(10-12-2017 12:31 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I desperately want this to happen. I'm self-employed. My health insurance premium is second only to my mortgage.

But per the analysis from Reason, this is like celebrating that you've won at the beginning of a marathon. http://reason.com/blog/2017/10/12/trumps...es-it-easi

One thing is for certain, Reason is always correct.

wasn't this mentioned yesterday???

ol' boy is simply kicking their nuts into their throat.....

(10-12-2017 01:28 PM)ARandomHerdFan Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 01:09 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  So what are you really mad about, Random? The fact that its an executive order or the fact that this is potentially a good development for people who have been screwed over by this failing piece of legislation?

I'm not mad at all over the executive order, and it'll be great if it helps people.

The annoyance is the absolute hypocrisy of both sides of the aisle when it comes to these things.

For Republicans/conservatives, when Obama signed executive orders, he was a "king" or a "dictator". Everything he signed was an abuse of power. Now that Trump is in office, executive orders are awesome.

For Democrats/liberals, just flip those two... they were awesome during Obama's tenure and are now the worst thing in the world. You can also throw in the constant "BUT BUSH SIGNED MORE" comments that tried to justify everything.

Obama's EO's sucked. That's the difference.

(10-12-2017 02:04 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  One thing is for certain, Reason is always correct.

Smells like sarcasm. If it is, I await your rebuttal to these points, which I agree with:

Quote:Obamacare's government-created marketplaces were expensive and unstable before Trump took office, thanks in large part to the effect of its rules governing how insurers must cover preexisting conditions. But Trump's order won't ease that instability, and may well exacerbate it.

This would be true, however, of practically any effort to create more insurance options outside of its regulatory scheme. The law effectively requires total buy in, from market participants and from political overseers, in order to function. The result is situation in which the only way to avoid undermining the law is to prop it up. Obamacare is built to allow no alternative and no escape.

For various reasons, Trump's order may not work as well as intended. The order is short on details and will take time to work through the system and is unlikely to have a substantial immediate effect. It instructs the Department of Labor and Health and Human Services to consider finding ways to expand association health plans, and offers some broad suggests about how this might be accomplished but little in the way of specifics. As a result, the effort to spur the expansion of association health plans may produce limited results, with few new options coming online.

In addition, the executive order may create short-term confusion, since few if any new plans are likely to be available this year. The decision to expand these options by executive order leaves any newly created plans susceptible to undoing by a future administration that is more hostile to the idea. The idea is also virtually certain to spark legal challenge; exempting select plans from Obamacare's rules while leaving the overall regulatory infrastructure in place may not hold up in court.

There is also the possibility that Trump's plan will work too well, luring enough relatively healthy people out of Obamacare's insurance markets and producing a political backlash as premiums continue to rise and choices continue to decline. This is a plan that leaves many questions unanswered, and comes with substantial risks.

And to me, this would cause total and complete collapse of the individual market in < 12 months if association plans started coming fast and furious on the open marketplace. Great for me. But for the truly hideously unhealthy people ... people who already hit their $1m lifetime cap ... people with nasty systemic pre-existing conditions ... they're not going to like not being able to steal from me any more to pay for all the healthcare they want. And that needs to be headed off at the pass. And the best way to do that is to make it legal for *any citizen* to buy their way into medicare. Let medicare become the government catastrophic pool. And let those of us who opt for personal responsibility over theft of our fellow man be turned loose to freely associate and create prosperity.

(10-12-2017 01:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 12:37 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 12:19 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Que the liberal anti trump talking points being emailed out from the mothership.

Ooo-ooo, let me try!

F* these a-holes
This strips basic protections from everyone
Push grandma off the cliff
Trump is trying to murder people
It's stupid
Jesus Christ himself could come down all trumpets and angels and denounce it and they'd still run ahead with it
If it were ever time to hit the streets, this would be the time.
They'll kill brown people.
If I weren't crying, I'd be laughing, because it's really laughable.
It's amazing how the GOP relentlessly serves evil.
Koch Brothers
Veterans will die

Admit it....you just copied and pasted Democratic Underground didn't you?

Same comments, different day.

https://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Programs-and-I...ty-Map.pdf

What you are seeing is the slow devolution into regional/territorial monopolies. Much like Big Cable is your only option for internet in most places, Obamacare has officially established Big Health Insurance as your only option in most places. While some big cities will have the market share to have competition, most will not as a monopoly will be necessary to make this boondoggle financially worthwhile to the insurers.

First thing I thought of is this was a smart play to bring the D’s to the table for negotiations. That was my first thoughts. They had no reason to play ball before now they do. We shall see.

Dems are opposed to any type of repeal of Obamacare. Conservatives are opposed to anything that does not repeal obamacare. Until one group judges there can be no legislative action

Or let the selfish like GTS who could give two ***** about his countrymen who have fallen on hard times safe harbor until he falls on hard times. Let the govt subsidize the Obamacare markets. Have a VAT pay for it. This might work.

(10-12-2017 03:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Or let the selfish like GTS who could give two ***** about his countrymen who have fallen on hard times safe harbor until he falls on hard times. Let the govt subsidize the Obamacare markets. Have a VAT pay for it. This might work.

