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TruBlu Offline
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Post: #81
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
If Conference Winning% represents conference strength top to bottom, there are 4 clear FBS tiers. Differences within each tier are not material.

Bundesliga
0.654 SEC
0.649 B1G
0.647 PAC

Bundesliga2
0.600 ACC
0.600 B12
0.578 AAC

Bundesliga3
0.478 MWC
0.464 MAC
0.453 C-USA

Club
0.417 Independents
0.390 SBC
10-10-2017 02:11 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #82
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

How is it going to take years to achieve? It sure looks like the AAC is already a tweener conference. By nearly every measure, there is already separation between them and the #7 conference, the MWC.

The problem the AAC has is that there really isn't any path for them to reach parity with the top five conferences. Nobody is going to move down from those conferences voluntarily, and there aren't any G5 teams they could add that would move them up in stature. All they could hope for with expansion is further separation from the MWC.

And because they have the most brands who have the potential to get called up to the bigs, the only way they can move relative to the P5 is down. Unless there is some game-changing blockbuster disruption in the force, maintaining the status quo seems to be the most realistic goal. If they can do that - which was not a sure thing at the time of their last media negotiation - then maybe they get a few more bucks for already being a tweener.

Well there is a way to move up---thats the part that takes years. And in reality, its more like decades. The path to moving up is simply for each member school to cultivate its own fanbase and grow the overall number of conference followers. If the AAC has an average attendence of 40-50K in a 10 to 20 years---it will essentially become a power conference because the audience is too big to ignore. For the AAC to reach those numbers, you can assume that Tulsa and Tulane are not greatly improved. They probably are still 30K-ish at best. The key is to develop several teams with 60-65K attendance numbers and have the majority to hover around or just over 40K. That means SMU has to gain traction in Dallas while Temple does the same in Phillie. Schools like ECU, UCF, and USF have to continue to grow and reach their potential. Then, while all this is happening, you need for no major asset to be poached....and even if all that happens....like I said---it could take a decade or even multiple decades before we see it.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2017 03:39 PM by Attackcoog.)
10-10-2017 03:37 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #83
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:40 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

The problem is twofold: The first one is that the AAC has the exact same problem that the Big east(Pre-Split) did: It was propped up by it's Basketball. Without that, you would be just another Conference.

The second one is Ego. There is no secret that 10 of the 12 (at the time) Schools reached out to the Big XII. If I am apart of the Brass at Tulsa, I do not trust the other Schools at all(I firmly believe that them and Navy were the only Two that did not even try. Navy would have go back to be Independent and Tulsa was just Screwed). Your Conference would have hung them out to dry like C-USA did to Southern Miss when everyone Bolted.

There was a reason that even the Basketball Conferences were laughing at you on this site last Bowl Season. I understand that you are trying to Market yourselves better. I get that, I really do. However the arrogance will haunt you in the end and all you will get is voicemails and no response.......

I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.
10-10-2017 03:59 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #84
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 03:59 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:40 AM)lance99 Wrote:  The problem is twofold: The first one is that the AAC has the exact same problem that the Big east(Pre-Split) did: It was propped up by it's Basketball. Without that, you would be just another Conference.

The second one is Ego. There is no secret that 10 of the 12 (at the time) Schools reached out to the Big XII. If I am apart of the Brass at Tulsa, I do not trust the other Schools at all(I firmly believe that them and Navy were the only Two that did not even try. Navy would have go back to be Independent and Tulsa was just Screwed). Your Conference would have hung them out to dry like C-USA did to Southern Miss when everyone Bolted.

There was a reason that even the Basketball Conferences were laughing at you on this site last Bowl Season. I understand that you are trying to Market yourselves better. I get that, I really do. However the arrogance will haunt you in the end and all you will get is voicemails and no response.......

I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.

If the Great State of Texas is tapped (by the XII and SEC West) so is Florida. You have the three in-state P5 schools plus the SEC, ACC, B1G and West Virginia recruiting the state heavily. Why have the Big XII get equal access? You're only helping the likes of Iowa State gain more access to recruits. You're deluding your prospects. That's why I don't see either U_F twin going to the XII or any P5 conference for that matter.
10-10-2017 04:33 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #85
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 03:37 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

How is it going to take years to achieve? It sure looks like the AAC is already a tweener conference. By nearly every measure, there is already separation between them and the #7 conference, the MWC.

The problem the AAC has is that there really isn't any path for them to reach parity with the top five conferences. Nobody is going to move down from those conferences voluntarily, and there aren't any G5 teams they could add that would move them up in stature. All they could hope for with expansion is further separation from the MWC.

