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OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
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moonshine Offline
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Post: #61
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-17-2017 10:11 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The fact regular students could take the classes is what saved them.

I get the "academic" argument since regular students took the class. However, regular students did not have someone "lobbying" on their behalf for a particular grade. That's where the impermissible benefit would apply. Not to mention, the percentage breakdown of regular students and athletes clearly shows that the student-athletes took these particular classes at a much higher clip than non-athletes. Had athletes made up less than 5-10% of enrollment of these classes, instead of almost half, than this would not be as obvious but alas, lawyers, money and loopholes win the day.

Something not really being discussed is the potential fraud that took place with taxpayers' dollars if any of the students paid for the classes via financial aid or if the "professor"and assistant received compensation from state funds. And politicians/voters are lobbying for "free" college education. Who wants their tax dollars to pay for such a great educational program such as AFAM at UNC?
10-17-2017 10:36 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #62
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-17-2017 10:11 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 09:27 AM)moonshine Wrote:  I haven't read all the NCAA by-laws and what penalties would come with a particular charge but it seems to me the NCAA should have turned to the section about "impermissible benefits". It's obvious that "student"-athletes took these classes at a much high clip than the regular student body. Roughly 3,100 students took the fake classes with athletes making up over 46% of enrollment (over 1,400) while athletes make up less than 2-3% of the entire student body.

Athletes had "counselors" recommending grades to the secretary "grading" the papers to help keep the athletes eligible. Now unless the other 54% of students enrolled in those classes had someone lobbying for certain grades on their behalf, that is an impermissible benefit as far as I can tell.

I spoke with someone who was a Poli-sci and AFAM major. He never knew these classes existed. It's rumored that these particular classes were not in the registry and were really only available to athletes and those students whom the athletes told about the classes. I understand every school has "underwater basket weaving" classes but I'd imagine the students actually have to show up and hold their breath underwater for 10 seconds.

The fact regular students could take the classes is what saved them.
Would be interesting to see if any of these regular students had connections or relationships with the athletes in the classes.

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10-17-2017 12:51 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #63
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
CoachWilRob it's not a difference of opinion, it's s difference between 5 years & 40 years of experience.

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(This post was last modified: 10-17-2017 02:48 PM by AppManDG.)
10-17-2017 12:53 PM
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CoachWillRob Offline
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Post: #64
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-17-2017 12:53 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  CoachWilRob it's not a difference of opinion, it's s difference between 5 years & 40 years of experience.

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You're right, you know it all, I know nothing. You've done it all, I havn't. You are completely non-biased too, so my bad. 01-ncaabbs
10-17-2017 06:08 PM
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Bobcat87 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-17-2017 06:08 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 12:53 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  CoachWilRob it's not a difference of opinion, it's s difference between 5 years & 40 years of experience.

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You're right, you know it all, I know nothing. You've done it all, I havn't. You are completely non-biased too, so my bad. 01-ncaabbs

03-lmfao03-lmfao Now yer learnin' Boy-O. . . .
10-17-2017 06:28 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #66
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-17-2017 06:08 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 12:53 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  CoachWilRob it's not a difference of opinion, it's s difference between 5 years & 40 years of experience.

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You're right, you know it all, I know nothing. You've done it all, I havn't. You are completely non-biased too, so my bad. 01-ncaabbs

I never said you don't know anything or that I "know it all" or have "done it all". Just the opposite is true. Some of you young bucks think you know everything and us old guys don't know squat. That came across loud & clear in your SA condesending remarks. You showed your ignorance in saying iAE wasn't very smart when, as it was corectly pointed out, he made the Dean's List numerous times and graduated in 3 1/2 years. You are also completely wrong about the academic advisors role at App. So excuse me for not taking you very seriously.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2017 08:47 PM by AppManDG.)
10-17-2017 08:40 PM
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CoachWillRob Offline
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Post: #67
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-17-2017 08:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 06:08 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 12:53 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  CoachWilRob it's not a difference of opinion, it's s difference between 5 years & 40 years of experience.

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You're right, you know it all, I know nothing. You've done it all, I havn't. You are completely non-biased too, so my bad. 01-ncaabbs

I never said you don't know anything or that I "know it all" or have "done it all". Just the opposite is true. Some of you young bucks think you know everything and us old guys don't know squat. That came across loud & clear in your SA condesending remarks. You showed your ignorance in saying iAE wasn't very smart when, as it was corectly pointed out, he made the Dean's List numerous times and graduated in 3 1/2 years. You are also completely wrong about the academic advisors role at App. So excuse me for not taking you very seriously.

