(10-15-2017 08:51 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:39 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:35 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:24 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Throwing anything but a hail Mary to end the half last night was incomprehensible.

The WRs were all running go routes towards the end zone. Inexplicably Moore thought a wr would break off his route in that situation so he threw way under his target.

I can't figure out how to copy a gif from twitter but OHVarsity has a great gif of the play. I don't know how Moore could possibly make that decision in that situation. That is not something that should have to be explained to a college level QB.

From that yardage there's no way Moore makes it anywhere close to the end zone if he tried.

Which is why I argued last night that you take the knee and go to the locker room down only 9...

But Beer is right as well: be aggressive, what is there to lose? Then knowing what you've got at QB, you put it on the ground and try some sort of "hook and lateral" play.

I simply do not get how any coach, knowing that your QB is Hayden Moore calls running a passing play with 0 left on the play clock, in that position on the field. Totally baffling.

For the record we were down 13 points 16-3 and knowing USF gets the ball after halftime, I get it. The odds of a interception being returned for a TD in the last second is next to nothing. Freak play and Moore made a stupid decision.

(10-15-2017 09:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:39 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:35 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:24 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Throwing anything but a hail Mary to end the half last night was incomprehensible.

The WRs were all running go routes towards the end zone. Inexplicably Moore thought a wr would break off his route in that situation so he threw way under his target.

I can't figure out how to copy a gif from twitter but OHVarsity has a great gif of the play. I don't know how Moore could possibly make that decision in that situation. That is not something that should have to be explained to a college level QB.

From that yardage there's no way Moore makes it anywhere close to the end zone if he tried.

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/919369112475889665

The play call was not bad but Moore's read of the play was horrible. It looked like Geddis (I think) streaking down the sideline on the near side would've been the correct read. Instead, Moore threw it short (as he often does) into the middle of the field where USF had everyone dropped back into coverage. IMO the coaching staff has tried to give Moore the benefit of the doubt but has gotten burned too many times. That trust in the player to execute is part of trying to build confidence but Moore has blown too many key plays. It's Trail time.

Re-watching the play USF had it well covered with a man running with the near receiver and safeties over top. The corner broke off once the ball was in the air. Best bet would have been a hook & lateral or jump ball in the end zone. Unfortunately Moore is not the guy to deliver a 65 yard throw.

Injuries aside, there's probably a reason that Moore has for the most part been placed ahead of Trail on the depth chart over the past couple seasons. Two different coaching staffs have seen something in one over the other who work with them day in and out. That being said, if Moore is nicked up, I think Trail playing is fine, but I wouldn't expect much difference in the play of the offense. Trail was probably just as bad or worse than Moore at throwing into coverage and turning it over last season when he did play. Backup QB has always been most popular guy on the squad.

(10-15-2017 09:10 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 09:04 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/919369112475889665

The play call was not bad but Moore's read of the play was horrible. It looked like Geddis (I think) streaking down the sideline on the near side would've been the correct read. Instead, Moore threw it short (as he often does) into the middle of the field where USF had everyone dropped back into coverage. IMO the coaching staff has tried to give Moore the benefit of the doubt but has gotten burned too many times. That trust in the player to execute is part of trying to build confidence but Moore has blown too many key plays. It's Trail time.

Re-watching the play USF had it well covered with a man running with the near receiver and safeties over top. The corner broke off once the ball was in the air. Best bet would have been a hook & lateral or jump ball in the end zone. Unfortunately Moore is not the guy to deliver a 65 yard throw.

It's not worth splitting hairs but the chances of an interception and running it back for a TD is much less if the throw is made toward the sideline where at best two USF defenders are covering the receiver. Instead, the throw was made short in the middlle of the field where 4 USF defenders were just playing deep coverage.

Again, Moore could look off the defenders or pump fake to the other side and then make the throw but he just doesn't look comfortable in the pocket at times or he does not have the mental capacity to do this. It's really moot at this point because the result was a pick 6 and that pretty much sealed the deal of defeat.

