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Questions on the LA Chargers
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
IMO weekend traffic on LA freeways is not much better, if at all, than weekday traffic. Would be close to 3 hours each way from San Diego to Inglewood.

Depending on San Diego for a significant portion of LA Chargers' ticket sales would be like depending on selling thousands of season tickets to people living in Indio or Palm Desert, even if you didn't have to consider the hard feelings about the Chargers leaving SD.
07-19-2019 03:39 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
Considering it's a few weekends a year with an occasional Monday or Thursday game, 3 hours is nothing, especially IF long time fans didn't immediately cut ties with the team. That's like Milwaukee-Green Bay or most of Upstate NY and Ontario to Buffalo.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2019 08:29 PM by _C2_.)
07-19-2019 07:08 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-19-2019 07:08 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Considering its a few weekends a year with an occasional Monday or Thursday game, 3 hours is nothing, especially IF long time fans didn't immediately cut ties with the team. That's like Milwaukee-Green Bay or most of Upstate NY and Ontario to Buffalo.

The Chargers sure as hell aren't the Packers. In terms of tradition or history of success or anything else.

For nearly all NFL teams, the season ticket holders who live 3 hours from the stadium are outliers. I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find a Broncos season ticket holder who lives in New Mexico and maybe another who lives in Nebraska, but the team isn't depending on people from that far away to buy thousands of season tickets.
07-19-2019 08:25 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
But did the Packers leave a place but stay close enough for the jilted fans to still realistically attend games without needing a hotel? It still works because of that.

I'm not saying they didn't lose or alienate their San Diego base but I'd be shocked if it were totally gone.
07-19-2019 08:32 PM
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Brookes Owl Online
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Post: #25
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
We had this conversation back when the Chargers proposed the move: 1) Chargers fans freaking hate Spanos and don’t want to give him a dime to reward his actions. Most of the few remaining fans will be tv only; 2) And you should know, as Wedge said, SD to LA (Carson or Inglewood; doesn’t matter) is a **** drive every day of the week and only a diehard SoCal football fan would make that kind of commute. Raiders? Yep. Chargers? No way.

Speaking of which, the stories are correct. Stubhub was 50% or more visiting fans all year. Hell, it was a home game for the Raiders.
07-20-2019 01:13 AM
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EvilVodka Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
San Antonio is dying for a team, look at how they supported the AAF team

The Alamodome isn't big enough per NFL rich jerks, but wonderful LA can have two teams
07-21-2019 05:01 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
The AAF didn't even have a full season and I heard some negative reviews about San Antonio.
07-21-2019 06:46 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-20-2019 01:13 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  We had this conversation back when the Chargers proposed the move: 1) Chargers fans freaking hate Spanos and don’t want to give him a dime to reward his actions. Most of the few remaining fans will be tv only; 2) And you should know, as Wedge said, SD to LA (Carson or Inglewood; doesn’t matter) is a **** drive every day of the week and only a diehard SoCal football fan would make that kind of commute. Raiders? Yep. Chargers? No way.

Speaking of which, the stories are correct. Stubhub was 50% or more visiting fans all year. Hell, it was a home game for the Raiders.

The Chargers knew when they decided to make the move from San Diego that the most popular NFL football team in Southern California was the Raiders. They saw the Raider fans annually take over Qualcomm stadium in San Diego. The Raiders have a much more extensive radio network than the Chargers, with as much radio coverage in Southern California as the Chargers. The Raiders will be moving closer to LA next season, which will not help the Chargers.

I don't see the driving to games as an issue on Sunday, the bigger issue, is it worth it? The new stadium is going to be terrific, but will the product on the field be entertaining? Whether a person is driving from Palm Springs or Palmdale or Irvine or Oceanside, will the time spent be worth it?

