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Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
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BadgerMJ Online
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Post: #41
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

In short, the answer is no.

Let's be realistic.

There's no chance they get into the SEC or the B1G.

The ACC has FSU and "The U" so they have a significant presence in the region. Adding either of those schools doesn't really add any significant value to the conference.

That leaves the PAC and the XII. PAC? Ain't happening. Out of all the crazy realignment ideas, adding 1 or 2 Florida schools to the PAC who's closest game would be 1800 miles away is unrealistic to be kind.

That leaves the XII. Seems that by all indications that some combo of TX, KU, and OU are ready to jump ship once the GOR expires. If any combo of 2 or all three leave, the XII becomes the equivalent of the AAC so really, what would be the point.
10-09-2017 07:06 AM
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PlayBall! Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
A big step toward the P5 goal:

UCF should acquire Florida Tech, then adopt that name. The second tech/research-intensive campus in Melbourne would help expand its overall reputation too.

The Florida Tech Panthers is a better-sounding mascot too, but some work is needed on the logo.

And, of course, keep up the good work on the field! 04-bow
10-09-2017 07:33 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 07:06 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

In short, the answer is no.

Let's be realistic.

There's no chance they get into the SEC or the B1G.

The ACC has FSU and "The U" so they have a significant presence in the region. Adding either of those schools doesn't really add any significant value to the conference.

That leaves the PAC and the XII. PAC? Ain't happening. Out of all the crazy realignment ideas, adding 1 or 2 Florida schools to the PAC who's closest game would be 1800 miles away is unrealistic to be kind.

That leaves the XII. Seems that by all indications that some combo of TX, KU, and OU are ready to jump ship once the GOR expires. If any combo of 2 or all three leave, the XII becomes the equivalent of the AAC so really, what would be the point.

There is a big difference between having a significant presence in a region and dominating it. With 4 schools to the SEC's one, the ACC would dominate the state. And if there is one state you want to dominate, Florida is on the short list.

For that reason, I don't think either the SEC or ESPN would want them both in the ACC. A more likely scenario is USF to the SEC and UCF to the ACC at some point down the road. This has the added bonus of another interconference rivalry game between the two conferences to spice up the ESPN inventory.
10-09-2017 08:08 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
Their value to the Big East was one of convenience for northeastern and midwestern schools who couldn't compete head-to-head with other major programs in their respective regions. The talent runs thick in Florida, and the pipeline was an equalizer for certain BEF programs.

I just don't see a place for them unless there's a major conference with about as much football prominence as Big East had without major programs among them.

Someone said they'd be in a Big XII without Texas and OU...well, yeah. At that point, it would be a frankenstein conference, a "best of the rest" group...that's kind of where I see them. It's where they both landed when they got BE tickets.
10-09-2017 08:16 AM
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otown Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 08:16 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Their value to the Big East was one of convenience for northeastern and midwestern schools who couldn't compete head-to-head with other major programs in their respective regions. The talent runs thick in Florida, and the pipeline was an equalizer for certain BEF programs.

I just don't see a place for them unless there's a major conference with about as much football prominence as Big East had without major programs among them.

Someone said they'd be in a Big XII without Texas and OU...well, yeah. At that point, it would be a frankenstein conference, a "best of the rest" group...that's kind of where I see them. It's where they both landed when they got BE tickets.

B12 without Texas and OU is not a P5 conference.
10-09-2017 08:20 AM
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RobUCF Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 05:12 AM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 09:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success

In the 9 seasons before receiving a Big 12 invitation, TCU won a total of 92 football games.

That is sustained success. It's way too early to talk about sustained success in year one of what a team hopes will be a long run.

That's cherry picking one team. Utah was good, but less than TCU. Louisville similar to Utah. Pitt and Syracuse, let's not even go there. You remove the winless season where UCF had a coach that quit on the team, and you are looking at Louisevill numbers. Point being?

Maryland? Rutgers? Sustained success like TCU has been the exception in recent conference alignment, not the rule.
10-09-2017 08:28 AM
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BadgerMJ Online
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Post: #47
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 08:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 07:06 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

In short, the answer is no.

Let's be realistic.

There's no chance they get into the SEC or the B1G.

The ACC has FSU and "The U" so they have a significant presence in the region. Adding either of those schools doesn't really add any significant value to the conference.

That leaves the PAC and the XII. PAC? Ain't happening. Out of all the crazy realignment ideas, adding 1 or 2 Florida schools to the PAC who's closest game would be 1800 miles away is unrealistic to be kind.

That leaves the XII. Seems that by all indications that some combo of TX, KU, and OU are ready to jump ship once the GOR expires. If any combo of 2 or all three leave, the XII becomes the equivalent of the AAC so really, what would be the point.

There is a big difference between having a significant presence in a region and dominating it. With 4 schools to the SEC's one, the ACC would dominate the state. And if there is one state you want to dominate, Florida is on the short list.

For that reason, I don't think either the SEC or ESPN would want them both in the ACC. A more likely scenario is USF to the SEC and UCF to the ACC at some point down the road. This has the added bonus of another interconference rivalry game between the two conferences to spice up the ESPN inventory.

