Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
Author Message
Fighting Muskie Online
1st String
*

Posts: 1,071
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 37
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #1
Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.
10-08-2017 04:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

rednblackattack Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,002
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 66
I Root For: UofL
Location:
Post: #2
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
The day they are added to the Big 12 is the day Texas and OU will bolt
10-08-2017 04:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
otown Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,804
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 45
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 04:37 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  The day they are added to the Big 12 is the day Texas and OU will bolt

Strong words coming from a school that probably couldn't even get admitted to the Sun Belt if they had no current conference shelter.
10-08-2017 04:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUmustangs Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,064
Joined: Jul 2004
Reputation: 65
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #4
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

No.
10-08-2017 04:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Jjoey52 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,009
Joined: Feb 2017
Reputation: 46
I Root For: ISU
Location:
Post: #5
Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
It might when they play real teams.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
10-08-2017 05:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
rtaylor Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,115
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 134
I Root For: Bearcats
Location:
Post: #6
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 04:47 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:37 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  The day they are added to the Big 12 is the day Texas and OU will bolt

Strong words coming from a school that probably couldn't even get admitted to the Sun Belt if they had no current conference shelter.

03-lmfao
10-08-2017 05:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

bullet Online
Legend
*

Posts: 25,447
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 567
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #7
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

UCF made it to a BCS bowl. Then promptly went winless.

So, no.
10-08-2017 05:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 18,981
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Near Seawall Town
Post: #8
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
Just no...neither is consistent.

Heck, the season isn't even over, they could both go 6-6.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017 11:43 PM by _C2_.)
10-08-2017 05:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 739
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 41
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #9
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 05:15 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  It might when they play real teams.

While a true argument, it’s not a fair argument. It presents the conference affiliation and schedule as a choice. A school can’t play “real teams” or be in a “real conference” without getting invited. A school can only play the schools in front of them. UCF, USF, and every other non-power school would join a power company conference or be deemed a power school in a heartbeat.
10-08-2017 05:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 15,279
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 791
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #10
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

I wish I could say yes because in the long run I think it would be prudent for the SEC to add South Florida and the ACC to add Central Florida. I do think eventually they both will be P5 schools and I believe the academic standing of both will only continue to improve.

But sadly the sports business is one of what can you do for me now, and not an industry that invests in growth products. IMO, the SEC would be really remiss to forgo an opportunity to add a physical presence on the Gulf side of Central Florida. It would balance out the dynamics of Miami and Florida State. I'd suggest Central Florida but I think the Gulf side presence is even more important to the SEC. One day those schools will be as valuable to the ACC and SEC as California schools are to the PAC and if the ACC and SEC wait too long someone else will go for them.

IMO they are the most suitable growth targets should Texas and Oklahoma decide to stay and add to the Big 12.

But they are encumbered another way, by ESPN. Right now the four letter network owns them on the cheap and capitalizes on their ever improving status. It will take the threat of FOX trying to wangle them into another conference before ESPN is willing to access their true value.

Now understand neither of them are ready to make the jump to the SEC or ACC today. But 5 years from now the influx of ACC or SEC money would just multiply their ability to grow. USF needs to work on attendance and UCF needs to work on their research investment. But the Catch 22 right now is that the SEC won't glance their way if Big 12 targets are available, and if the Big 12 decides to expand utilizing them then we may miss another brand in an important market. The ACC won't be interested unless ESPN decides to keep them. So if a rebuilding FOX Big 12 ever looks in their direction it will be fascinating to see how fast ESPN wants to secure them in order to maintain their monopoly on Florida.

And then there is the generational reason to consider their additions. Florida is a growing state comprised mostly of 1st & 2nd generation Floridians. When the Baby Boomers have died out (mostly by 2030) the living alumni bases of USF and UCF will be almost as dynamic as those of Florida and Florida State and much moreso than that of Miami. If the ACC and SEC are thinking of the future at all they need to strongly examine the shift from a Boomer driven market to one of a Millennial and Generation Y driven market. We are only talking about 13 years before these two schools hit their prime.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017 06:29 PM by JRsec.)
10-08-2017 06:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
otown Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,804
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 45
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #11
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 05:41 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

UCF made it to a BCS bowl. Then promptly went winless.

So, no.

More of a case of a coach not wanting to be there and retiring mentally while still on the job, all while losing the confidence of your players. See Bobby Bowden. See Mack Brown. Scott Frost took the same players and turned it into a bowl team. If Scott Frost hangs around, expect consistent success. Same goes for the basketball side with Dawkins. UCF would be the full package, available for the taking. Give them an invite, and Frost ain't going anywhere for the time being.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017 06:25 PM by otown.)
10-08-2017 06:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

ken d Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,502
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 332
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #12
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
The question was "does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive?". The answer to that question has to be no. Not any more than Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Marshall and any number of other schools who found short term success. Jumping on the latest big thing isn't a recipe for long term success.