(10-15-2017 09:19 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  Injuries aside, there's probably a reason that Moore has for the most part been placed ahead of Trail on the depth chart over the past couple seasons. Two different coaching staffs have seen something in one over the other who work with them day in and out. That being said, if Moore is nicked up, I think Trail playing is fine, but I wouldn't expect much difference in the play of the offense. Trail was probably just as bad or worse than Moore at throwing into coverage and turning it over last season when he did play. Backup QB has always been most popular guy on the squad.

You're probably right in terms of Trail is not going to come in and light it up. But we expected (and heard) Moore would "manage the game." He has not done well in that department. Trail is the more athletic of the two so maybe he can create a little bit of a spark there in terms of scrambling or keeping a play alive. At this point, anything is better than watching Moore do the same thing game in, game out.

It does seem like Moore is dinged up, but then again, playing behind that O line with an inconsistent running game can do that to a QB. Seems like this is a continuation from last year really.

Trail won't be any better. He is basically the same guy- meaning not very good. My guess is the coaching staff knows this and was trying to avoid the yo yo situation of playing a different QB every game hoping someone would get a hot hand (failed experiment see last year). But now what have the got to lose?

(10-15-2017 09:06 PM)BigDawg Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:51 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:39 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:35 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:24 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Throwing anything but a hail Mary to end the half last night was incomprehensible.

The WRs were all running go routes towards the end zone. Inexplicably Moore thought a wr would break off his route in that situation so he threw way under his target.

I can't figure out how to copy a gif from twitter but OHVarsity has a great gif of the play. I don't know how Moore could possibly make that decision in that situation. That is not something that should have to be explained to a college level QB.

From that yardage there's no way Moore makes it anywhere close to the end zone if he tried.

Which is why I argued last night that you take the knee and go to the locker room down only 9...

But Beer is right as well: be aggressive, what is there to lose? Then knowing what you've got at QB, you put it on the ground and try some sort of "hook and lateral" play.

I simply do not get how any coach, knowing that your QB is Hayden Moore calls running a passing play with 0 left on the play clock, in that position on the field. Totally baffling.

For the record we were down 13 points 16-3 and knowing USF gets the ball after halftime, I get it. The odds of a interception being returned for a TD in the last second is next to nothing. Freak play and Moore made a stupid decision.

Uh, no. You had all if our wideouts running flys. So you had offensive lineman as our last line of defense against an interception. You know, the guys who don't run very fast. It was a cluster from the get go.

(10-15-2017 08:32 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 08:06 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 07:55 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  I think you might be getting a little over the tips of your skis saying he has made all the right decisions. The weird mortar kick last week, and the going for it on 4th down with the initial possession of the 2nd half in the Miami game come to mind as poor decisions, although I do like the aggressive posture. All coaches have a few of these snafus. There's no quick fix to this. We just have to be patient. Unless Bohn leaves, Fickell will have plenty of rope considering that he's the biggest hire of his tenure here.

You are right about everything, but the large decisions is what I meant. I can agree that the play calling has been atrocious in many instances.

Can someone give me some instances of where the play calling was really bad? When I see open receivers getting the ball thrown over and/or behind them that seems like a good play call with terrible execution. Or if the ball hits the receivers hands and they drop it that seems like a good call With terrible execution.

We were running the ball effectively with Doaks and Warren. Several series where he throws the ball 3 straight times and punts. As mentioned the 4th down calls. We have had 2nd and short on several occasions and cannot come up with a first down play. If power football is not your forte use misdirection. I do not think it is a big deal. I account this stuff as growing pains, but the team l ooks novice at play calling.

(10-15-2017 09:19 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  Injuries aside, there's probably a reason that Moore has for the most part been placed ahead of Trail on the depth chart over the past couple seasons. Two different coaching staffs have seen something in one over the other who work with them day in and out. That being said, if Moore is nicked up, I think Trail playing is fine, but I wouldn't expect much difference in the play of the offense. Trail was probably just as bad or worse than Moore at throwing into coverage and turning it over last season when he did play. Backup QB has always been most popular guy on the squad.

Bolded, best comment of this thread.

