(10-07-2017 11:36 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(10-07-2017 11:08 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  

(10-07-2017 10:59 PM)StevenNIU Wrote:  So playing time decisions are never made because players work harder and improve, it only happens because the coach realizes he made a mistake.

What the hell are you talking about? Be specific.

Bad moon rising, I am very impressed with your passion for NIU football.
Today you seemed complementary towards the coaches.
Pretty much agree with allot of your opinions today.
You were very positive today.
Keep up your incredible passion for NIU FB.

I was pleasantly surprised that they stuck with Childers and they called a good game despite the weather conditions. Now, if only they can improve the special teams...

(10-07-2017 10:09 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  Childers played much, much better than Santa today. Santa would have won today's game as well but he would not have played as well as Childers. You go with performance until the kid doesn't perform...

This is where your argument goes off track. I am not saying you are wrong with this comment, but this comment supports the very decision making issues you have so adamantly been critical of with Carey. Carey had an open competition in camp, and let the individual oerformance dictate who wins. Graham apparently won that battle. Graham goes down and Santa steps in and does everything that is asked of him (and more) with the exception of a horrible pass, on a potential game winning drive (on a questionable play call); against the best team the program has faced since OSU. Childers comes in and does a good, not great, job against a weak opponent. So you, like Carey, jump of the Santa bandwagon that you have been riding so hard until the last 2 minutes of SDSU.
Carey is making decisions on the data he has in front of him, that will give the team the best chance to win. He made a call today and the team won a game against an inferior opponent. So strap up the Childers saddle and ride that horse for as long as he will take you, until he screws up. Isn't it ironic that in the end you and Carey seem to be completely aligned?

(10-08-2017 06:12 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-07-2017 10:09 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  Childers played much, much better than Santa today. Santa would have won today's game as well but he would not have played as well as Childers. You go with performance until the kid doesn't perform...

This is where your argument goes off track. I am not saying you are wrong with this comment, but this comment supports the very decision making issues you have so adamantly been critical of with Carey. Carey had an open competition in camp, and let the individual oerformance dictate who wins. Graham apparently won that battle. Graham goes down and Santa steps in and does everything that is asked of him (and more) with the exception of a horrible pass, on a potential game winning drive (on a questionable play call); against the best team the program has faced since OSU. Childers comes in and does a good, not great, job against a weak opponent. So you, like Carey, jump of the Santa bandwagon that you have been riding so hard until the last 2 minutes of SDSU.
Carey is making decisions on the data he has in front of him, that will give the team the best chance to win. He made a call today and the team won a game against an inferior opponent. So strap up the Childers saddle and ride that horse for as long as he will take you, until he screws up. Isn't it ironic that in the end you and Carey seem to be completely aligned?

Which argument are you talking about? I still think Santa is a much better choice at QB than Graham; anyone can see that. He's still 5-1 as a starter... Now for the first time I've seen Childers outperform Santa in the same conditions and against the exact same competition so it's a no brainer. If you think it's ironic that Carey and I agree on a QB, whatever. I'm glad it happened. It's about time. Let's hope Childers keeps playing well and develops to lead us to huge things. It's funny how so many people are focused on me and not the team. I think the QB situation is solid now. I hope the staff finds a way to keep Santa engaged and developing for if / when Childers gets hurt.

I ceratainly wouldn't mind if Santa played a couple drives to hand the ball to Huff and throw a couple deep balls...

Of course Childers needs to come right in when we get anywhere close to the red zone. Santa can get those reps when we have comfortable leads.

This round table of Qbs shows how difficult it is on the coaches to choose one guy. When Graham was initially named the starter, we all shrugged. When he got hurt and Santa stepped in and made some big plays...everyone felt confirmed. Santa was the obvious choice. Duh. Then Santa started to make terrible passes/decisions. That was why Carey went with Graham in the first place. Carey saw that terrible decision making from Santa in practice. Now Childers comes in and looks impressive on the ground. But honestly, the guy is maybe average at best at passing. I'll cut him some slack with the conditions, but many of those passes were duck ugly. And I have to believe thats what he's looked like in practice too. What do you do? Choose Graham and play it safe? You have the D. Just avoid TOs. That's common football logic. Choose the big pass play Santa? IF he doesn't make those mistakes, you may put up 45 every game? Choose Childers and go with the guy who best suits the offense? But if his run game gets schemed for by the defenses and you have to rely on his arm. UH-oh.