And because they have the most brands who have the potential to get called up to the bigs, the only way they can move relative to the P5 is down. Unless there is some game-changing blockbuster disruption in the force, maintaining the status quo seems to be the most realistic goal. If they can do that - which was not a sure thing at the time of their last media negotiation - then maybe they get a few more bucks for already being a tweener.

Well there is a way to move up---thats the part that takes years. And in reality, its more like decades. The path to moving up is simply for each member school to cultivate its own fanbase and grow the overall number of conference followers. If the AAC has an average attendence of 40-50K in a 10 to 20 years---it will essentially become a power conference because the audience is too big to ignore. For the AAC to reach those numbers, you can assume that Tulsa and Tulane are not greatly improved. They probably are still 30K-ish at best. The key is to develop several teams with 60-65K attendance numbers and have the majority to hover around or just over 40K. That means SMU has to gain traction in Dallas while Temple does the same in Phillie. Schools like ECU, UCF, and USF have to continue to grow and reach their potential. Then, while all this is happening, you need for no major asset to be poached....and even if all that happens....like I said---it could take a decade or even multiple decades before we see it.

The problem for the conference, which is what "P6" is all about, is that it's hard to imagine that gains made by its individual members won't result in poaching. For half the conference, you almost have to be rooting for the better teams to stay where they are in terms of their attractiveness to the power conferences. Then, gains made by the weaker programs can marginally improve the value of the conference to potential media partners.

And I don't know about you. But I don't have decades left to see this through.
10-10-2017 04:35 PM
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JHS55 Online
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Post: #86
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
Will there become a day that the 5 nonplayoff conference teams start scheduling more within these conferences I keep hearing that the 5 playoff conferences want to play more games with themselves
Will this make it even harder to get a top 25 rank
10-10-2017 04:53 PM
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Post: #87
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-09-2017 04:50 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 12:20 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  AAC West Division might be better than the SEC East or the Big 10 West this year.

Sagarin puts the West below both, estimating that the difference between them and the SEC East is about as large as the difference between the SEC West and ACC Coastal.

http://sagarin.com/sports/cfsend.htm

(10-09-2017 12:37 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The MWC tried the same scheme as the 7th AQ conference and they had a better trio at the top than the AAC. How did the cartel respond? By taking Utah and TCU and opening the door for BYU to go independent. Schools get promoted, not entire conferences. Look at the MWC and the Big East/AAC being demoted to G5 status.

This is what the AAC fanboys do not understand. I give the conference all the credit in the world for pushing to be the best and improve their lot, but anyone who thinks the cartel will see you as equals and eventually give you an auto-bid is delusional. If your goal is to expand your media deals and change your national perception then have at it, but the big boys and sports media will always see you as the little brother - does any UC fan think OSU will see them as legit competition, or Texas with UH, or UF/FSU with UCF/USF? And if you're trying to the G5 NY6 bid into a de facto AAC slot then have at it, but college football has too much parity to turn the last point into reality imo. We're not even a year removed from Western freaking Michigan from playing in the Cotton Bowl.

I'm sure FSU thinks of us as legit competition.
10-10-2017 05:09 PM
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Post: #88
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 03:59 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:40 AM)lance99 Wrote:  The problem is twofold: The first one is that the AAC has the exact same problem that the Big east(Pre-Split) did: It was propped up by it's Basketball. Without that, you would be just another Conference.

The second one is Ego. There is no secret that 10 of the 12 (at the time) Schools reached out to the Big XII. If I am apart of the Brass at Tulsa, I do not trust the other Schools at all(I firmly believe that them and Navy were the only Two that did not even try. Navy would have go back to be Independent and Tulsa was just Screwed). Your Conference would have hung them out to dry like C-USA did to Southern Miss when everyone Bolted.

There was a reason that even the Basketball Conferences were laughing at you on this site last Bowl Season. I understand that you are trying to Market yourselves better. I get that, I really do. However the arrogance will haunt you in the end and all you will get is voicemails and no response.......

I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.

Every school in the eastern half of the country recruits Florida heavily. Last year the ACC pulled the most recruits from Florida and the Big 10 was very close behind #2 SEC. The idea of expanding recruiting presence in Florida is very overrated.
10-10-2017 07:06 PM
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Post: #89
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 04:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:37 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

How is it going to take years to achieve? It sure looks like the AAC is already a tweener conference. By nearly every measure, there is already separation between them and the #7 conference, the MWC.