An old newspaper cartoon I remember, "Devil's Dilemma" and the choices were eating corn on the cob after a root canal or horseback riding after a vasectomy. I don't see much difference between the two quarterbacks at this point. The previous staff either couldn't evaluate high school talent or were out-recruited for capable high major QB's, or (most likely) both. Perhaps they could both be serviceable in a program with a superior offensive line and more quality receivers.

CLF inherited a hot mess--much more so than many of us wanted to believe with the euphoria over his early recruiting successes. I'm actually looking forward to watching the remainder of this season. I want to see improvement in execution. I want to see the team competing for four quarters (as in "they didn't last year"). I want to see at least a couple of victories to build upon for next season.

(10-15-2017 09:19 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  Injuries aside, there's probably a reason that Moore has for the most part been placed ahead of Trail on the depth chart over the past couple seasons. Two different coaching staffs have seen something in one over the other who work with them day in and out. That being said, if Moore is nicked up, I think Trail playing is fine, but I wouldn't expect much difference in the play of the offense. Trail was probably just as bad or worse than Moore at throwing into coverage and turning it over last season when he did play. Backup QB has always been most popular guy on the squad.

Agreed.

I always get a kick out of the guys who get pissed at coaches for not playing the backup. They act as if the player is just tearing it up in practice and the coaches refuse to play him out of spite.

As much as I hated Tubs, from everything the guys who got paid to cover practice posted, Gunner deserved to be third string last year. He regressed big time. That's why he sucked last year when he actually got in the game, why he didn't get drafted, isn't playing in Canada, arena league or even semi-pro ball.

All this being said, if Trail get the nod from here I will support him and wish him the best. I just don't expect him to come and all of a sudden we become this offensive juggernaut.

If he can just avoid the mind-numbingly silly plays and can actually work through a progression, I'm all for it...or Sopko...or anyone. Not sure what people have seen out of Moore that they think is going to miraculously change. This is who he is.

(10-16-2017 08:11 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If he can just avoid the mind-numbingly silly plays and can actually work through a progression, I'm all for it...or Sopko...or anyone. Not sure what people have seen out of Moore that they think is going to miraculously change. This is who he is.

Oh I don't disagree. Moore has had more than enough snaps to show who he is (without looking it up, I would venture to say he has thrown more passes than some Bearcat greats like Tony Pike and Zach Collaros).

Not expecting the world from Trail. He flashed good athleticism at times but not sure he's a great downfield passer at this point. I liked that he looked for the TEs and if he can make good decisions then maybe we can hang around in the next 5 games.

Moore has been frustrating because there are times when he gets in a rhythm and makes a series of really nice throws but then falls off a cliff for the next two quarters. The wave of ups and downs with him has been exhausting. It remains to be seen if Trail will be better but we need a spark at this point in the season.

(10-16-2017 07:46 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 09:19 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  Injuries aside, there's probably a reason that Moore has for the most part been placed ahead of Trail on the depth chart over the past couple seasons. Two different coaching staffs have seen something in one over the other who work with them day in and out. That being said, if Moore is nicked up, I think Trail playing is fine, but I wouldn't expect much difference in the play of the offense. Trail was probably just as bad or worse than Moore at throwing into coverage and turning it over last season when he did play. Backup QB has always been most popular guy on the squad.

Agreed.

I always get a kick out of the guys who get pissed at coaches for not playing the backup. They act as if the player is just tearing it up in practice and the coaches refuse to play him out of spite.

As much as I hated Tubs, from everything the guys who got paid to cover practice posted, Gunner deserved to be third string last year. He regressed big time. That's why he sucked last year when he actually got in the game, why he didn't get drafted, isn't playing in Canada, arena league or even semi-pro ball.

All this being said, if Trail get the nod from here I will support him and wish him the best. I just don't expect him to come and all of a sudden we become this offensive juggernaut.

That could very well be on the staff. He had a lot of talent, and had previously looked like he was on the way towards being one of the top QBs in FBS. I know if I had a son who could "make all the throws," Kiel's regression under Tubs would be enough to cross his program off my list as a potential destination for my son.

