(10-10-2017 12:10 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 08:47 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Denying life is a l i t t l e bit more sanctimonious. And selfish. And evil. Etc....

****** up world were people think murdering children is no big deal.

Murdering children is OF COURSE a big deal. But the majority of our society as well as the SCOTUS doesn't see it your way that these are "children". Nor do they see it as murder, legally or otherwise.

And neither I nor anyone I know wants to see any abortions take place. But that's just not the reality of the situation. We can only control what we do personally.

No, actually the majority of society does see them as children and believe abortion should be severely restricted to certain cases.

(10-06-2017 05:46 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  HIPPA laws....... enough said. You have zero right to tell someone how to live their lives. This is a decision between a Dr and the family. Only God can judge. Not you! 1 out of 4 pregnancies have some type of chromosomal issue. Most of these are miscarried.

What part of HIPPA applies here?

(10-10-2017 08:08 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We are a land of laws. Not sanctimonious know it alls. People who think they KNOW better than the family actually having the child. These people want to tell others how to live their lives. It's the ULTIMATE NANNY STATE! You guys are a collection of conflicting ideologies.

Well you are giving people the right to end other people's lives when those people have done nothing wrong.

Its about 9 months, not their whole lives. There is a choice. Its called adoption.

(10-10-2017 01:00 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 12:10 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 08:47 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Denying life is a l i t t l e bit more sanctimonious. And selfish. And evil. Etc....

****** up world were people think murdering children is no big deal.

Murdering children is OF COURSE a big deal. But the majority of our society as well as the SCOTUS doesn't see it your way that these are "children". Nor do they see it as murder, legally or otherwise.

And neither I nor anyone I know wants to see any abortions take place. But that's just not the reality of the situation. We can only control what we do personally.

No, actually the majority of society does see them as children and believe abortion should be severely restricted to certain cases.

Not according to this.

Quote:As of 2017, public support for legal abortion remains as high as it has been in two decades of polling. Currently, 57% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 40% say it should be illegal in all or most cases.

http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/publi...-abortion/

What is your source?

Thanks.

(10-10-2017 01:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 08:08 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  We are a land of laws. Not sanctimonious know it alls. People who think they KNOW better than the family actually having the child. These people want to tell others how to live their lives. It's the ULTIMATE NANNY STATE! You guys are a collection of conflicting ideologies.

Well you are giving people the right to end other people's lives when those people have done nothing wrong.

Its about 9 months, not their whole lives. There is a choice. Its called adoption.

There is another choice prior to that. It's called "control yourself."

The abortion industry/ PP is disgusting. However they are aborting, the vast majority, future Dem voters and criminals.

(10-10-2017 01:47 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  The abortion industry/ PP is disgusting. However they are aborting, the vast majority, future Dem voters and criminals.

Right...rich white women don't get abortions.

(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:47 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  The abortion industry/ PP is disgusting. However they are aborting, the vast majority, future Dem voters and criminals.

Right...rich white women don't get abortions.

85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:47 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  The abortion industry/ PP is disgusting. However they are aborting, the vast majority, future Dem voters and criminals.

Right...rich white women don't get abortions.

85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:47 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  The abortion industry/ PP is disgusting. However they are aborting, the vast majority, future Dem voters and criminals.

Right...rich white women don't get abortions.

85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

That's the funny thing about all this. What the average lib/dem says is we on the right/libertarians are just a bunch of racist pigs who want to deny black people and liberal youth their casual no-fault sex culture by coercing them to not have sex for fear of getting pregnant with no legal on-demand abortion available. The truth of it is, we are saying stop killing all of your probably eventual liberal voters. If that doesn't testify to our sincerity, I don't know what would.

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:47 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  The abortion industry/ PP is disgusting. However they are aborting, the vast majority, future Dem voters and criminals.

Right...rich white women don't get abortions.

85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

No, it isn't/wasn't. Read a little more...and from a source not as biased as the FRC is.

Quote:But on to the truth about Margaret Sanger.

Sanger was pro-birth control and anti-abortion. This may surprise you, considering that Planned Parenthood opponents frequently accuse Sanger of erecting abortion clinics in Black neighborhoods, a practice they claim the organization continues to this day.