The Chargers have to win. There are not going to get points for just being here. The Chargers do have a following. It was said that almost 25% of their season ticket holders in San Diego were north of San Diego County. I just never see the passion with their fans, at least not anything comparable to Raiders fans. With Raiders fans, their mantra is: "Win, lose or tie. Raiders till I die!" The Chargers marketing theme is "Fight for LA." That needs some work.
07-22-2019 12:17 PM
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Brookes Owl Online
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Post: #29
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-22-2019 12:17 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I don't see the driving to games as an issue on Sunday, the bigger issue, is it worth it? The new stadium is going to be terrific, but will the product on the field be entertaining? Whether a person is driving from Palm Springs or Palmdale or Irvine or Oceanside, will the time spent be worth it?

The bolded sections are contradictory. Your last question is exactly the statement nearly every Southern Californian asks him/herself every time they get in the car to do just about anything besides go to work.

Quote:The Chargers do have a following. It was said that almost 25% of their season ticket holders in San Diego were north of San Diego County

And if it was true, last season proved that very few of them followed the team north.

It's always going to be a value proposition but I just don't see fans in SD waiting for the Chargers to win and then deciding to buy tickets. They've washed their hands of Spanos. The Chargers are counting on LA to deliver fans and you're right - they'll have to win to get them. But that applies to the Rams as well. When the Rams were in LA the first go-round that wasn't the case but I think now we're at the point where only the Dodgers get that kind of loyalty.
07-22-2019 12:39 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-22-2019 12:39 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 12:17 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I don't see the driving to games as an issue on Sunday, the bigger issue, is it worth it? The new stadium is going to be terrific, but will the product on the field be entertaining? Whether a person is driving from Palm Springs or Palmdale or Irvine or Oceanside, will the time spent be worth it?

The bolded sections are contradictory. Your last question is exactly the statement nearly every Southern Californian asks him/herself every time they get in the car to do just about anything besides go to work.

Quote:The Chargers do have a following. It was said that almost 25% of their season ticket holders in San Diego were north of San Diego County

And if it was true, last season proved that very few of them followed the team north.

It's always going to be a value proposition but I just don't see fans in SD waiting for the Chargers to win and then deciding to buy tickets. They've washed their hands of Spanos. The Chargers are counting on LA to deliver fans and you're right - they'll have to win to get them. But that applies to the Rams as well. When the Rams were in LA the first go-round that wasn't the case but I think now we're at the point where only the Dodgers get that kind of loyalty.

Since I live in Southern California and have attended every Charger game in Carson, I can tell you what I see. The stadium holds 27,000 for football. The average ticket price was listed at $199 per game in 2018. The Pats were second at $127 per game. Parking is $100 per game, although there is a parking lot at $40 on the other side of the Cal State Dominguez Hills campus.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jayparis/20...aa2cdf72e8

The ticket prices will drop significantly in the new stadium and attendance will improve, probably to around 60,000 per game. For the Chargers, the question is, what percentage of the 60,000 will be rooting for the Chargers? If it is 50-50, that is not good. It is difficult for the Chargers to be playing on the road every week.

The drive is like any freeway drive in Southern California. You just deal with it. My drive to Carson for the Charger games from my home in the Inlands Empire is 60 miles. I can leave at 10:00 AM and arrive in 60-70 minutes. There is not that much traffic on the 91 freeway at that time in the morning. The 30 mile drive from Van Nuys can take the same amount of time because of the 405 freeway traffic.

The drive is basically the same for the Dodgers game or the Chargers game. The difference is the Dodgers have a winning history in LA and the Chargers do not. Plus, the Dodgers are more affordable for a family of four, although that depends on where you are sitting. I will not get on the freeway on the weekend to travel anywhere in Southern California, unless I want to. So I get what you are saying about that. The Chargers have to get people to want to go to their games.
07-22-2019 03:14 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
Let's go back to the question of how many people who live in San Diego are going to make that 3 hour drive to Inglewood 8 or 9 times a year, just to pay $100 per person per game to attend a football game that they could watch on HDTV in their own home. The answer is, not many. You're basically conceding that point when Oceanside is the only place you mention in San Diego County. Oceanside is 50 miles north of downtown San Diego. That's like using Corona to argue that all of Riverside County is just a short drive from Anaheim.
07-22-2019 04:17 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-22-2019 04:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Let's go back to the question of how many people who live in San Diego are going to make that 3 hour drive to Inglewood 8 or 9 times a year, just to pay $100 per person per game to attend a football game that they could watch on HDTV in their own home. The answer is, not many. You're basically conceding that point when Oceanside is the only place you mention in San Diego County. Oceanside is 50 miles north of downtown San Diego. That's like using Corona to argue that all of Riverside County is just a short drive from Anaheim.