The problem the AAC has is that there really isn't any path for them to reach parity with the top five conferences. Nobody is going to move down from those conferences voluntarily, and there aren't any G5 teams they could add that would move them up in stature. All they could hope for with expansion is further separation from the MWC.

And because they have the most brands who have the potential to get called up to the bigs, the only way they can move relative to the P5 is down. Unless there is some game-changing blockbuster disruption in the force, maintaining the status quo seems to be the most realistic goal. If they can do that - which was not a sure thing at the time of their last media negotiation - then maybe they get a few more bucks for already being a tweener.

Well there is a way to move up---thats the part that takes years. And in reality, its more like decades. The path to moving up is simply for each member school to cultivate its own fanbase and grow the overall number of conference followers. If the AAC has an average attendence of 40-50K in a 10 to 20 years---it will essentially become a power conference because the audience is too big to ignore. For the AAC to reach those numbers, you can assume that Tulsa and Tulane are not greatly improved. They probably are still 30K-ish at best. The key is to develop several teams with 60-65K attendance numbers and have the majority to hover around or just over 40K. That means SMU has to gain traction in Dallas while Temple does the same in Phillie. Schools like ECU, UCF, and USF have to continue to grow and reach their potential. Then, while all this is happening, you need for no major asset to be poached....and even if all that happens....like I said---it could take a decade or even multiple decades before we see it.

The problem for the conference, which is what "P6" is all about, is that it's hard to imagine that gains made by its individual members won't result in poaching. For half the conference, you almost have to be rooting for the better teams to stay where they are in terms of their attractiveness to the power conferences. Then, gains made by the weaker programs can marginally improve the value of the conference to potential media partners.

And I don't know about you. But I don't have decades left to see this through.

#1) be good at basketball and keep a high profile there;
#2) get a couple of teams who are regulars in the top 25, preferably top 15.
#3) have a mix of other schools populate the top 25 and try to keep 3 up there.
#4) do this for 10-15 years.

The ACC was a tweener conference in football, comparable to the WAC in the 70s and early 80s. Then they had several schools get more serious about football. About that time FSU joined.
10-10-2017 07:10 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #90
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 07:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 04:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:37 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

How is it going to take years to achieve? It sure looks like the AAC is already a tweener conference. By nearly every measure, there is already separation between them and the #7 conference, the MWC.

The problem the AAC has is that there really isn't any path for them to reach parity with the top five conferences. Nobody is going to move down from those conferences voluntarily, and there aren't any G5 teams they could add that would move them up in stature. All they could hope for with expansion is further separation from the MWC.

And because they have the most brands who have the potential to get called up to the bigs, the only way they can move relative to the P5 is down. Unless there is some game-changing blockbuster disruption in the force, maintaining the status quo seems to be the most realistic goal. If they can do that - which was not a sure thing at the time of their last media negotiation - then maybe they get a few more bucks for already being a tweener.

Well there is a way to move up---thats the part that takes years. And in reality, its more like decades. The path to moving up is simply for each member school to cultivate its own fanbase and grow the overall number of conference followers. If the AAC has an average attendence of 40-50K in a 10 to 20 years---it will essentially become a power conference because the audience is too big to ignore. For the AAC to reach those numbers, you can assume that Tulsa and Tulane are not greatly improved. They probably are still 30K-ish at best. The key is to develop several teams with 60-65K attendance numbers and have the majority to hover around or just over 40K. That means SMU has to gain traction in Dallas while Temple does the same in Phillie. Schools like ECU, UCF, and USF have to continue to grow and reach their potential. Then, while all this is happening, you need for no major asset to be poached....and even if all that happens....like I said---it could take a decade or even multiple decades before we see it.

The problem for the conference, which is what "P6" is all about, is that it's hard to imagine that gains made by its individual members won't result in poaching. For half the conference, you almost have to be rooting for the better teams to stay where they are in terms of their attractiveness to the power conferences. Then, gains made by the weaker programs can marginally improve the value of the conference to potential media partners.

And I don't know about you. But I don't have decades left to see this through.

#1) be good at basketball and keep a high profile there;
#2) get a couple of teams who are regulars in the top 25, preferably top 15.
#3) have a mix of other schools populate the top 25 and try to keep 3 up there.
#4) do this for 10-15 years.

The ACC was a tweener conference in football, comparable to the WAC in the 70s and early 80s. Then they had several schools get more serious about football. About that time FSU joined.