I almost never like a 2 qb system, but I think we need Santa and Childers to play about 60/40. Hell, bring Childers in once you hit the red zone. You can't afford to eliminate Blake and Spears from the offense. That will happen if Childers plays the entire game. If not the combo of those 2. Just play Graham and hope to win 21-17 every game.

(10-08-2017 08:39 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  This round table of Qbs shows how difficult it is on the coaches to choose one guy. When Graham was initially named the starter, we all shrugged. When he got hurt and Santa stepped in and made some big plays...everyone felt confirmed. Santa was the obvious choice. Duh. Then Santa started to make terrible passes/decisions. That was why Carey went with Graham in the first place. Carey saw that terrible decision making from Santa in practice. Now Childers comes in and looks impressive on the ground. But honestly, the guy is maybe average at best at passing. I'll cut him some slack with the conditions, but many of those passes were duck ugly. And I have to believe thats what he's looked like in practice too. What do you do? Choose Graham and play it safe? You have the D. Just avoid TOs. That's common football logic. Choose the big pass play Santa? IF he doesn't make those mistakes, you may put up 45 every game? Choose Childers and go with the guy who best suits the offense? But if his run game gets schemed for by the defenses and you have to rely on his arm. UH-oh.

I almost never like a 2 qb system, but I think we need Santa and Childers to play about 60/40. Hell, bring Childers in once you hit the red zone. You can't afford to eliminate Blake and Spears from the offense. That will happen if Childers plays the entire game. If not the combo of those 2. Just play Graham and hope to win 21-17 every game.

Solid points. I’d have to agree. As much as a 2 QB system isn’t ideal I think it probably is our best bet at this point. Also will make the opposing defenses prepare for more


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http://www.daily-chronicle.com/lists/201...xml?page=7

Quote:So what does Childers' breakout performance mean for the NIU quarterback siutation going forward?

"I don't know about the quarterbacks going forward," Carey said. "I have confidence in all of them, but I do know this … We’ve got to stop turning the ball over at the quarterback spot. That’s the biggest take away right now."

I don't often agree with RC, but when I do, it's that TURNOVERS ARE BAD.

None of these 3 guys have enough throwing talent to cover up turnovers.

(10-07-2017 11:08 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  

(10-07-2017 10:59 PM)StevenNIU Wrote:  So playing time decisions are never made because players work harder and improve, it only happens because the coach realizes he made a mistake.

What the hell are you talking about? Be specific.

I cannot be specific because, like you, I am not at practice every day to see who is working harder, understanding what is needed of them and who is moving up the depth chart. My point is that the starting lineup is a snapshot in time, the coaches' best estimate as to who will give them the best chance to win the game at that time. Do they make mistakes? Sure. Everyone does. My point is that to think that a coach makes a decision about playing time or a particular play to run because of a hidden agenda is difficult to believe.

Badmoon, I have no beef with you or anyone, I enjoy your passion for NIU football. You just happened to respond to me so we are having this discussion. I feel that it is too easy to sit here with hindsight and say that because a particular play didn't work or a backup played better, then that must mean that the coach sucks and needs to be replaced. Every play in their playbook is designed to score a touchdown and to question motive after a play is unsuccessful is unfair. The other team gives out scholarships and they game plan to stop what we do.

Again, I love you passion,I just wish you would temper it a bit.

(10-08-2017 09:22 AM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  http://www.daily-chronicle.com/lists/201...xml?page=7

Quote:So what does Childers' breakout performance mean for the NIU quarterback siutation going forward?

Quote:"I don't know about the quarterbacks going forward," Carey said. "I have confidence in all of them, but I do know this … We’ve got to stop turning the ball over at the quarterback spot. That’s the biggest take away right now."

I don't often agree with RC, but when I do, it's that TURNOVERS ARE BAD.

None of these 3 guys have enough throwing talent to cover up turnovers.