That sounds like a terrible way to control costs

(10-12-2017 03:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 03:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Or let the selfish like GTS who could give two ***** about his countrymen who have fallen on hard times safe harbor until he falls on hard times. Let the govt subsidize the Obamacare markets. Have a VAT pay for it. This might work.

That sounds like a terrible way to control costs

He works in the public sector. What do you expect?

(10-12-2017 03:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Or let the selfish like GTS who could give two ***** about his countrymen who have fallen on hard times safe harbor until he falls on hard times. Let the govt subsidize the Obamacare markets. Have a VAT pay for it. This might work.

How socialist of you comrade!

(10-12-2017 03:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Or let the selfish like GTS who could give two ***** about his countrymen who have fallen on hard times safe harbor until he falls on hard times. Let the govt subsidize the Obamacare markets. Have a VAT pay for it. This might work.

What is your fair share of what somebody else has worked for? I'm a working class stiff and the collar here is blue, so spare me the monopoly guy straw men. I'll hang up and listen.

(10-12-2017 12:19 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I hate the use of "legislative" executive orders....but this is so much common sense I can't believe this idiot congress screwed around so long that it required this.

Now can cross state lines for healthcare plans. Will be able to aggregate and access trade union and association plans. What Sen. Rand Paul was pushing all along.

Que the liberal anti trump talking points being emailed out from the mothership.

Now all that will be offered are Trump University Health Care plans that don't cover anything.

I suppose we can just ban weapons next time a loon shoots a bunch of people because these new plans won't cover mental illness

Trumpcare = Junk Care.

No healthcare plan worth having will be offered across a state line. And if it doesn't cover your pills, its not a healthcare plan.

(10-12-2017 05:17 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 03:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Or let the selfish like GTS who could give two ***** about his countrymen who have fallen on hard times safe harbor until he falls on hard times. Let the govt subsidize the Obamacare markets. Have a VAT pay for it. This might work.

What is your fair share of what somebody else has worked for? I'm a working class stiff and the collar here is blue, so spare me the monopoly guy straw men. I'll hang up and listen.

He want's all of it. Equal outcome for unequal effort and capabilities is the goal.

(10-12-2017 05:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 12:19 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I hate the use of "legislative" executive orders....but this is so much common sense I can't believe this idiot congress screwed around so long that it required this.

Now can cross state lines for healthcare plans. Will be able to aggregate and access trade union and association plans. What Sen. Rand Paul was pushing all along.

Que the liberal anti trump talking points being emailed out from the mothership.

Now all that will be offered are Trump University Health Care plans that don't cover anything.

I suppose we can just ban weapons next time a loon shoots a bunch of people because these new plans won't cover mental illness

Trumpcare = Junk Care.

No healthcare plan worth having will be offered across a state line. And if it doesn't cover your pills, its not a healthcare plan.

You don't have anything to worry about. They will not charge you for treatment in the FEMA gay camps.

Health care shouldn’t be determined by your Socio Economic Status. A kid with cancer is a kid with cancer Neanderthals. Adults you can talk to me about and I’ll listen. Just can’t stand the fact that the majority don’t care if a family can’t afford insurance.

(10-12-2017 05:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Health care shouldn’t be determined by your Socio Economic Status. A kid with cancer is a kid with cancer Neanderthals. Adults you can talk to me about and I’ll listen. Just can’t stand the fact that the majority don’t care if a family can’t afford insurance.

A kid with cancer is sad.


But it's still not my financial responsibility unless it's my kid or I feel compelled to make a donation to the charity of my choice. The federal government should not be committing armed robbery by force of the money I earned to pay for someone else's healthcare regardless of their age.

(10-12-2017 05:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Health care shouldn’t be determined by your Socio Economic Status. A kid with cancer is a kid with cancer Neanderthals. Adults you can talk to me about and I’ll listen. Just can’t stand the fact that the majority don’t care if a family can’t afford insurance.

Who is refusing treatment?

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(10-12-2017 05:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Health care shouldn’t be determined by your Socio Economic Status. A kid with cancer is a kid with cancer Neanderthals. Adults you can talk to me about and I’ll listen. Just can’t stand the fact that the majority don’t care if a family can’t afford insurance.

There isn't enough money to pay for the healthcare of everybody in this country, let alone the world. Resources are scarce. How do you intend to allocate them? We can't pay for all the healthcare that everybody wants to consume. Because given the option they will degenerate and pass off the costs for their own health care -- often purely a problem because of their own decisions like obesity, alcohol consumption, and tobacco consumption -- to all of the rest of us.

Your argument falls even further apart when expanded beyond the artificial borders of the United States. I notice you didn't say "a kid with cancer IN THE UNITED STATES is a kid with cancer IN THE UNITED STATES." So are you on board with a global ObamaCare program because I assure you Mach you're in the 1% just by being a US citizen. Ready to start writing checks for 95% of your net worth to Africa? If not ... take a long cold stare into your hypocrisy and re-evaluate.