Thats sorta the model Im thnking of. Basically the ACC Florida schools blew up and really solidified the conference on the football side. They had all the other needed ingredients already already in place. What a aspirational G5 conference really needs is a few big attendance king pins. I think you can probably get away with 2 to 3 in the 60-65K range and a conference with an overall football average attendance of 40-45K. I think that probably gets you into the lower end threshold of what the networks would probably consider a "power" conference. Something like that is just too big to ignore. Building that kind of fan base takes time---but there are a number of AAC schools with the enrollment numbers to get there if they can get thier current students invested for the long term.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2017 07:43 PM by Attackcoog.)
10-10-2017 07:38 PM
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Post: #91
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 07:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:59 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.

Every school in the eastern half of the country recruits Florida heavily. Last year the ACC pulled the most recruits from Florida and the Big 10 was very close behind #2 SEC. The idea of expanding recruiting presence in Florida is very overrated.

For 2017, the entire Big 12 conference only had 9 Florida recruits. One of the big complaints in the WVU circles was the drop off with Florida recruiting after the move to Big 12.

For comparison sake for 2017:
Big 12 - 9
Big 10- 39
SEC- 30+
ACC 30+
PAC- 18
Needless to say, I certainly think they can use any extra recruiting sway in the Florida area that they can get. They may currently heavily recruit Florida, but their results are very underwhelming.

Big 10 breaks the trend because of unique situations I can only guess...... they were doing camps in Florida, their schools overall are much more high profile than anything else the Big 12 can offer, and like it or not........ the kids identify more with those big Northern universities, either due to family ties to the region, or simply living in Iowa isn't as enticing than living in Michigan, PA, NJ etc. Of course that is only looking into why the Big 10 broke the trend with no footprint in Florida..... but that is all hypothetical on my part.

Bottom line, the Big 12 recruits horrible in Florida compared to the other conferences. Hell, even the PAC pulled in double the recruits at double the distance. There is plenty more for the taking in Florida. Look at how well USF and UCF are doing, and that is only with G5 offerings. Scott Frost is on record loving the fact that he can drive and meet with quite a few recruits all in one day and be home for dinner, compared to the plane rides he would have to take in Oregon. So Florida has a lot more to offer.......
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2017 08:20 PM by otown.)
10-10-2017 08:15 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #92
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 08:15 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 07:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:59 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.

Every school in the eastern half of the country recruits Florida heavily. Last year the ACC pulled the most recruits from Florida and the Big 10 was very close behind #2 SEC. The idea of expanding recruiting presence in Florida is very overrated.

For 2017, the entire Big 12 conference only had 9 Florida recruits. One of the big complaints in the WVU circles was the drop off with Florida recruiting after the move to Big 12.

For comparison sake for 2017:
Big 12 - 9
Big 10- 39
SEC- 30+
ACC 30+
PAC- 18
Needless to say, I certainly think they can use any extra recruiting sway in the Florida area that they can get. They may currently heavily recruit Florida, but their results are very underwhelming.

Big 10 breaks the trend because of unique situations I can only guess...... they were doing camps in Florida, their schools overall are much more high profile than anything else the Big 12 can offer, and like it or not........ the kids identify more with those big Northern universities, either due to family ties to the region, or simply living in Iowa isn't as enticing than living in Michigan, PA, NJ etc. Of course that is only looking into why the Big 10 broke the trend with no footprint in Florida..... but that is all hypothetical on my part.

Bottom line, the Big 12 recruits horrible in Florida compared to the other conferences. Hell, even the PAC pulled in double the recruits at double the distance. There is plenty more for the taking in Florida. Look at how well USF and UCF are doing, and that is only with G5 offerings. Scott Frost is on record loving the fact that he can drive and meet with quite a few recruits all in one day and be home for dinner, compared to the plane rides he would have to take in Oregon. So Florida has a lot more to offer.......

Why would a Big XII school especially one that is in Texas recruit in Florida when they have the Great State of Texas at their disposal? DFW and Houston are arguably the two most fertile recruiting areas in the most important football state in the nation. Yes, having an extra kid from Florida doesn't hurt just like getting a recruit or two from California help but it's not the end of all if you're Texas or Oklahoma. The only schools who would benefit from that would be West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas and K-State. That means more competition for recruits for the U_F and F_U twins.
10-10-2017 10:06 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #93
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 10:06 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 08:15 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 07:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:59 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.

Every school in the eastern half of the country recruits Florida heavily. Last year the ACC pulled the most recruits from Florida and the Big 10 was very close behind #2 SEC. The idea of expanding recruiting presence in Florida is very overrated.