In 2007, 8,800 of the season ticket holders came from the North County of San Diego. "A breakdown shows that about 20,000 of the NFL team’s season ticket holders are from the city of San Diego, 4,300 are from the South Bay, 7,400 are from East County, 8,500 are from Orange and Riverside counties, and 4,500 come from outside the state. The rest of the team’s ticket holders come from other counties in the state.

The Chargers have said that Oceanside could be an appealing new home because of the team’s strong fan base in North County and because of the proximity to Orange, Riverside and Los Angeles counties."


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdu...story.html

So this is why I chose Oceanside. About 1,000 season ticket holders were from Oceanside. If you were a Chargers season ticket holder, you were very likely coming from outside the city. Oceanside is the 3rd largest city in San Diego County with a population of 175,000. About a decade ago, they were actually considering building a stadium in Oceanside. That went nowhere. Oceanside is about 40 miles from Qualcomm Stadium (38 miles from downtown San Diego). Qualcomm was seven miles from downtown San Diego. The drive from Oceanside to the new LA Stadium is about 90 miles.

So does a season ticket holder in Oceanside drive the additional 50 miles or catch a charter bus? If you live in Temecula in southwestern riverside county, you were 55 miles from Qualcomm. The trip to LA Stadium is 90 miles from Temecula. Do you stay with the team or not?

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spo...story.html

The Chargers have their training and practice facility in Costa Mesa in Orange County. A smart move because the Chargers had a number of fans in south Orange County and North San Diego County. I attended their Blue-White practice last year and it was packed with Charger fans. I have no idea where they were coming from.

For the Chargers to be successful, they need to draw fans from all over Southern California. From the article: "About 25 percent of the team’s total season tickets come from outside the county, and 7 percent come from outside the state.

The team’s statistics show that 4,200 season ticket holders are in Orange County, another 4,200 ticket holders are in Riverside County, and 3,500 ticket holders are from Los Angeles. Most of the 4,500 season ticket holders outside of California come from the Las Vegas and Phoenix areas."


No one can predict the number of season tickets sales coming from their previous group of season ticket holders once they move into the new LA football stadium, but they should get a decent percentage of them.
07-22-2019 09:46 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-22-2019 09:46 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  About 1,000 season ticket holders were from Oceanside.

Even if half of those are still Chargers fans and don't mind all the driving time to LAX, that's 500 out of the 50,000 or so season tickets the Chargers probably hope to sell.

The 49ers might have 500 season ticket holders who live in Fresno, but my guess is they're counting on people who live much closer to their stadium to fill it. Anyone who says differently about the Chargers is just blowing smoke, like their spokesman was back when he was trying to convince people in Oceanside to build the Chargers a stadium.

At any rate, Kroenke got what he wanted. The NFL told him he had to permit another team to be a tenant in his stadium, and no doubt he's happy that it's the Chargers rather than the Raiders. Would have been a lot more difficult for the Rams if they had to share the building with the Raiders.
07-22-2019 10:18 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-22-2019 10:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 09:46 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  About 1,000 season ticket holders were from Oceanside.

Even if half of those are still Chargers fans and don't mind all the driving time to LAX, that's 500 out of the 50,000 or so season tickets the Chargers probably hope to sell.

The 49ers might have 500 season ticket holders who live in Fresno, but my guess is they're counting on people who live much closer to their stadium to fill it. Anyone who says differently about the Chargers is just blowing smoke, like their spokesman was back when he was trying to convince people in Oceanside to build the Chargers a stadium.

