The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(10-09-2017 06:18 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:17 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:11 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:04 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  I like that others can help me make my points. Fleck changed the expectations of the alumni, boosters, and fanbase and having Cubit assistants back is irritating, especially when you stood in the cold, driving rain expecting a Tim Hiller coronation, but were instead treated to an uninspiring loss to Ball State.

(10-09-2017 05:03 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  We were weak up-front on most Cubit Offensive Teams. The OL Coach wasn't getting the job done (wasn't his name Voth or something like that?). We had attrition in that sector during his tenure. You can't run the ball if you don't have the bulls up front and if you can't run the ball in the MAC you're not going to win championships. Cubit needed to fire someone, he didn't.

(10-09-2017 12:54 PM)GullLake Wrote:  The 2006 choke-job loss (that still pizzes me off) to CMU was in October, giving the division championship to CMU. If only Cubit had played a QB other than his son that season, maybe he wouldn't have lost twice to Brian Kelly (the International Bowl vs. Cincinnati was a disaster).

Football teams don't play just to reach the "hump." They play to get over it. Despite his flaws & quirks, PJ got WMU over it and beat NIU 45-30 during last season's championship run.

Had Cubit somehow won a championship, while getting owned by CMU, I could forgive him for having a losing record to the Chippewas. But he didn't. Results matter and banners aren't hung when you finish 3rd or 4th.

Awww you poor dear. That must have been awful for you.

Was it equally as awful when Fleck left your school in a lurch, resigned overnight with no goodbye and flipped 11 or so three star recruits to Minny or was that ok with you?

Fleck could be banging their daughter and some of these Flecktards would still be swooning over his "magical season."

Daughter? You sure? But yeah, I get your point.

I personally think that hooker looking chick is his beard.

(10-09-2017 08:52 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 08:58 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 07:55 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  The problem with hiring a third of Cubit's staff is that he hired a third of Cubit's staff. These hires should have been disallowed.

You do understand that Western Michigan is not a destination school for assistant coaches. It pays well by MAC standards, but it's mostly a resume builder. Fact is we are fortunate to get these guys. By your logic, we shouldn't hire John Harbaugh because he was part of the Harbaugh staff at Western.

You guys act as if we never won a game under Cubit, even though he had several excellent seasons.

Don't get like the Chip fans who think only championships matter, even though they've predominately been a losing program for the last 20 years. There is no Ohio State of the MAC and there never will be. It's a pretty level playing field. Getting quality assistants is as much about who you know as it is who you are. That said we got an Air Force Academy Coach to leave for a lateral move. We got a coach to leave another MAC school in a lateral move. And we got a guy with a head coaching gig to leave. Some because they liked Lester, the school, and the community.

This guilt by association crap is ridiculous. Should we dump our Penn State coach because he worked with Perv Sandusky. Yeah, I didn't think so.

If your program is not in the championship chase come November, it has not been a successful season. If your program loses to its arch-rival, and is not in the championship chase come November it has been a bad season.

Bill Cubit's teams were never in the championship chase come November and inexcusably lost 5 consecutive games to CMU (not sure how you can forgive and forget that, Chipdip2), other than Bill is a likable gentleman.

Ultimately, you play to compete for championships and beat your rival. He did neither.

That said, I agree the "guilt by association crap is ridiculous."

WMU is 2-0 in the MAC and has beaten CMU three straight. If the Broncos are out of contention before CMU comes to town on 11/1, then LOSES to CMU, then there is plenty of reason to whine. Not now, however.

I guess you're entitled to your opinion, more power to you brother!

Also, how'd you come up with that user name? If you are who I think you are and you live on Gull Lake, then you're an MSU grad, why the WMU love here? Don't you like Sparty?

(10-09-2017 06:45 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  FWIW, thinking Fleck is a douche and remembering 2016 as a magical season are not mutually exclusive.

I was never crazy about the way he carried himself. Does that mean I can't acknowledge the change in expectations for our program? Of course not.

If we sit here and say he didn't change anything since December of 2012, we're incredibly naïve.

(10-09-2017 06:41 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 08:52 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 08:58 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 07:55 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  The problem with hiring a third of Cubit's staff is that he hired a third of Cubit's staff. These hires should have been disallowed.

You do understand that Western Michigan is not a destination school for assistant coaches. It pays well by MAC standards, but it's mostly a resume builder. Fact is we are fortunate to get these guys. By your logic, we shouldn't hire John Harbaugh because he was part of the Harbaugh staff at Western.

You guys act as if we never won a game under Cubit, even though he had several excellent seasons.

Don't get like the Chip fans who think only championships matter, even though they've predominately been a losing program for the last 20 years. There is no Ohio State of the MAC and there never will be. It's a pretty level playing field. Getting quality assistants is as much about who you know as it is who you are. That said we got an Air Force Academy Coach to leave for a lateral move. We got a coach to leave another MAC school in a lateral move. And we got a guy with a head coaching gig to leave. Some because they liked Lester, the school, and the community.

