation is down. Didn't readily find the AP one in Sunday's Atlanta paper that had a map along with stats. Participation is down 3.5% nationally over the last 5 years. Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Maryland, New York, Vermont, Connecticut and North Carolina are down more than 10%. 28 states are down from zero to 9%. Only 9 states are up. Mississippi, Alabama, Oklahoma, Arizona and Utah are up 10% or more. Florida, Georgia, New Mexico and Colorado are up, but less than 10%.

Good news for SEC. Bad news for Big 10.

Trump effect on NFL. 05-stirthepot
10-17-2017 05:44 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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RE: Declining football participation
It also declined by 61 schools who dropped football (11,9, or 6 man) in 2017.
https://www.nfhs.org/articles/high-schoo...lion-mark/

A 3% drop is only approximately 27K kids.
10-17-2017 06:35 PM
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 03:48 PM)Wedge Wrote:  For college sports other than football and men's basketball, I could understand that because the resources for recruiting are very limited. They recruit from travel teams because they are getting athletes who have competed in the sport for several years at progressively more competitive levels. Also, because coaching staffs are stretched thin, it's efficient to have a coach spend a weekend at a large tournament of travel teams, because the coach can watch many potential recruits in 2-3 days.

That's a tactic happening in soccer, volleyball, and lacrosse, too. Can't forget camps.

Where it comes to limited resources, I'll sell. There's more money and larger staffing lines running through football and basketball; the ever-rising salary lines aren't for increased responsibilities but for retention. I'd argue the expansion of staff in football and basketball programs is due to responsibilities taken off of your head coach and top coordinators and assistants and the need for their address elsewhere among the staff.

And camps, if coaches get in on that action, is frosting for compensation. It also looks like a pay-for-play scheme. You pay money for your kid to be seen by coaches and assistants because it's likely they won't bother coming out to see your kid otherwise.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2017 04:38 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
10-18-2017 04:38 AM
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 12:59 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think we're seeing that specialization at all levels of youth sports and it's getting more and more intense.

I spoke to the basketball coach at the middle school (*not* high school) that my kids will attend in a couple of years and he said that a kid isn't realistically making a middle school basketball team in our district today without multiple years of travel team experience. You can say the same for soccer and baseball. Once again, we're talking about *middle* school (not high school).

Not good for their overall health and for things like overuse injuries.

Baseball has always been skill based. But they are doing it in other sports too.
10-18-2017 09:53 AM
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 02:44 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  This website can really help clarify the reality of college scholarships.

http://www.scholarshipstats.com/default.htm

On the flip side, if you can find an affordable lower division school, and probably even a fair number of Division One schools, and want to walk onto certain teams for no scholarship, not too many coaches are going to turn you down.

I worked with someone who wanted to walk on to the Texas baseball team. He went to coach Gustaffson and was asked, "What round were you drafted in?" End of discussion.
10-18-2017 09:56 AM
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RE: Declining football participation
(10-17-2017 06:35 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  It also declined by 61 schools who dropped football (11,9, or 6 man) in 2017.
https://www.nfhs.org/articles/high-schoo...lion-mark/

A 3% drop is only approximately 27K kids.

In only 5 years and in 41 of 50 states when school population is growing is pretty significant.
10-18-2017 09:59 AM
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