At any rate, Kroenke got what he wanted. The NFL told him he had to permit another team to be a tenant in his stadium, and no doubt he's happy that it's the Chargers rather than the Raiders. Would have been a lot more difficult for the Rams if they had to share the building with the Raiders.

I agree. Kroenke did not want the Raiders and I don't think the NFL did, either. The Raiders fans would have taken over that stadium. The consolation for the Raiders is Las Vegas, which looks like a very good move. It also helps UNLV get into a real stadium and gives the Pac-12 a place to stage a conference championship game and a bowl game.

I think the Chargers will easily get to 50,000 season ticket sales in the new stadium. The Chargers are offering more than 26,000 seats priced between $50 and $90 per seat, per game with an associated SSL (stadium seat license) payment of only $100 for each seat. They should do well in LA, Orange and Riverside County, with the unknown being San Diego County.
07-22-2019 11:28 PM
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Brookes Owl Online
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Post: #35
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-22-2019 09:46 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  If you live in Temecula in southwestern riverside county, you were 55 miles from Qualcomm. The trip to LA Stadium is 90 miles from Temecula. Do you stay with the team or not?

No one can predict the number of season tickets sales coming from their previous group of season ticket holders once they move into the new LA football stadium, but they should get a decent percentage of them.

(07-22-2019 11:28 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  They should do well in LA, Orange and Riverside County, with the unknown being San Diego County.

These are not unknowns. The number of San Diego County Chargers fans who will remain loyal enough to buy season tickets is pretty clear: Not very many. At best it's a few handfuls now and it's very difficult, to the point of near impossible, to imagine Chargers fans diehard enough to wait three years to buy tickets at Kroenkeville but not to StubHub/Dignity Health in the meantime.

Try this thought exercise: You're a rabid Chargers fan in, say, Del Mar. Tailgater, the whole nine yards. Spanos moves the team and you're disappointed but you love those players and damned if they don't look like they can reach the Super Bowl in a couple of years if they play their cards right. Plus, you're not as far south as a lot of folks. So yeah, you're in for Inglewood season tix in 2020! But Carson? No ******* way you're going there before the new stadium opens up. You don't love the team THAT much.
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2019 12:37 AM by Brookes Owl.)
07-23-2019 12:36 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-23-2019 12:36 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 09:46 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  If you live in Temecula in southwestern riverside county, you were 55 miles from Qualcomm. The trip to LA Stadium is 90 miles from Temecula. Do you stay with the team or not?

No one can predict the number of season tickets sales coming from their previous group of season ticket holders once they move into the new LA football stadium, but they should get a decent percentage of them.

(07-22-2019 11:28 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  They should do well in LA, Orange and Riverside County, with the unknown being San Diego County.

These are not unknowns. The number of San Diego County Chargers fans who will remain loyal enough to buy season tickets is pretty clear: Not very many. At best it's a few handfuls now and it's very difficult, to the point of near impossible, to imagine Chargers fans diehard enough to wait three years to buy tickets at Kroenkeville but not to StubHub/Dignity Health in the meantime.

Try this thought exercise: You're a rabid Chargers fan in, say, Del Mar. Tailgater, the whole nine yards. Spanos moves the team and you're disappointed but you love those players and damned if they don't look like they can reach the Super Bowl in a couple of years if they play their cards right. Plus, you're not as far south as a lot of folks. So yeah, you're in for Inglewood season tix in 2020! But Carson? No ******* way you're going there before the new stadium opens up. You don't love the team THAT much.

I hope you didn't spend too much time on that thought exercise. The Chargers play in a stadium in Carson that seats 27,000. They will be moving to a stadium that seats 70,000 in 2020. The average ticket price in Carson is $199 per game, easily the highest in the NFL. That will drop significantly in the new stadium.

It will not be difficult for the Chargers to sell 50,000 season tickets at the new stadium. If 10% of those come from San Diego County, you are looking at 5,000 season tickets from San Diego County. That would be perfect for the Chargers. For Charger fans, they can drive it, take a Charter bus or fly from San Diego to LAX. The LAX airport is three miles from the new stadium.