This guilt by association crap is ridiculous. Should we dump our Penn State coach because he worked with Perv Sandusky. Yeah, I didn't think so.

If your program is not in the championship chase come November, it has not been a successful season. If your program loses to its arch-rival, and is not in the championship chase come November it has been a bad season.

Bill Cubit's teams were never in the championship chase come November and inexcusably lost 5 consecutive games to CMU (not sure how you can forgive and forget that, Chipdip2), other than Bill is a likable gentleman.

Ultimately, you play to compete for championships and beat your rival. He did neither.

That said, I agree the "guilt by association crap is ridiculous."

WMU is 2-0 in the MAC and has beaten CMU three straight. If the Broncos are out of contention before CMU comes to town on 11/1, then LOSES to CMU, then there is plenty of reason to whine. Not now, however.

I guess you're entitled to your opinion, more power to you brother!

Also, how'd you come up with that user name? If you are who I think you are and you live on Gull Lake, then you're an MSU grad, why the WMU love here? Don't you like Sparty?

Man you've gotten boring, you aren't even trying anymore!

(10-09-2017 06:48 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:45 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  FWIW, thinking Fleck is a douche and remembering 2016 as a magical season are not mutually exclusive.

I was never crazy about the way he carried himself. Does that mean I can't acknowledge the change in expectations for our program? Of course not.

If we sit here and say he didn't change anything since December of 2012, we're incredibly naïve.

Naive is thinking he did it all on the up and up "magically". He mind sexed a whole community, Pied piper style.

Right down to piping the kids/recruits out of the town to Minnesota.

(10-09-2017 06:51 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  Naive is thinking he did it all on the up and up "magically". He mind sexed a whole community, Pied piper style.

Right down to piping the kids/recruits out of the town to Minnesota.

Which, of course, was less than desirable. In the end, those who argued that he only cared about himself probably felt vindicated, in some form.

The idea of Cubit ascending this program to the MACC, the AP and Coaches' top 25, ESPN College Gameday, AND a NY6 bowl is laughable. Fleck did it and, yes, ran to Minnesota, but also recruited way better than Cubit ever did and forbade the acceptance of mediocrity.

Fleck went on record several times saying that he asked the players of when they were going to be tired of being average.

Do we have to like the guy? No. But to ignore what the program accomplished during his tenure is shortsighted.

(10-09-2017 12:24 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 08:52 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 08:58 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 07:55 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  The problem with hiring a third of Cubit's staff is that he hired a third of Cubit's staff. These hires should have been disallowed.

You do understand that Western Michigan is not a destination school for assistant coaches. It pays well by MAC standards, but it's mostly a resume builder. Fact is we are fortunate to get these guys. By your logic, we shouldn't hire John Harbaugh because he was part of the Harbaugh staff at Western.

You guys act as if we never won a game under Cubit, even though he had several excellent seasons.

Don't get like the Chip fans who think only championships matter, even though they've predominately been a losing program for the last 20 years. There is no Ohio State of the MAC and there never will be. It's a pretty level playing field. Getting quality assistants is as much about who you know as it is who you are. That said we got an Air Force Academy Coach to leave for a lateral move. We got a coach to leave another MAC school in a lateral move. And we got a guy with a head coaching gig to leave. Some because they liked Lester, the school, and the community.

This guilt by association crap is ridiculous. Should we dump our Penn State coach because he worked with Perv Sandusky. Yeah, I didn't think so.

If your program is not in the championship chase come November, it has not been a successful season. If your program loses to its arch-rival, and is not in the championship chase come November it has been a bad season.

Bill Cubit's teams were never in the championship chase come November and inexcusably lost 5 consecutive games to CMU (not sure how you can forgive and forget that, Chipdip2), other than Bill is a likable gentleman.

Ultimately, you play to compete for championships and beat your rival. He did neither.

That said, I agree the "guilt by association crap is ridiculous."

WMU is 2-0 in the MAC and has beaten CMU three straight. If the Broncos are out of contention before CMU comes to town on 11/1, then LOSES to CMU, then there is plenty of reason to whine. Not now, however.

First of all, cubit was in championship contention several times in November, just didn't get over the hump. It sucks that he lost to CMU so many times as well but CMU then was like niu during pj's reign. How did pj do against niu when he was here?

You're right, we went into NIU looking for a win and the division, when we got beat up, hurt our QB and lost badly. Don't let the reality get in the way of a good rant there doughboy!!!

2005 WMU CMU tied for 2nd at 5-3

2006 WMU finished 6-2 and CMU 7-1

2007 WMU finished 4th CMU 1st

2008 Both tied at 6-2

2009 CMU 1st WMU 3rd

2010 WMU 3rd 5-3 CMU 5th

2011 WMU 3rd 5-3 CMU 6th 2-6

2012 WMU 5th CMU 4th
---------------------------

So in the golden era of CMU football and the doldrums of the Cubit era

Two tied years

CMU finished ahead 4 times

WMU 2 times

2006 was the one year they could have snatched the title, but the late bomb to the Rockford kid ended that.