But this is simply not true.

Sanger opposed abortion. She believed it to be a barbaric practice. In her own words, “[a]lthough abortion may be resorted to in order to save the life of the mother, the practice of it merely for limitation of offspring is dangerous and vicious.” Her views are, ironically, in keeping with the views of many of the anti-choicers who malign and distort her legacy.

In fact, Planned Parenthood did not even begin performing abortions until after 1973, when the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in Roe v. Wade legalized the practice. Margaret Sanger had been dead for four years by then. And currently, less than 4 percent of Planned Parenthood clinics that offer abortion services are located in communities where more than one-third of the population is Black, according to a recent analysis conducted by Planned Parenthood that Alencia Johnson, assistant director of constituency communications at Planned Parenthood, shared with me via email. A broader analysis conducted by the Guttmacher Institute in 2011 based on data available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that fewer than one in ten abortion providers overall are located in neighborhoods where more than half of residents are Black. It is simply false that Planned Parenthood is targeting Black women by setting up clinics primarily in Black neighborhoods.

How False Narratives of Margaret Sanger Are Being Used to Shame Black Women

(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:47 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  The abortion industry/ PP is disgusting. However they are aborting, the vast majority, future Dem voters and criminals.

Right...rich white women don't get abortions.

85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

That's the funny thing about all this. What the average lib/dem says is we on the right/libertarians are just a bunch of racist pigs who want to deny black people and liberal youth their casual no-fault sex culture by coercing them to not have sex for fear of getting pregnant with no legal on-demand abortion available. The truth of it is, we are saying stop killing all of your probably eventual liberal voters. If that doesn't testify to our sincerity, I don't know what would.

Exactly right.

First, they point the "you're racist" finger at conservatives while their core beliefs and actions are steeped in racism.

Second, conservatives are aware that by drastically decreasing the number of abortions more Democrats will end up on voter roles. But that's OK because we're more concerned about the value of human life than how Americans lean in polls.

(10-10-2017 03:38 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Right...rich white women don't get abortions.

85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

That's the funny thing about all this. What the average lib/dem says is we on the right/libertarians are just a bunch of racist pigs who want to deny black people and liberal youth their casual no-fault sex culture by coercing them to not have sex for fear of getting pregnant with no legal on-demand abortion available. The truth of it is, we are saying stop killing all of your probably eventual liberal voters. If that doesn't testify to our sincerity, I don't know what would.

Exactly right.

First, they point the "you're racist" finger at conservatives while their core beliefs and actions are steeped in racism.

Second, conservatives are aware that by drastically decreasing the number of abortions more Democrats will end up on voter roles. But that's OK because we're more concerned about the value of human life than how Americans lean in polls.

I see you're still acting under the false impression that any liberal wants abortions to occur. We don't. What we don't want is the government telling women what to do with their bodies. Period.

(10-10-2017 03:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:38 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

That's the funny thing about all this. What the average lib/dem says is we on the right/libertarians are just a bunch of racist pigs who want to deny black people and liberal youth their casual no-fault sex culture by coercing them to not have sex for fear of getting pregnant with no legal on-demand abortion available. The truth of it is, we are saying stop killing all of your probably eventual liberal voters. If that doesn't testify to our sincerity, I don't know what would.

Exactly right.

First, they point the "you're racist" finger at conservatives while their core beliefs and actions are steeped in racism.

Second, conservatives are aware that by drastically decreasing the number of abortions more Democrats will end up on voter roles. But that's OK because we're more concerned about the value of human life than how Americans lean in polls.

I see you're still acting under the false impression that any liberal wants abortions to occur. We don't. What we don't want is the government telling women what to do with their bodies. Period.

We don't care about the woman's body. We care about the baby's body. Why is that so hard to understand.

(10-10-2017 03:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:38 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

That's the funny thing about all this. What the average lib/dem says is we on the right/libertarians are just a bunch of racist pigs who want to deny black people and liberal youth their casual no-fault sex culture by coercing them to not have sex for fear of getting pregnant with no legal on-demand abortion available. The truth of it is, we are saying stop killing all of your probably eventual liberal voters. If that doesn't testify to our sincerity, I don't know what would.