Does that mean they are doomed to stay forever in a G5 conference? Then the answer to that is also no. For all the reasons JRSec articulated. None of those other schools are blessed with the strategic advantages two schools in large cities in a football hotbed. I expect that eventually they will wind up in either the ACC or SEC, because no other conference makes real sense. The question is: how long will that take?
10-08-2017 06:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
otown Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,804
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 45
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #13
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  The question was "does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive?". The answer to that question has to be no. Not any more than Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Marshall and any number of other schools who found short term success. Jumping on the latest big thing isn't a recipe for long term success.

Thats just it..... UCF bottomed out, but had a quick turnaround. In fact, they have been very successful over a long period of time with multiple conference championships, multiple 10 plus win seasons, and a BCS win over the Big 12 champ. Very inaccurate to label them as having "short term success.".............. but yes, poor wording of the question indeed, and I get your point on a technicality.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017 06:49 PM by otown.)
10-08-2017 06:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,676
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 150
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #14
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
In short, yes - but there is still plenty of time during the season for things to change. Both teams are winning on the field, but there isn't enough data to see a trend for each program's respective attendance. USF has only had two FBS home games (Illinois/Temple), with Illinois getting over 35k and Temple just getting 24k. UCF, on the other hand, has only had Memphis (34k) and FIU (38k). With those two figures alone, the only program that they would outdraw in the Big 12 would be Kansas. If UCF can start selling out their stadium consistently, that would go a long way towards legitimizing their candidacy for a P5. USF is definitely more challenging because they play at Raymond James. Other than Miami and Florida State, I don't think they have gotten any home game over 45k in recent years there.

I just don't see how politics would allow either program into the ACC or SEC unless there were mass defections.
10-08-2017 06:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,502
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 332
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #15
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:48 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 06:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  The question was "does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive?". The answer to that question has to be no. Not any more than Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Marshall and any number of other schools who found short term success. Jumping on the latest big thing isn't a recipe for long term success.

Thats just it..... UCF bottomed out, but had a quick turnaround. In fact, they have been very successful over a long period of time with multiple conference championships, multiple 10 plus win seasons, and a BCS win over the Big 12 champ. Very inaccurate to label them as having "short term success.".............. but yes, poor wording of the question indeed, and I get your point on a technicality.

But it's not a technicality. If it were, Boise State would have been invited somewhere before this. The point is it isn't about wins, whether that's over a few years or "multiple" years. The equation is a lot more complex than that.
10-08-2017 06:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
msm96wolf Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,458
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation: 110
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #16
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
The question for both schools and many G5 schools. Can you move from stepping stone status. In UCF case, Frost will probably be a hot name in P5 jobs. Dawkins will probably get a call as soon as an ACC jobs open up.
10-08-2017 06:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

otown Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,804
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 45
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #17
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:56 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  In short, yes - but there is still plenty of time during the season for things to change. Both teams are winning on the field, but there isn't enough data to see a trend for each program's respective attendance. USF has only had two FBS home games (Illinois/Temple), with Illinois getting over 35k and Temple just getting 24k. UCF, on the other hand, has only had Memphis (34k) and FIU (38k). With those two figures alone, the only program that they would outdraw in the Big 12 would be Kansas. If UCF can start selling out their stadium consistently, that would go a long way towards legitimizing their candidacy for a P5. USF is definitely more challenging because they play at Raymond James. Other than Miami and Florida State, I don't think they have gotten any home game over 45k in recent years there.

I just don't see how politics would allow either program into the ACC or SEC unless there were mass defections.

So they draw 38k for a pitiful FIU, and draw 34k for a memphis rescheduled game with rain in the forecast......... are you really gonna tell me with a strait face that you would have concerns about their attendance with a P5 conference schedule?
10-08-2017 07:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
otown Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,804
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 45
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #18
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:58 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 06:48 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 06:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  The question was "does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive?". The answer to that question has to be no. Not any more than Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Marshall and any number of other schools who found short term success. Jumping on the latest big thing isn't a recipe for long term success.

Thats just it..... UCF bottomed out, but had a quick turnaround. In fact, they have been very successful over a long period of time with multiple conference championships, multiple 10 plus win seasons, and a BCS win over the Big 12 champ. Very inaccurate to label them as having "short term success.".............. but yes, poor wording of the question indeed, and I get your point on a technicality.

But it's not a technicality. If it were, Boise State would have been invited somewhere before this. The point is it isn't about wins, whether that's over a few years or "multiple" years. The equation is a lot more complex than that.

No, its a lot more than just winning. Boise's academics are rivaled by community colleges. They are also in the middle of nowhere. However, you changed your whole argument, because I was only pointing out that the whole crux of your original post was flawed about UCF.
10-08-2017 07:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
otown Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,804
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 45
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #19
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:59 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  The question for both schools and many G5 schools. Can you move from stepping stone status. In UCF case, Frost will probably be a hot name in P5 jobs. Dawkins will probably get a call as soon as an ACC jobs open up.

Well, if you put it that way, no G5 will ever get an invite.....ever.
10-08-2017 07:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
HeartOfDixie Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,418
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation: 819
I Root For: Alabama
Location: Huntsville AL
Post: #20
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
I don’t think so.
10-08-2017 07:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.