The citizens of San Diego did not want to use any public money to help Spanos built a new stadium. I think it was the right decision. The citizens in LA felt the same way. It took a billionaire using private funds to built the stadium in LA. So the San Diego fans got screwed. If they want to watch an NFL game live, they drive up to LA. Most will watch the games from home. But there will still be some that travel to LA. They will adjust. At least they venue will be much nicer and their taxes will not be paying for it.
07-25-2019 12:38 PM
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Brookes Owl Online
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Post: #37
RE: Questions on the LA Chargers
(07-25-2019 12:38 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(07-23-2019 12:36 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  
(07-22-2019 09:46 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  If you live in Temecula in southwestern riverside county, you were 55 miles from Qualcomm. The trip to LA Stadium is 90 miles from Temecula. Do you stay with the team or not?

No one can predict the number of season tickets sales coming from their previous group of season ticket holders once they move into the new LA football stadium, but they should get a decent percentage of them.

(07-22-2019 11:28 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  They should do well in LA, Orange and Riverside County, with the unknown being San Diego County.

These are not unknowns. The number of San Diego County Chargers fans who will remain loyal enough to buy season tickets is pretty clear: Not very many. At best it's a few handfuls now and it's very difficult, to the point of near impossible, to imagine Chargers fans diehard enough to wait three years to buy tickets at Kroenkeville but not to StubHub/Dignity Health in the meantime.

Try this thought exercise: You're a rabid Chargers fan in, say, Del Mar. Tailgater, the whole nine yards. Spanos moves the team and you're disappointed but you love those players and damned if they don't look like they can reach the Super Bowl in a couple of years if they play their cards right. Plus, you're not as far south as a lot of folks. So yeah, you're in for Inglewood season tix in 2020! But Carson? No ******* way you're going there before the new stadium opens up. You don't love the team THAT much.

I hope you didn't spend too much time on that thought exercise. The Chargers play in a stadium in Carson that seats 27,000. They will be moving to a stadium that seats 70,000 in 2020. The average ticket price in Carson is $199 per game, easily the highest in the NFL. That will drop significantly in the new stadium.

It will not be difficult for the Chargers to sell 50,000 season tickets at the new stadium. If 10% of those come from San Diego County, you are looking at 5,000 season tickets from San Diego County. That would be perfect for the Chargers. For Charger fans, they can drive it, take a Charter bus or fly from San Diego to LAX. The LAX airport is three miles from the new stadium.

The citizens of San Diego did not want to use any public money to help Spanos built a new stadium. I think it was the right decision. The citizens in LA felt the same way. It took a billionaire using private funds to built the stadium in LA. So the San Diego fans got screwed. If they want to watch an NFL game live, they drive up to LA. Most will watch the games from home. But there will still be some that travel to LA. They will adjust. At least they venue will be much nicer and their taxes will not be paying for it.

What point are you trying to make here? We've already agreed several times in this thread that the Chargers will struggle to put their fans in the new stadium. I think the only thing we disagree on is the willingness of remaining SD Chargers fans to commute to LA to watch their team. I didn't say the Chargers won't sell tickets; I said they won't sell many of them to SD Chargers fans who love the team enough to follow them to Inglewood but not Carson. LAX? That's hilarious. There is zero chance a significant number of fans will spend all that time in SAN and LAX, with the requisite parking and security hassles, not to mention the cost of a ticket, when driving would take the same amount of time and cost a lot less. If SD fans aren't coming to Carson in significant numbers it defies logic they'd come to Inglewood. Are there folks waiting for prices to come down? Sure; ok. Enough to really impact attendance? Nope. 5K (which honestly seems high based on what's going on in Carson) in a 70K stadium? I think the point stands: The Chargers don't care about SD fans. They're not catering to them. They're depending on LA (metro) to support the team. You know who IS marketing San Diego? The Rams. (I think this is weird but it still bolsters the point that Chargers have lost SD.)
07-25-2019 01:08 PM
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