Check the stat line from yesterday's college games; it's hard to find a team that doesn't throw interceptions; rare was the team that didn't have a pick 6. Turnovers are a part of the game; absolutely they need to minimized, but unless you go back to a 1960's run game, passing turnovers will happen. Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and 2 are bad for a QB. If their is a criticism about Carey it's that none of these QB's have ever felt like the job was truly theirs. This adds even more stress to a challenging situation. BTW, what was the purpose of putting Santa back in the game at the end? To hand the ball off and take a knee?

Well---we could have the Buffalo quarterback who threw for SEVEN touchdowns yesterday and ran in another----and LOST.

I know, I know, six gajillion overtimes. All tongue in cheek, but that is a tough one to explain to your grandchildren some day.

(10-08-2017 09:48 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 09:22 AM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  http://www.daily-chronicle.com/lists/201...xml?page=7

Quote:So what does Childers' breakout performance mean for the NIU quarterback siutation going forward?

Quote:"I don't know about the quarterbacks going forward," Carey said. "I have confidence in all of them, but I do know this … We’ve got to stop turning the ball over at the quarterback spot. That’s the biggest take away right now."

I don't often agree with RC, but when I do, it's that TURNOVERS ARE BAD.

None of these 3 guys have enough throwing talent to cover up turnovers.

Check the stat line from yesterday's college games; it's hard to find a team that doesn't throw interceptions; rare was the team that didn't have a pick 6. Turnovers are a part of the game; absolutely they need to minimized, but unless you go back to a 1960's run game, passing turnovers will happen. Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and 2 are bad for a QB. If their is a criticism about Carey it's that none of these QB's have ever felt like the job was truly theirs. This adds even more stress to a challenging situation. BTW, what was the purpose of putting Santa back in the game at the end? To hand the ball off and take a knee?

Probably for his confidence, they are going to need him.

(10-08-2017 09:50 AM)StevenNIU Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 09:48 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 09:22 AM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  http://www.daily-chronicle.com/lists/201...xml?page=7

Quote:So what does Childers' breakout performance mean for the NIU quarterback siutation going forward?

Quote:"I don't know about the quarterbacks going forward," Carey said. "I have confidence in all of them, but I do know this … We’ve got to stop turning the ball over at the quarterback spot. That’s the biggest take away right now."

I don't often agree with RC, but when I do, it's that TURNOVERS ARE BAD.

None of these 3 guys have enough throwing talent to cover up turnovers.

Check the stat line from yesterday's college games; it's hard to find a team that doesn't throw interceptions; rare was the team that didn't have a pick 6. Turnovers are a part of the game; absolutely they need to minimized, but unless you go back to a 1960's run game, passing turnovers will happen. Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and 2 are bad for a QB. If their is a criticism about Carey it's that none of these QB's have ever felt like the job was truly theirs. This adds even more stress to a challenging situation. BTW, what was the purpose of putting Santa back in the game at the end? To hand the ball off and take a knee?

Probably for his confidence, they are going to need him.

Honestly that seems more like an insult than a confidence builder.

Looking at Santa's INT again, he shouldn't have thrown it but it was a nice catch by the defender. And as it turned out, Childers also threw a pick.

I just wonder whether with Childers we'll have enough of a passing attack so that teams can't stack the box. And then neither Childers or Huff will get very far. Hard to tell from this game, but an early pick by Santa in those conditions aren't enough to make me think we can't win with him when we beat Nebraska and almost beat SDSU with him. Just wondering who is going to play against Buffalo now.

(10-07-2017 09:13 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  Buffalo and Howard scoring more points against Kent than we did... Kent D-Line played awesome. Pushed our guys around...

Probably should not be overly critical of our offense given the horrendous weather conditions.

The coach also said in the post-game show that Kent State has a pretty good D-line. I wouldn't be surprised, offense has always been their issue, usually their defense is fairly solid. Add to that the difficulty in throwing long to loosen things up in those conditions and I guess the lack of running game is somewhat understandable. I also wonder if there was a bit of a letdown after the big Nebraska and SDSU games.

Can you imagine how awful the Huskies and their fans will feel if they did run the MAC table. The BC and SDSU games will be so haunting.

(10-08-2017 10:44 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  Can you imagine how awful the Huskies and their fans will feel if they did run the MAC table. The BC and SDSU games will be so haunting.