Exactly right.

First, they point the "you're racist" finger at conservatives while their core beliefs and actions are steeped in racism.

Second, conservatives are aware that by drastically decreasing the number of abortions more Democrats will end up on voter roles. But that's OK because we're more concerned about the value of human life than how Americans lean in polls.

I see you're still acting under the false impression that any liberal wants abortions to occur. We don't. What we don't want is the government telling women what to do with their bodies. Period.

Do you want the government to NOT be able to tell women they can't kill themselves and take out their children with them at the same time?

Can women do drugs while pregnant with their own bodies?

Should women be able to prostitute their own bodies?

I'm wondering where you draw the line at what women can and cannot do with their own bodies.


How consistent are you when it comes to men?

Should the government be able to tell men what to do with their bodies?


And children... should the government be able to force a child to be immunized?

(10-10-2017 03:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:38 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

That's the funny thing about all this. What the average lib/dem says is we on the right/libertarians are just a bunch of racist pigs who want to deny black people and liberal youth their casual no-fault sex culture by coercing them to not have sex for fear of getting pregnant with no legal on-demand abortion available. The truth of it is, we are saying stop killing all of your probably eventual liberal voters. If that doesn't testify to our sincerity, I don't know what would.

Exactly right.

First, they point the "you're racist" finger at conservatives while their core beliefs and actions are steeped in racism.

Second, conservatives are aware that by drastically decreasing the number of abortions more Democrats will end up on voter roles. But that's OK because we're more concerned about the value of human life than how Americans lean in polls.

I see you're still acting under the false impression that any liberal wants abortions to occur. We don't. What we don't want is the government telling women what to do with their bodies. Period.

So if a women is sticking a needle into her stomach trying to kill her baby that is OK?

(10-10-2017 03:24 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:03 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:47 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  The abortion industry/ PP is disgusting. However they are aborting, the vast majority, future Dem voters and criminals.

Right...rich white women don't get abortions.

85% are unmarried, Black women 4 times more likely, and hispanics 2 times more likely than WW to have an abortion. Hell 38% of all pregnancies in NYC end in abortion.
There are more aborted black babies in NYC than love births. Most abortions are women with wages under the poverty line.

Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

No, it isn't/wasn't. Read a little more...and from a source not as biased as the FRC is.

Quote:But on to the truth about Margaret Sanger.

Sanger was pro-birth control and anti-abortion. This may surprise you, considering that Planned Parenthood opponents frequently accuse Sanger of erecting abortion clinics in Black neighborhoods, a practice they claim the organization continues to this day.

But this is simply not true.

Sanger opposed abortion. She believed it to be a barbaric practice. In her own words, “[a]lthough abortion may be resorted to in order to save the life of the mother, the practice of it merely for limitation of offspring is dangerous and vicious.” Her views are, ironically, in keeping with the views of many of the anti-choicers who malign and distort her legacy.

In fact, Planned Parenthood did not even begin performing abortions until after 1973, when the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in Roe v. Wade legalized the practice. Margaret Sanger had been dead for four years by then. And currently, less than 4 percent of Planned Parenthood clinics that offer abortion services are located in communities where more than one-third of the population is Black, according to a recent analysis conducted by Planned Parenthood that Alencia Johnson, assistant director of constituency communications at Planned Parenthood, shared with me via email. A broader analysis conducted by the Guttmacher Institute in 2011 based on data available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that fewer than one in ten abortion providers overall are located in neighborhoods where more than half of residents are Black. It is simply false that Planned Parenthood is targeting Black women by setting up clinics primarily in Black neighborhoods.

How False Narratives of Margaret Sanger Are Being Used to Shame Black Women

From the article you linked:

Quote:It is true that Sanger was a proponent of eugenics, and pro-choice advocates do themselves no favors by attempting to whitewash this fact and paint Sanger as some infallible feminist hero. Sanger was passionate about contraception—perhaps to a fault—and her fervor about promoting her birth control agenda led her to align herself with eugenicists, along with racists and an assortment of people of questionable character.

