(10-14-2017 05:09 AM)NoDak Wrote:  IMHO, the new conference rules still leave open the possibility that seven schools from an existing conference that have been together eight years can form a new one and get an autobid immediately.

Sure you can have that opinion that the rules leave open that possibility, the problem with that interpretation is that the words don't say that, and the NCAA is sometimes a stickler for what the words say, especially when that falls in line with the desires of some big money interest.

If you can find an NCAA ruling that says that, it will settle it, of course, ...

... but, failing that, it seems more plausible that the C7 objected that the old rules made them wait until the summer of 2013, with the by-laws of the (old) Big East built around that fact, so that they should have a waiver on being subjected to the new rules, and the argument was accepted ...

... given that the real point of the rule was to avoid handing out Div1 BBall autobids willy-nilly to schools who would not otherwise get picked for the Big Dance, and the C7 plus whomever they picked up regarded as a multi-bid conference.

(10-14-2017 02:40 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Seems I remember John Bragg digging into this and discovering that the continuity rule
allowing teams that had played together for a certain number of years an autobid no longer exists. Any new conference would have to deal with a significant waiting period prior to being awarded an NCAA basketball autobid.

Yeah. For anyone who wants to wade through it, IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid

OP has most of the story. OVer the course of the thread, I came around to the idea that no matter what the rules said, if a new conference survived the 8 year continuity period they'd get elected to membership.

I agree. Conferences are awarded continuity instead of individual schools per my interpretation. It would be interesting if a group of 7 schools who had been playing together for 8 years tried to form a new conference

(10-13-2017 07:34 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  There are some stipulations, though. I know that some certain number of schools have to have been together for a minimum number of years before the NCAA will certify them to break off and form a new league. Otherwise, the new league wouldn't become an official, NCAA-recognized conference with automatic bids. Without the minimum number of teams having already been together, they'd instead become like that Great West Conference from several years back: a small conference with no automatic bids to any NCAA tournaments.

This is correct. A new conference would spend 8 years in no-autobid purgatory, based on the rules passed in 2011. The old continuity rules (6 schools together for 5 years) were replaced with "continuity" being a thing conferences have, not a thing that schools have with each other.

Quote:Back in 2003, the football Big East schools considered breaking off from the non football schools, but couldn't.

Right. Back then, the rule was 6 schools for 5 years. The Big East Football Conference schools were going to break away from the basketball schools, the BEFC at that split second being Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Rutgers, BC and about-to-be-FBS UConn. Plan was to bring in Louisville, Cincinatti, UCF and try to hang on to Notre Dame. BC bolting for the ACC ruined that plan, and Notre DAme I guess didn't want to see a split (Notre Dame would have given either group 6-schools-for-5-years), so the 16-team hybrid happened, with the plan of separating once both sides had their continuity squared away. But by that time, everyone was having too much fun playing Scrooge McDuck with swimming pools full of NCAA tourament money.

Quote:Additional meetings of the football conference members occurred between July and October 2003. In the course of those meetings, it was realized that the break-up scenario would not be feasible because the new football conference would lose its automatic NCAA basketball tournament berth and possibly its BCS bid, as well as the Big East name. Further, the football schools had not been together long enough to satisfy certain NCAA rules.

IT would have been feasible, and it would have happened, if BC hadn't jumped to the ACC. Without BC, the football schools didn't have 6-schools-for-5-years.

Quote:Does anyone know the number of schools that have to be together and for how many years in order for the NCAA to recognize a new conference with automatic bids? That answer may shed some light on when and who may some day break away from the Sun Belt and/or C-USA to form some new conference.

Before 2011-12, it was 6 schools for 5 years (with a 7th school added). Now, it doesn't matter. If, hypothetically, the 7 oldest ACC schools wanted to break away, it's no different rules-wise than UNC forming a conference with North Dakota, New Orleans, Nebraska-Omaha, Northern Illinois, North Texas and NJIT. (That's what the rules say. In reality, there would be a huge legal and financial brawl, and the rules would change to accomodate the new balance of power.)

(10-13-2017 11:12 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  With the Catholic 7, they had been together for exactly 8 seasons prior to their withdrawal in the summer of 2013. 7 since 2005; 5 since 1980; and 4 since 1979.

By the rules in force at the time, that didn't matter. However, if it had gone to court, it would have been a major point in the C7's favor that the old Big East Prenup had been written relying on the old continuity rules. But since the new Big East wasn't going to take an NCAA tournament bid from the "haves" in favor of the "have-nots", it was waved through.

Quote:When the 8 original MWC schools (New Mexico, AFA, CSU, Wyoming, Utah, BYU, SDSU, & UNLV) withdrew from the WAC in 1999, all but UNLV had been together in the WAC since at least 1980.

Again, those were the old rules. Those rules were tossed overboard to save the WAC from dissolution in 2011-12.

Ironically, 2011-100 wound up saving the American as well as the WAC - when only Cincinnati, Connecticut, and South Florida remained (Temple had yet to join as a full member), there would have been no way for the American to satisfy the old continuity rules, other than inviting six schools from C-USA to join for the 2013 season - this wouldn't have been a huge change, as it would have forced two of Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU to join sooner (UCF, SMU, Houston, and Memphis already committed to join for the 2013 season), but it would have been a logistical nightmare for it to have happened on short notice. East Carolina and Tulane announced their moves to the then-Big East on November 27, 2012.

The timing of the Big East/American moves also would have kept the 6/5 rule from being an issue with Conference USA.

If CFP money was not an issue, could see a new conference, if it could get a MAC like 10M media deal. Without NCAA credits for 8 years and then another 5 to build up plus no real CFP money no way. Yes the G5 did vote to change the 1 Million up to 12 teams to 1M up to 10 teams with the extra money going for the G5 conference ranking pot. There is no way the G5 will vote to cut in a new conference.

(10-14-2017 04:11 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Actually, I can see a couple of new conferences formed. Here's how I see things: Southern Miss gets together with UAB, Marshall, and Louisiana Tech. They form a new conference, and then decide on membership. Rice will be invited, as will North Texas, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, Old Dominion, and Arkansas State. UTEP will leave for the MWC after this exodus and might take UTSA with them. What remains of the old C-USA will have to join the Sun Belt. If the MWC does not invite UTSA, they'll probably wind up in the Sun Belt too.

Would Rice still have claim to the SWC? They could restart that conference since it would not be new. I seen history that conferences folded and then reformed with same members and with new members. PAC 12 reformed with the same members minus Idaho and Montana.

(10-14-2017 10:52 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  If CFP money was not an issue, could see a new conference, if it could get a MAC like 10M media deal. Without NCAA credits for 8 years and then another 5 to build up plus no real CFP money no way. Yes the G5 did vote to change the 1 Million up to 12 teams to 1M up to 10 teams with the extra money going for the G5 conference ranking pot. There is no way the G5 will vote to cut in a new conference.

If a new conference for FBS to form? It has to do between Wyoming and Northern Iowa. Wyoming needs the Montana schools up at FBS for financial reasons. They could schedule them 2 times a year and not one since they would be FBS. Marshall may not mind having Youngstown State up to D1. Northern Iowa could be counted as an FBS team for the Big 10. Same with Missouri State. That conference could be the one that gets raided for a change and not the Sun Belt for a change.

The SWC is dead. Its last members joined the Big 12 and WAC save Houston who joined C-USA. Texas Tech actually has possession of the archives, not Rice.