If they run the table I won't feel awful at all. I'll wish they would have won those games, but running the table would be fun to see.

(10-08-2017 10:47 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 10:44 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  Can you imagine how awful the Huskies and their fans will feel if they did run the MAC table. The BC and SDSU games will be so haunting.

If they run the table I won't feel awful at all. I'll wish they would have won those games, but running the table would be fun to see.

I agree. Running the table would be overachieving especially with how low expectations were before the season started.

(10-08-2017 10:11 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 09:50 AM)StevenNIU Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 09:48 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 09:22 AM)thxjoenovak Wrote:  http://www.daily-chronicle.com/lists/201...xml?page=7

Quote:So what does Childers' breakout performance mean for the NIU quarterback siutation going forward?

Quote:"I don't know about the quarterbacks going forward," Carey said. "I have confidence in all of them, but I do know this … We’ve got to stop turning the ball over at the quarterback spot. That’s the biggest take away right now."

I don't often agree with RC, but when I do, it's that TURNOVERS ARE BAD.

None of these 3 guys have enough throwing talent to cover up turnovers.

Check the stat line from yesterday's college games; it's hard to find a team that doesn't throw interceptions; rare was the team that didn't have a pick 6. Turnovers are a part of the game; absolutely they need to minimized, but unless you go back to a 1960's run game, passing turnovers will happen. Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and 2 are bad for a QB. If their is a criticism about Carey it's that none of these QB's have ever felt like the job was truly theirs. This adds even more stress to a challenging situation. BTW, what was the purpose of putting Santa back in the game at the end? To hand the ball off and take a knee?

Probably for his confidence, they are going to need him.

Honestly that seems more like an insult than a confidence builder.

Looking at Santa's INT again, he shouldn't have thrown it but it was a nice catch by the defender. And as it turned out, Childers also threw a pick.

I just wonder whether with Childers we'll have enough of a passing attack so that teams can't stack the box. And then neither Childers or Huff will get very far. Hard to tell from this game, but an early pick by Santa in those conditions aren't enough to make me think we can't win with him when we beat Nebraska and almost beat SDSU with him. Just wondering who is going to play against Buffalo now.

Long-range Buffalo forecast:
Partly cloudy. High of 70 degrees.
Winds 10-15. 15% chance of rain.

=Santa starts.

(10-08-2017 09:24 AM)StevenNIU Wrote:  

(10-07-2017 11:08 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote:  

(10-07-2017 10:59 PM)StevenNIU Wrote:  So playing time decisions are never made because players work harder and improve, it only happens because the coach realizes he made a mistake.

What the hell are you talking about? Be specific.

I cannot be specific because, like you, I am not at practice every day to see who is working harder, understanding what is needed of them and who is moving up the depth chart. My point is that the starting lineup is a snapshot in time, the coaches' best estimate as to who will give them the best chance to win the game at that time. Do they make mistakes? Sure. Everyone does. My point is that to think that a coach makes a decision about playing time or a particular play to run because of a hidden agenda is difficult to believe.

Badmoon, I have no beef with you or anyone, I enjoy your passion for NIU football. You just happened to respond to me so we are having this discussion. I feel that it is too easy to sit here with hindsight and say that because a particular play didn't work or a backup played better, then that must mean that the coach sucks and needs to be replaced. Every play in their playbook is designed to score a touchdown and to question motive after a play is unsuccessful is unfair. The other team gives out scholarships and they game plan to stop what we do.

Again, I love you passion,I just wish you would temper it a bit.

Everything I've said have never been hindsight. I've said it before the decision and in game before the plays. I think it's bad form to second guess after the fact. Obviously, I feel very strong about my opinion and I still believe the coaches made some awful decisions that cost us the BC game and the SDSU game, but hopefully they're getting better. They've obviously done a good job recruiting now they have to do better with in-game management and signs are promising. I would've never thought they'd stay with Childers. As for Childers, it's impressive to see the freshman outperform Santa in the same condition against the same defense. He has the physical tools and it looks like the poise and the leadership skills to do very well. I still think we can win a lot of games with Santa but Childers out played him so we have to go with him. Graham shouldn't even be in the conversation.