They attempt to explain away her ties to eugenics suggesting she "partnered" with them solely for birth control issues while not advocating their inherent racism.

That is the modern narrative in an attempt to rewrite history. Planned Parenthood pushes it.

BTW, interesting that you discredit FRC but are OK with a source tied to the UN.

Food for thought... in 2010 79% of PP surgical abortion facilities -- 79% or 8 out of 10 -- are located within walking distance of AA or Latino communities.

Planned Parenthood Targets Minority Neighborhoods

(10-10-2017 04:00 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:38 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 02:50 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  Margaret Sanger was a firm believer in eugenics -- master race. That was the reason behind placing abortionists in specific neighborhoods.

Interesting read: The Real Margaret Sanger

That's the funny thing about all this. What the average lib/dem says is we on the right/libertarians are just a bunch of racist pigs who want to deny black people and liberal youth their casual no-fault sex culture by coercing them to not have sex for fear of getting pregnant with no legal on-demand abortion available. The truth of it is, we are saying stop killing all of your probably eventual liberal voters. If that doesn't testify to our sincerity, I don't know what would.

Exactly right.

First, they point the "you're racist" finger at conservatives while their core beliefs and actions are steeped in racism.

Second, conservatives are aware that by drastically decreasing the number of abortions more Democrats will end up on voter roles. But that's OK because we're more concerned about the value of human life than how Americans lean in polls.

I see you're still acting under the false impression that any liberal wants abortions to occur. We don't. What we don't want is the government telling women what to do with their bodies. Period.

We don't care about the woman's body. We care about the baby's body. Why is that so hard to understand.

I get totally that you care for it. I just wish you all cared for it as much as you do once it left the womb. You know, like where's all your outrage at trump and the R's for not renewing CHIP?

And yes, I care for it too. The problem is that I don't get to make choices for it and neither should the government.

Again, you guys really need to drop all these moronic hypothetical questions. It does nothing to further any debate and it makes you look weak, confused and just flailing. I don't need to stop and explain every possible act someone could preform and present my opinion on it. Nobody asks that of you for anything. Use some common sense. So just stop please. Thanks.

(10-11-2017 09:06 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 04:00 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:38 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:23 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  That's the funny thing about all this. What the average lib/dem says is we on the right/libertarians are just a bunch of racist pigs who want to deny black people and liberal youth their casual no-fault sex culture by coercing them to not have sex for fear of getting pregnant with no legal on-demand abortion available. The truth of it is, we are saying stop killing all of your probably eventual liberal voters. If that doesn't testify to our sincerity, I don't know what would.

Exactly right.

First, they point the "you're racist" finger at conservatives while their core beliefs and actions are steeped in racism.

Second, conservatives are aware that by drastically decreasing the number of abortions more Democrats will end up on voter roles. But that's OK because we're more concerned about the value of human life than how Americans lean in polls.

I see you're still acting under the false impression that any liberal wants abortions to occur. We don't. What we don't want is the government telling women what to do with their bodies. Period.

We don't care about the woman's body. We care about the baby's body. Why is that so hard to understand.

I get totally that you care for it. I just wish you all cared for it as much as you do once it left the womb. You know, like where's all your outrage at trump and the R's for not renewing CHIP?

And yes, I care for it too. The problem is that I don't get to make choices for it and neither should the government.

Sweeping generalizations. Nice strategy that means absolutely nothing.

Curious... do you know the demographic breakdown of people who adopt? Do you happen to know the breakdown of who runs homes for children?

You really don't think hospital staff simply place unwanted babies out on the loading dock once they're able to leave the hospital, do ya?


BTW, my sister and her husband (Christians, btw) have adopted two children. My wife and I took in her two young nephews, brothers, whose parents were basically worthless. Dad went to prison when the youngest one was 6 months old. Mom was a druggie and satanist. Her two boys were in and out of foster care in upstate NY for years. When we finally tracked the down, we talked to her and asked her to do what was best for the boys.


Generic talking points don't fly with me.