Domination of a state isn't the focus of realignment. It's what value can a school/program add to the conference that will translate into additional $$$ come contract negotiation time.

That begs the question, does a UCF/USF add THAT much additional value to the conference that will turn into $$$. If I'm a network like ESPN and I'm looking at it from a realistic standpoint, the ACCN will already be on every provider in the state and the conference footprint is almost the whole state so the actual "value" of those schools to the grand scheme is negligible.

If they're going to expand, it will be too add additional new markets to the footprint, expand their reach and influence, not so much overlapping what they already have.
10-09-2017 08:32 AM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
tex is not going anywhere & B-12 has to expand
B-12 is so short on markets, they have to expand with eastern wing.
maybe get piece of NYC & Fla
10-09-2017 08:32 AM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 04:47 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:37 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  The day they are added to the Big 12 is the day Texas and OU will bolt

Strong words coming from a school that probably couldn't even get admitted to the Sun Belt if they had no current conference shelter.

Fortunately we do have that ACC-(P5 Membership)...but unfortunately for UCF/USF-(And I have no issue with either school) doubt it right now this one season can put them in the P5-(would like for them, UConn & UC for the Big XII)...but Louisville and Baylor for the next few years are made even though we both had major issues the past 4 years...now for Louisville we gotta clean up this horrific mess and it appears the Administration-(which is pretty much brand new) is doing just that...
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2017 09:29 AM by Maize.)
10-09-2017 09:20 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 09:20 AM)Maize Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:47 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:37 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  The day they are added to the Big 12 is the day Texas and OU will bolt

Strong words coming from a school that probably couldn't even get admitted to the Sun Belt if they had no current conference shelter.

Fortunately we do have that ACC-(P5 Membership)...but unfortunately for UCF/USF-(And I have no issue with either school) doubt it right now this one season can put them in the P5-(would like for them, UConn & UC for the Big XII)...but Louisville and Baylor for the next few years are made even though we both had major issues the past 4 years...now for Louisville we gotta clean up this horrific mess and it appears the Administration-(which is pretty much brand new) is doing just that...

I'm sure there are a million good and obvious reasons (I can think of a couple), but what about instead of the death penalty, schools like Baylor, Louisville, and Penn St are "demoted" to a non-power conference. The power conference must then either choose to stay at that odd number or bring up a school from a non-power conference. The demotion is not a death penalty but it could definitely serve as a deterrent.
10-09-2017 09:37 AM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
Good luck UCF and USF getting into a playoff conference, not very likely it will ever happen might as well stay in the AAC and help it get even better, maybe even big tv money, who knows about being added to the current playoffs, doubt it gets more added to the current 5 FBS conferences with a stupid committee anyway
Iam leaning more towards two FBS playoff divisions, current one with a committee and one with a real playoff, you know, settled on the gridiron
10-09-2017 10:00 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 05:12 AM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 09:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success

In the 9 seasons before receiving a Big 12 invitation, TCU won a total of 92 football games.

That is sustained success. It's way too early to talk about sustained success in year one of what a team hopes will be a long run.

That's cherry picking one team. Utah was good, but less than TCU. Louisville similar to Utah.

Utah won 79 football games in the 8 years before they joined the Pac. So also about 10 wins a year for many years. Louisville also had 30-plus years of top-notch basketball before joining the ACC.

But if you want to think sustaining success doesn't matter, go ahead, everyone's entitled to an opinion.
10-09-2017 10:02 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 10:00 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  Good luck UCF and USF getting into a playoff conference, not very likely it will ever happen might as well stay in the AAC and help it get even better, maybe even big tv money, who knows about being added to the current playoffs, doubt it gets more added to the current 5 FBS conferences with a stupid committee anyway
Iam leaning more towards two FBS playoff divisions, current one with a committee and one with a real playoff, you know, settled on the gridiron

By that are you suggesting that the G5 conferences, and some independents, should withdraw from the CFP contract, or that they form a separate division within the NCAA between the P5 and FCS?
10-09-2017 10:08 AM
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Big Frog II Online
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Post: #54
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
I thought they were viable candidates anyway. I really think the main reason the Big 12 did not expand was that the TV people were throwing a hissy fit. They are pretty tapped out on their contracts right now. They didn't want to pay for two more teams right now.
10-09-2017 10:14 AM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
Sustained success is important in getting into a big conference, but it's not the only way to get in
Sustained success is no guarantee either
Take it from me, a Texan, and a houstonian and just trust me on this one, it doesn't matter how many 10+ win seasons my Houston cougars string together we ain't never getting an invite to the b-12, Texas st will be in b-12 in a few years imo
10-09-2017 10:14 AM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
Ken d
If the 5 FBS nonplayoff conferences were to form their own playoffs, then it would be in direct competition with the existing playoff conferences for tv eyeballs and recruits
I don't know how or if the NCAA would be involved at that point
All I know is both divisions would have the same number of scholarships to the same recruits
Then let democracy do its thang...
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2017 10:28 AM by JHS55.)
10-09-2017 10:26 AM
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 10:02 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 05:12 AM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 09:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success

In the 9 seasons before receiving a Big 12 invitation, TCU won a total of 92 football games.