For 2017, the entire Big 12 conference only had 9 Florida recruits. One of the big complaints in the WVU circles was the drop off with Florida recruiting after the move to Big 12.

For comparison sake for 2017:
Big 12 - 9
Big 10- 39
SEC- 30+
ACC 30+
PAC- 18
Needless to say, I certainly think they can use any extra recruiting sway in the Florida area that they can get. They may currently heavily recruit Florida, but their results are very underwhelming.

Big 10 breaks the trend because of unique situations I can only guess...... they were doing camps in Florida, their schools overall are much more high profile than anything else the Big 12 can offer, and like it or not........ the kids identify more with those big Northern universities, either due to family ties to the region, or simply living in Iowa isn't as enticing than living in Michigan, PA, NJ etc. Of course that is only looking into why the Big 10 broke the trend with no footprint in Florida..... but that is all hypothetical on my part.

Bottom line, the Big 12 recruits horrible in Florida compared to the other conferences. Hell, even the PAC pulled in double the recruits at double the distance. There is plenty more for the taking in Florida. Look at how well USF and UCF are doing, and that is only with G5 offerings. Scott Frost is on record loving the fact that he can drive and meet with quite a few recruits all in one day and be home for dinner, compared to the plane rides he would have to take in Oregon. So Florida has a lot more to offer.......

Why would a Big XII school especially one that is in Texas recruit in Florida when they have the Great State of Texas at their disposal? DFW and Houston are arguably the two most fertile recruiting areas in the most important football state in the nation. Yes, having an extra kid from Florida doesn't hurt just like getting a recruit or two from California help but it's not the end of all if you're Texas or Oklahoma. The only schools who would benefit from that would be West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas and K-State. That means more competition for recruits for the U_F and F_U twins.

Correct. However, I am sure the big ones wouldn't mind having that extra area of recruiting.......and I'm sure as hell the USF and UCF would not call about any Florida competition for recruits if it meant going into the big 12. In fact, the only real people who would be pissed would be FSU, Miami, and UF. More local competition for them, by USF and UCF, as well as dealing withother Big 12 schools lurking in their backyard.
10-11-2017 04:47 AM
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ken d Online
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Post: #94
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:40 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

The problem is twofold: The first one is that the AAC has the exact same problem that the Big east(Pre-Split) did: It was propped up by it's Basketball. Without that, you would be just another Conference.

The second one is Ego. There is no secret that 10 of the 12 (at the time) Schools reached out to the Big XII. If I am apart of the Brass at Tulsa, I do not trust the other Schools at all(I firmly believe that them and Navy were the only Two that did not even try. Navy would have go back to be Independent and Tulsa was just Screwed). Your Conference would have hung them out to dry like C-USA did to Southern Miss when everyone Bolted.

There was a reason that even the Basketball Conferences were laughing at you on this site last Bowl Season. I understand that you are trying to Market yourselves better. I get that, I really do. However the arrogance will haunt you in the end and all you will get is voicemails and no response.......

I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

What you say is true. But wasn't it just as true a year ago when the Big 12 decided not to expand? So, what is the missing piece of the puzzle that led the Big 12 to their decision?
10-11-2017 07:56 AM
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otown Offline
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Post: #95
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-11-2017 07:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:40 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

The problem is twofold: The first one is that the AAC has the exact same problem that the Big east(Pre-Split) did: It was propped up by it's Basketball. Without that, you would be just another Conference.

The second one is Ego. There is no secret that 10 of the 12 (at the time) Schools reached out to the Big XII. If I am apart of the Brass at Tulsa, I do not trust the other Schools at all(I firmly believe that them and Navy were the only Two that did not even try. Navy would have go back to be Independent and Tulsa was just Screwed). Your Conference would have hung them out to dry like C-USA did to Southern Miss when everyone Bolted.

There was a reason that even the Basketball Conferences were laughing at you on this site last Bowl Season. I understand that you are trying to Market yourselves better. I get that, I really do. However the arrogance will haunt you in the end and all you will get is voicemails and no response.......

I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

What you say is true. But wasn't it just as true a year ago when the Big 12 decided not to expand? So, what is the missing piece of the puzzle that led the Big 12 to their decision?

Missing piece is the media partners. They were more content with status quo, at least for the time being. So much has changed in the past 6 years, and I expect equal amount of change in the next 6. If it made economic sense for their media partner to add the state of Florida "at that time" and they requested it, I don't think Texas or Oklahoma would have been able to stop it.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2017 08:21 AM by otown.)
10-11-2017 08:20 AM
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