Moore is not a D-1 QB he has had enough time and has not got any better
The O-line doesn't open enough holes in the run game
The Defense is on the field way to much
The secondary is slow and makes to many mistakes

Hopefully they get better next season when coach gets a few more players but the team has a long way to go a good QB would make a lot of difference

(10-16-2017 10:38 AM)dj3600 Wrote:  Moore is not a D-1 QB he has had enough time and has not got any better
The O-line doesn't open enough holes in the run game
The Defense is on the field way to much
The secondary is slow and makes to many mistakes

Hopefully they get better next season when coach gets a few more players but the team has a long way to go a good QB would make a lot of difference

All true. This year's team looks remarkably like last year's. Go figure.

(10-16-2017 10:38 AM)dj3600 Wrote:  Moore is not a D-1 QB he has had enough time and has not got any better
The O-line doesn't open enough holes in the run game
The Defense is on the field way to much
The secondary is slow and makes to many mistakes

Hopefully they get better next season when coach gets a few more players but the team has a long way to go a good QB would make a lot of difference

I'm normally against grad transfers because they never seem to work, but UC needs a Mauk-type transfer to come in and play QB for a year while we get Bryant up to speed. Trail, Moore, and Sopko are not the solution at QB.

(10-16-2017 11:49 AM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 10:38 AM)dj3600 Wrote:  Moore is not a D-1 QB he has had enough time and has not got any better
The O-line doesn't open enough holes in the run game
The Defense is on the field way to much
The secondary is slow and makes to many mistakes

Hopefully they get better next season when coach gets a few more players but the team has a long way to go a good QB would make a lot of difference

I'm normally against grad transfers because they never seem to work, but UC needs a Mauk-type transfer to come in and play QB for a year while we get Bryant up to speed. Trail, Moore, and Sopko are not the solution at QB.

Desmond Ridder?

PRIOR TO UC: Listed as a three-star recruit by 247Sports.com and Scout.com while Rivals.com gives him two stars ... Scout ranks him as the top QB in the state of Kentucky and one of the Top-50 QB prospects in the 2017 class ... threw for 2,270 yards and 19 TDs and ran for 1,583 yards and 30 TDs during two seasons as a starter ... averaged 6.5 yards per carry as a prepster ... helped lead his team to the Kentucky HS Athletic Association finals in 2016 ... an honorable mention Kentucky all-state football team selection by the Courier Journal ... toted the ball 131 times for 915 yards and 18 TDs on the ground as a senior ... averaged 76.0 yards per game and 6.9 yards per rush in 2016 ... threw for 951 yards and another 10 TDs, going 91-for-160 with only four interceptions ... he rushed for 203 yards and three touchdowns on 11 carries in a playoff win over Manual and also completed 8 of 19 passes for 86 yards and two scores ... was the Courier-Journal Athlete of the Week on Nov. 23, 2016 after rushing for 126 yards and a pair of TDs in a KHSAA Regional Finals win over Male ... completed 110 of 199 passes as a junior for 1,319 yards and nine touchdowns ... also was the Tigers’ leading rusher with 668 yards and 12 TDs on 114 attempts ... coached by William Wolford.

(10-16-2017 11:27 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 10:38 AM)dj3600 Wrote:  Moore is not a D-1 QB he has had enough time and has not got any better
The O-line doesn't open enough holes in the run game
The Defense is on the field way to much
The secondary is slow and makes to many mistakes

Hopefully they get better next season when coach gets a few more players but the team has a long way to go a good QB would make a lot of difference

All true. This year's team looks remarkably like last year's. Go figure.

With the exception that the last of Butch Jones' guys like Bond, Green, Leahy, Dowdy, Cole, Pace, Edwards, and the handfull of upperclassmen of Tubby's like Allonce and Wilson are no longer here.

We lost a lot off of a bad team with not much ready to step in and people are clutching their pearls.

I know Moore isn't great but I'm not sure its fair to say we know 100% what he brings to the table yet. The Oline SUCKS.
The Oline provides horrible pass protection and they can run block for crap, which means we have NO running game. Without a running game, you could have Joe Montana back there and he won't be very effective.

I'm all for giving Trail a shot, but before people dog pile on his perceived deficiencies as well, I think we need to keep in mind just how bad the Oline is.