That is sustained success. It's way too early to talk about sustained success in year one of what a team hopes will be a long run.

That's cherry picking one team. Utah was good, but less than TCU. Louisville similar to Utah.

Utah won 79 football games in the 8 years before they joined the Pac. So also about 10 wins a year for many years. Louisville also had 30-plus years of top-notch basketball before joining the ACC.

But if you want to think sustaining success doesn't matter, go ahead, everyone's entitled to an opinion.

Louisville was winning hiring guys like Clint Hurtt to "recruit"....I mean buy hookers, money, and free shoes. Their success was a big sham. Along with landing elite Florida talent.
10-09-2017 10:27 AM
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Post: #58
Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
The only way any other school is getting a P5 brand is create your own, though UCF and USF are better than several P5 schools already as are Boise, SDSU, and BYU.

The solution, and it only has a semi-decent chance of working is to take the following and form a new conference: Boise, SDSU, BYU, UCF, USF, Houston, Colorado State, Troy, Marshall, Navy, Air Force, and Memphis. These all have a good football history in recent years. It also allows for a good East-West split, though Houston may not like the West.


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10-09-2017 10:34 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 05:15 AM)otown Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 12:26 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 12:12 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:37 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  The day they are added to the Big 12 is the day Texas and OU will bolt

And go where? The PAC-12 is not any better than the Big 12...And the SEC is not adding any more.

We most certainly would add either or both of those. Those two take our economic impact from over 7 billion to 10 billion.

I do not hear that at all in my circles. At least not from a lot of Florida boosters. In addition, I think you underestimate the bad blood between TAM and Texas and why the breakup happened.

You would hear it among the presidents if it were to become a possibility (if the presidents weren't so secretive). That pair has been on the radar since '91 and each have been in actual discussions with the SEC several different time over the last 25 years. It is only fan fiction that there is resistance. Oklahoma is at our academic mean and Texas improves it.

I don't think you could get accurate information on realignment from boosters anywhere. Most coaches aren't even in the loop until the the process is well down the road and the A.D. tells them, and the A.D.'s don't find out until they need to know.

When information starts leaking out usually the deals are in place and the fans are being sold on the moves. It's still a few years away from the window where any kind of credible information would be leaking out. But economically speaking there isn't a pair anywhere that would add more to the bottom line than that pair would. And that goes for any conference.

Furthermore there is no blackball power by any single institution. It takes a 3/4's vote for membership. There aren't any presidents in the SEC that would vote against a Texas inclusion. The Aggies president might vote against them in the straw vote (which is the official vote) but the most he could do in the formal vote would be to abstain. All SEC membership votes end unanimously. The voice vote (straw poll) is where we have nays and discuss the reason. Once a candidate gets 3/4's our protocol covers the nays with the official vote which shall be unanimous. It's just good business to start new relationships without bad blood, even if the new relationship is an old one.

Besides if Texas were steered to the SEC it would be ESPN that was backing them. In '91 the conference was more in control of realignment. In 2011 it was the network that was more in control. Since any conference won't add a member that doesn't add to the bottom line, and since the networks control the valuations of the candidates, it is the network which now says whether that school will earn us more or less.

There isn't a network or provider out there that would say no to fuller control of Texas or Oklahoma. They are the #2 & #3 highest valued programs in the nation. Alabama is #4 and Ohio State is #1. The SEC has 5 of the top 10 and is the highest valued conference. Taking that pair cements that position for the foreseeable future and the economic impact should account for between 5 to 6 million more per year per SEC school in our media rights deal.

When schools like those want to discuss future moves they conduct that in almost total secrecy. 2010-1 was a gross exception and the deals blew up.

So when Finebaum, or Dennis Dodds, or any of the talking heads are yammering about somebody's possible inclusion they are usually generating business in the off season or floating trial balloons. And those who follow twitter leaks or the "Dude" of anywhere speak it's almost always conjecture at best and trolling at worst. And if it is a booster usually what has happened is the booster suggests an idea to a coach and the coaches now are pretty savvy about just agreeing with whatever the booster suggests, but in a non committal way. That way the booster feels like he/she has inside information and in reality they know nothing.
10-09-2017 10:48 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-09-2017 07:06 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

In short, the answer is no.

Let's be realistic.

There's no chance they get into the SEC or the B1G.

The ACC has FSU and "The U" so they have a significant presence in the region. Adding either of those schools doesn't really add any significant value to the conference.

That leaves the PAC and the XII. PAC? Ain't happening. Out of all the crazy realignment ideas, adding 1 or 2 Florida schools to the PAC who's closest game would be 1800 miles away is unrealistic to be kind.

That leaves the XII. Seems that by all indications that some combo of TX, KU, and OU are ready to jump ship once the GOR expires. If any combo of 2 or all three leave, the XII becomes the equivalent of the AAC so really, what would be the point.

Key word here is "seems." It could be that the Big 12 could stay together.
10-09-2017 10:56 AM
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