http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/foo...ches-poll/

delete post-looks like the high/low may be their ranking this season prior to the current week.

https://www.seccountry.com/sec/college-f...eek-7-2017

Since we've got a thread, this is the current week.

Michigan being 4 spots higher than Michigan St.

Both have 1 loss.
Sparty beat Michigan AT Michigan.
Michigan's best win is against a 3-3 & Sparty's best win is against a 4-2.
Sparty's loss (top 15 Notre Dame) is better than Michigan's loss (top 20 MSU).

AP Poll got it right and corrected itself.

While I think the AP and Coaches Poll are no longer relevant due to the CFP poll. At least on the AP Polls, some writers post their logic. While you can agree or disagree with their logic, at least they provide something. Coaches just come out and no rhyme or reason given. Some Coaches have been known to let assistants cast their votes. Next week the real rankings come out.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/brownlow-s-.../16986756/

Georgia should be #2.

They've only had one close game, and it was against ND who is only out of the top 10 due to losing to UGA.

(10-15-2017 11:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  Who participates in these polls????

We know that the head coaches aren't really voting in the "coaches" poll, or they're just filling out the top 3-5 teams and then telling an intern or SID to fill in the rest.

Regardless of who is filling them out, the fact is that two different groups of more than 60 voters produce remarkably similar results. There is only one team in each poll's Top 25 that doesn't appear in the other (AP has Memphis at #25 and the Coaches have A&M at #24). No team is ranked more than four places different between the two polls, and there is only one of those.

I suspect you could select your own group of 60 voters and you would get pretty much the same result.

(10-15-2017 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Regardless of who is filling them out, the fact is that two different groups of more than 60 voters produce remarkably similar results. There is only one team in each poll's Top 25 that doesn't appear in the other (AP has Memphis at #25 and the Coaches have A&M at #24). No team is ranked more than four places different between the two polls, and there is only one of those.

I suspect you could select your own group of 60 voters and you would get pretty much the same result.

No, they just look at each other's polls and all watch ESPN. 20-25 years ago, you would get some different results between the 2 polls. The last 10 years they have started to converge. They were probably closer last week because there were few upsets. This week they have to think on their own.

(10-15-2017 09:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Regardless of who is filling them out, the fact is that two different groups of more than 60 voters produce remarkably similar results. There is only one team in each poll's Top 25 that doesn't appear in the other (AP has Memphis at #25 and the Coaches have A&M at #24). No team is ranked more than four places different between the two polls, and there is only one of those.

I suspect you could select your own group of 60 voters and you would get pretty much the same result.

No, they just look at each other's polls and all watch ESPN. 20-25 years ago, you would get some different results between the 2 polls. The last 10 years they have started to converge. They were probably closer last week because there were few upsets. This week they have to think on their own.

Surely you aren't suggesting that the voters from one poll are basically copying from the other when they come out nearly simultaneously. If any one of us cast a ballot immediately after the last games are played on Saturday night, I bet it would look an awful lot like the AP and Coaches' Polls.

I really can't remember a time when the two polls were radically different from one another, and I've been watching for a long time. The thing that is different today is that all the top teams are on television a lot, and the voters are watching them.

(10-15-2017 03:28 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  While I think the AP and Coaches Poll are no longer relevant due to the CFP poll. At least on the AP Polls, some writers post their logic. While you can agree or disagree with their logic, at least they provide something. Coaches just come out and no rhyme or reason given. Some Coaches have been known to let assistants cast their votes. Next week the real rankings come out.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/brownlow-s-.../16986756/

You're right, the AP/coaches poll is irrelevant when the CFP committee release their poll. SOS will determine a few changes especially regarding the G5 schools.

TCU should be higher. Two wins over Top 25 teams, more than any of the teams ranked ahead of them.

I would like to see a poll in which you only vote for your Top 15 teams. As it stands now, most voters would probably agree on who those are, though they might differ about the order.

After you get past #15, some voters will throw in a team or two for spurious reasons. I've seen coaches vote for their next opponent, just so they will show up somewhere, if only in the "others receiving votes" category.

I believe if you could only vote for 15, your Top 25 result would be more representative of who the strongest teams really are. Sometimes, you might not even get 25 teams receiving votes. That would be fine by me, but coaches and ADs probably like it better when there are 40 or more teams getting votes.

Honestly, the "polls" aren't worth a hill of beans. It just gives us something to discuss and banter about.

There's only one poll that matters.

https://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/a...e-rankings

(10-15-2017 10:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 09:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Regardless of who is filling them out, the fact is that two different groups of more than 60 voters produce remarkably similar results. There is only one team in each poll's Top 25 that doesn't appear in the other (AP has Memphis at #25 and the Coaches have A&M at #24). No team is ranked more than four places different between the two polls, and there is only one of those.