Timing wise Cubit had to be fired. Like most coaches in their 8th year the program needed a new face.

(10-09-2017 07:00 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:51 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  Naive is thinking he did it all on the up and up "magically". He mind sexed a whole community, Pied piper style.

Right down to piping the kids/recruits out of the town to Minnesota.

Which, of course, was less than desirable. In the end, those who argued that he only cared about himself probably felt vindicated, in some form.

The idea of Cubit ascending this program to the MACC, the AP and Coaches' top 25, ESPN College Gameday, AND a NY6 bowl is laughable. Fleck did it and, yes, ran to Minnesota, but also recruited way better than Cubit ever did and forbade the acceptance of mediocrity.

Fleck went on record several times saying that he asked the players of when they were going to be tired of being average.

Do we have to like the guy? No. But to ignore what the program accomplished during his tenure is shortsighted.

Nobody is "ignoring" that one year that was a perfect alignment of the schedule, class and some looking the other way compliance wise. Can't ignore that the team with 13-0 and won the MACC.

You also can't ignore that he was a complete jack wagon, a pompous self serving jerk and that you guys took to him like the girls in the court did the dashing young prince. THAT and you're willing to fight to the mat for him still.

He's gone, he left you yet you hate on the guy we have at the first hint of a perceived falter.

I'm happy the "self promoter" is gone before the program got in really big trouble. Only took him a MONTH and Minnesota to get an NCAA violation.

(10-09-2017 07:04 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

2005 WMU CMU tied for 2nd at 5-3

2006 WMU finished 6-2 and CMU 7-1

2007 WMU finished 4th CMU 1st

2008 Both tied at 6-2

2009 CMU 1st WMU 3rd

2010 WMU 3rd 5-3 CMU 5th

2011 WMU 3rd 5-3 CMU 6th 2-6

2012 WMU 5th CMU 4th
---------------------------

So in the golden era of CMU football and the doldrums of the Cubit era

Two tied years

CMU finished ahead 4 times

WMU 2 times

2006 was the one year they could have snatched the title, but the late bomb to the Rockford kid ended that.

Timing wise Cubit had to be fired. Like most coaches in their 8th year the program needed a new face.

Spot on. Somehow I expect this to get lost here.

(10-09-2017 06:18 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Lol. Wonder who this guy could possibly be.

What was your first hint? The creative username or the 14 posts in day one?

I have honestly never seen a man so obsessed with male sexuality.

(10-09-2017 11:37 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I have honestly never seen a man so obsessed with male sexuality.

There you go again fruitcake.

(10-09-2017 11:41 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 11:37 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I have honestly never seen a man so obsessed with male sexuality.

There you go again fruitcake.

"I tried to use Bannedbronco, Pusky, persrod, queerforflecktoo, CantBelieveImPassingAsStraight, WishIHadARealCareer, SocialMediaIsntARealJob and a few others but they were taken. Thinking those are you?"

You sure won this internet argument by deleting your post! Foiled again by the biggest loser to ever join this site!

(10-09-2017 11:55 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 11:41 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 11:37 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I have honestly never seen a man so obsessed with male sexuality.

There you go again fruitcake.

"I tried to use Bannedbronco, Pusky, persrod, queerforflecktoo, CantBelieveImPassingAsStraight, WishIHadARealCareer, SocialMediaIsntARealJob and a few others but they were taken. Thinking those are you?"

You sure won this internet argument by deleting your post! Foiled again by the biggest loser to ever join this site!

Those are funny, but I didn't say that. You will go to any lengths to be a web jerk won't you? You really feel that way about your pal?

(10-09-2017 11:57 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 11:55 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 11:41 PM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 11:37 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I have honestly never seen a man so obsessed with male sexuality.

There you go again fruitcake.

"I tried to use Bannedbronco, Pusky, persrod, queerforflecktoo, CantBelieveImPassingAsStraight, WishIHadARealCareer, SocialMediaIsntARealJob and a few others but they were taken. Thinking those are you?"

You sure won this internet argument by deleting your post! Foiled again by the biggest loser to ever join this site!

Those are funny, but I didn't say that. You will go to any lengths to be a web jerk won't you?

Ok

Yay! DB has re-invented himself again! WOOHOO!

(10-10-2017 12:08 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Yay! DB has re-invented himself again! WOOHOO!

Oh you, forgot about about the "flush". Getting late, are you again?

(10-10-2017 12:10 AM)ChicagoMan Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 12:08 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Yay! DB has re-invented himself again! WOOHOO!

Oh you, forgot about about the "flush". Getting late, are you again?

Curious about the "Chicago" Man... Shouldn't you be more the "Phoenix" man?

Quote:Curious about the "Chicago" Man... Shouldn't you be more the "Phoenix" man?

Maybe he's got roots in Chi-town. It's not too far from where PJ went to school! :)