haha, ok man. My remarks were condescending and I'm ignorant. Got it. You were at App 30 some years ago so naturally you'd have a better idea of academic advisors at App (or any college) and know exactly how smart AE is or how hard he worked in the classroom or with summer classes and all ... my apologies for not taking you seriously enough.
10-17-2017 09:26 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
Are you mad AE had a higher GPA? seriously what did quite possibly the greatest player in App history, that graduated early and by all accounts is extremely humble do to you?
10-17-2017 09:37 PM
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CoachWillRob Offline
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Post: #69
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-17-2017 09:37 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Are you mad AE had a higher GPA? seriously what did quite possibly the greatest player in App history, that graduated early and by all accounts is extremely humble do to you?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with AE, the guy is one of the hardest workers I've seen and a great example of a student athlete. Love him to death. My argument that I'm trying to make is that even with AE working very hard, he would have not been as successful in the classroom without the advantage of priority registration, athletic advisors, required tutoring sessions, summer classes(which are much easier for everyone btw), and much support. His academic success didn't come just because he was "super smart". He had lots of support to go along with his hard work. Nothing wrong with the support, but the same support that all athletes get at App and many other schools.
10-18-2017 08:28 AM
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Saint3333 Offline
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RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
Support to succeed and using those tools to take actually classes and tests is much different than what happened down on the hill.
10-18-2017 09:45 AM
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CoachWillRob Offline
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Post: #71
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-18-2017 09:45 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Support to succeed and using those tools to take actually classes and tests is much different than what happened down on the hill.

I completely agree. My argument is the punishment should go to the academics, and not the athletics.
10-18-2017 10:26 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #72
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-17-2017 09:26 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 08:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 06:08 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 12:53 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  CoachWilRob it's not a difference of opinion, it's s difference between 5 years & 40 years of experience.

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You're right, you know it all, I know nothing. You've done it all, I havn't. You are completely non-biased too, so my bad. 01-ncaabbs

I never said you don't know anything or that I "know it all" or have "done it all". Just the opposite is true. Some of you young bucks think you know everything and us old guys don't know squat. That came across loud & clear in your SA condesending remarks. You showed your ignorance in saying iAE wasn't very smart when, as it was corectly pointed out, he made the Dean's List numerous times and graduated in 3 1/2 years. You are also completely wrong about the academic advisors role at App. So excuse me for not taking you very seriously.

haha, ok man. My remarks were condescending and I'm ignorant. Got it. You were at App 30 some years ago so naturally you'd have a better idea of academic advisors at App (or any college) and know exactly how smart AE is or how hard he worked in the classroom or with summer classes and all ... my apologies for not taking you seriously enough.

And I'm just some guy that went to App 30 years ago and rolls into town a few times each year for a game. ?

Given your depth of knowledge on the inner workings of collegiate athletic departments, I'm still baffled how you can actually believe the coaches at unc-ch had no knowledge how these classes operated? You say the players and coaches should not be punished. Yet these players know full well what they're getting involved with. How come they shouldn't be held accountable for their decisions.

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(This post was last modified: 10-18-2017 11:56 AM by AppManDG.)
10-18-2017 11:12 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #73
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-18-2017 10:26 AM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(10-18-2017 09:45 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Support to succeed and using those tools to take actually classes and tests is much different than what happened down on the hill.

I completely agree. My argument is the punishment should go to the academics, and not the athletics.

Exactly. Shame the accrediting bodies don't have more tools to deal with it.
10-18-2017 03:54 PM
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CoachWillRob Offline
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Post: #74
RE: OT: NCAA “could not conclude” academic violations in UNC case
(10-18-2017 11:12 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 09:26 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 08:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 06:08 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(10-17-2017 12:53 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  CoachWilRob it's not a difference of opinion, it's s difference between 5 years & 40 years of experience.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

You're right, you know it all, I know nothing. You've done it all, I havn't. You are completely non-biased too, so my bad. 01-ncaabbs

I never said you don't know anything or that I "know it all" or have "done it all". Just the opposite is true. Some of you young bucks think you know everything and us old guys don't know squat. That came across loud & clear in your SA condesending remarks. You showed your ignorance in saying iAE wasn't very smart when, as it was corectly pointed out, he made the Dean's List numerous times and graduated in 3 1/2 years. You are also completely wrong about the academic advisors role at App. So excuse me for not taking you very seriously.

haha, ok man. My remarks were condescending and I'm ignorant. Got it. You were at App 30 some years ago so naturally you'd have a better idea of academic advisors at App (or any college) and know exactly how smart AE is or how hard he worked in the classroom or with summer classes and all ... my apologies for not taking you seriously enough.

And I'm just some guy that went to App 30 years ago and rolls into town a few times each year for a game. ?

Given your depth of knowledge on the inner workings of collegiate athletic departments, I'm still baffled how you can actually believe the coaches at unc-ch had no knowledge how these classes operated? You say the players and coaches should not be punished. Yet these players know full well what they're getting involved with. How come they shouldn't be held accountable for their decisions.

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Of the million responsibilities a college coach has with watching film, scheduling practice, game planning, recruiting, not to mention family responsibilities, I find it totally possible that a college coach does not know of the rigor in any of the departments/classrooms. But I feel like I've explained this already ...
And you really expect, an 18,19,20 year old, who's purpose of going to college is to play sports at the next level, is really going to feel bad about taking a cake class that will get them a high grade??? Like they would report that? Really??? Most D-I football or b-ball athletes main goal for college is their athletic success and taking it to the next level. I'm sure they would like the degree but most don't care how "rigorous" it is to get it.
10-18-2017 07:50 PM
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