I suspect you could select your own group of 60 voters and you would get pretty much the same result.

No, they just look at each other's polls and all watch ESPN. 20-25 years ago, you would get some different results between the 2 polls. The last 10 years they have started to converge. They were probably closer last week because there were few upsets. This week they have to think on their own.

Surely you aren't suggesting that the voters from one poll are basically copying from the other when they come out nearly simultaneously. If any one of us cast a ballot immediately after the last games are played on Saturday night, I bet it would look an awful lot like the AP and Coaches' Polls.

I really can't remember a time when the two polls were radically different from one another, and I've been watching for a long time. The thing that is different today is that all the top teams are on television a lot, and the voters are watching them.

They both copy ESPN. So the end result (i.e., that both polls are nearly identical) is the same as copying each other.

(10-16-2017 09:26 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 10:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 09:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 07:45 PM)ken d Wrote:  Regardless of who is filling them out, the fact is that two different groups of more than 60 voters produce remarkably similar results. There is only one team in each poll's Top 25 that doesn't appear in the other (AP has Memphis at #25 and the Coaches have A&M at #24). No team is ranked more than four places different between the two polls, and there is only one of those.

I suspect you could select your own group of 60 voters and you would get pretty much the same result.

No, they just look at each other's polls and all watch ESPN. 20-25 years ago, you would get some different results between the 2 polls. The last 10 years they have started to converge. They were probably closer last week because there were few upsets. This week they have to think on their own.

Surely you aren't suggesting that the voters from one poll are basically copying from the other when they come out nearly simultaneously. If any one of us cast a ballot immediately after the last games are played on Saturday night, I bet it would look an awful lot like the AP and Coaches' Polls.

I really can't remember a time when the two polls were radically different from one another, and I've been watching for a long time. The thing that is different today is that all the top teams are on television a lot, and the voters are watching them.

They both copy ESPN. So the end result (i.e., that both polls are nearly identical) is the same as copying each other.

When do the ESPN rankings come out? Do you suppose that all the voters in the AP and Coaches' Polls wait for them to come out before they submit their own ballot?

And if they are copying ESPN, why are their results so different (not from each other, but from ESPN)? ESPN ranks Florida State at #14. Where are they ranked in the AP? ESPN ranks USF at #41. The Coaches have them at #13.

If there is any copying going on, they aren't doing a very good job of it.

The difference is that ESPN is at least trying to rank teams by their relative strength. That has never been true of the AP or Coaches Poll. They rank teams by an unwritten formula that considers # of losses first and foremost, and then adjusts them for perceived strength of conference. They are more like "standings" than "rankings", with a handicap system applied.

And, truth be told, I believe the CFP rankings are more like the AP rankings in that respect than they are to power ranking systems like ESPN or Sagarin. I believe they take popular opinion into account far more than they would admit, even to themselves.

I thought it would be interesting to see four rankings side by side. They are listed, initially, in the order of the ESPN Top 25. At the end, I included teams ranked in either the AP or Coaches Top 25, but not in the ESPN list. ESPN and Sagarin rank all teams, the AP and Coaches only rank teams which received at least one vote.

Team.............ESPN....Sagarin...AP....USA (Coaches)

Alabama............1..........1.........1......1
Ohio State.........2..........2.........6......6
Penn State.........3..........3.........2......2
Clemson............4..........4.........7......8
Washington........5..........7........12....12
Oklahoma..........6..........6.........9......9
Georgia.............7..........5.........3......3
Notre Dame.......8.........10.......13....16
Wisconsin..........9..........8.........5......5
Auburn.............10........11.......21.....21
Oklahoma St.....11.........9........10.....11
Stanford...........12........13.......22.....22
TCU.................13.........12.......4.......4
Florida St..........14........14......39.....NR
Miami...............15........15.......8.......7
USC.................16........16.......11....10
NC State...........17........20.......17....17
UCF..................18........19.......20....20
Virginia Tech.....19.........18......14.....14
Texas...............20.........23......NR....NR
Michigan..........21..........17......19....15
Mississippi St....22.........22......32.....37
LSU.................23.........25......24.....25
Georgia Tech....24.........21.......38....37
Texas Tech.......25.........30.......36....NR

USF.................41.........31.......16....13
Washington St..27.........26.......15....18
Michigan St......42.........24.......18....19
West Virginia....36.........38.......23....23
Memphis.........48..........50.......25....27
Texas A&M......32..........27.......27....24

As far as I can tell, all four rankings were updated at about the same time. The AP and USA were published on Sunday afternoon. I didn't look at ESPN (I didn't know where to look) but Sagarin had not updated at the time the human polls became available.

Clearly, ESPN and Sagarin are very similar to each other, as are AP and USA Today. But there are great anomalies between the human polls and the computer rankings. And, after 7 weeks, the computer rankings have no vestige from prior season results in their calculations.