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pembroke1246 Offline
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Post: #1
Football thoughts
I'd just like to make a few comments before I exit this forum.

As I mentioned in my first post (and this is my last), I've been a K.S.U. athletic fan
for almost 40 years.

I'm not a Paul Haynes fan, a Darrell Hazell fan, a Doug Martin fan, or a Dean Pees fan - I'm a Kent State fan. I like to think I've supported all the coaches and their programs over the years (actually I was a fan of all these coaches - especially Doug Martin).

I've rarely criticized the coaching staffs of any of the sports.

In order to build a true football program at Kent State, continuity in the coaching staff is required.

I've seen no substantial difference in coaching philosophy over the years I have followed the football program between all of the coaches. Pees, Corrigall, Mason, Blackledge, Hazell, Martin, Haynes (and more - I'll exclude Cordelli), they all preached good recruiting, hard work, and more hard work. I doubt that any single one of these individuals knows more about football than any other. I doubt that Bo Pelini knows more about football than Paul Haynes (and vice-versa). I doubt that Nick Saban knows more about football than any of the above mentioned coaches either.

I recently saw a comment about Dick Crum. I went out to wikipedia and read his resume and coaching history. It's hard for me to believe after what he accomplished at other schools throughout his career that he was a bad coach.

High school players do not want to come to Kent State to play football. They don't want to ride a bus out to the stadium, and they certainly don't want to play for a program with such a losing tradition. A football team requires dozens of players - not just one or two star players. They don't want to commit to a school where the coaching staff changes every year and the head coach is rumored to be let go every second or third year.

Over the years I have proposed hiring our football coach to a life-time contract. I've also proposed that we drop down a division in N.C.A.A. I would like to see one of these two things happen but I don't think either will.

So what are we going to do next? Oh, let me guess. Hire another coach.
10-03-2017 09:55 AM
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Slinkin Street Flash Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Football thoughts
(10-03-2017 09:55 AM)pembroke1246 Wrote:  <snip>
High school players do not want to come to Kent State to play football. They don't want to ride a bus out to the stadium, and they certainly don't want to play for a program with such a losing tradition. A football team requires dozens of players - not just one or two star players. They don't want to commit to a school where the coaching staff changes every year and the head coach is rumored to be let go every second or third year.
<snip>

Yes, and looking at it from the other side - if I'm a very good high school football player from Northeast Ohio, what are my options? If a Big 10 scholarship comes my way, I take it. If another P5 team (like Pittsburgh or Cincinnati) offers, I take it. If I get several MAC offers, if football is bigger to me than my education, any other MAC school would trump Kent State, based on history (I almost wrote 'recent history', but long term history as well).

If I just get a Kent State offer, what are my other options? Youngstown State is just down the road, and while they're FCS, they complete for FCS championships. Would I rather complete for a FCS championship or sign on to lose frequently in FBS? If I can pay my own way, would Mount Union be a better option than losing frequently in FBS? And if not Mount Union, there's a bunch of Division III schools in Ohio that play good Division III football.

I think the players Kent State gets are either 1) "I want to play FBS and this is my only option" or 2) "I want to go to school at Kent State, and hey, I played well enough in HS that they're going to give me a football scholarship"
10-03-2017 10:46 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Football thoughts
Pembroke, I had mentioned Dick Crum. Yes, he had been a successful coach, but his last four years at North Carolina were barely over .500 and he was 54 years old.
10-03-2017 11:29 AM
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pembroke1246 Offline
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RE: Football thoughts
I apologize. I omitted a couple of comments from my previous post and have to now respond to the Dick Crum response (and I'm no Dick Crum fan).

I also saw a comment recently suggesting that the players and coaches weren't trying to win. I find this to be ridiculous. From what I've seen, the players we have are tying harder than their opponents - they're not as talented, as big or as athletic, and weren't 3, 4 or 5 star recruits - they have to try harder just to compete!

I imagine it was just the play calling by the lame-brained coaches who cost us these games. Or maybe Alabama, Louisville, and Marshall have better practices and athletic facilities?

From what I saw of the Buffalo game (and I was there for the entire game), we lost because of 3 plays. A blocked punt, a failed quarterback sneak, and a personal foul penalty. I do believe we were trying to win. I can't imagine these guys were trying to do anything else.

The Dick Crum comment is another example of "What to watch out for! Make sure you get the right guy next time!"

Don't get a coach over 50 years old! What?

Nick Saban is 66. Wouldn't want him. Bo Pelini is 50. I guess 53 is cut off. Urban
Meyer seems to have no problem winning at THE Ohio State University - and he's 53 (perhaps he just makes the cut). Les Miles is 63 - he must have lost all his coaching ability over the past few years. I'm kinda thinking a lot of L.S.U. fans would like to have him back right now.

There are more wins on the schedule this year with the coaches and players we have. I don't like the losing either but time after time it seems all we do is blame the coaches and / or referees.
10-03-2017 01:00 PM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Football thoughts
Pembroke - you have raised a lot of great points and raised an excellent question about KSUs future direction. I have been a fan for almost 50 years - and when I was a student Dix stadium was at least as nice or better than most in the MAC. That's not true today - even BG (stadium same age as Dix) has made major upgrades. So the stadium issue is likely real (although in hoops we have overcome our facility). Akron's new stadium has as yet to yield a exceptional team. I find your point about recruiting a good one. Neither Akron nor Kent are likely to recruit locally against the Big 10 or other major conferences. One could argue the last coach with success using local kids was Don James. I had mentioned in the past that Ohio's demographics also work against us - I was shocked to hear during the last hurricane that Florida has 20 million people - no wonder it's a recruiting hot bed. Maybe there's just not enough local talent for all of the D I programs in NE Ohio, western PA and WV. I still am baffled that NIU and UT can sustain nice programs - despite losing coaches to bigger schools. Is it tradition or is it that they are in better places to recruit? I can remember at one time when NIU was terrible! I guess in the end I have no answer with regards to how Kent should proceed - I do agree that I don't think the kids have quit - as you say. But we do lack size and speed and those things can't be taught. I do not think that our OC has the imagination to make the games interesting.
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 01:30 PM by OLNWFLSH.)
10-03-2017 01:27 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Football thoughts
What I meant to point out was that Crum was 54 AND his teams' records had been down his last four years at Carolina (.512) compared to his career prior to his last four (52 more wins than losses in 10 years). That should have been a red flag that he may be going downhill. His record at Kent State would indicate that that was the case.
10-03-2017 01:51 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Football thoughts
(10-03-2017 01:51 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  What I meant to point out was that Crum was 54 AND his teams' records had been down his last four years at Carolina (.512) compared to his career prior to his last four (52 more wins than losses in 10 years). That should have been a red flag that he may be going downhill. His record at Kent State would indicate that that was the case.

I think the coach to look at is MARTIN ... why ... because he finally found the right blend/kind of talent to make his gameplan work ... and while it took I think seven years ... I think had Kent stuck with him the team would be more consistently competitive.

Would Kent have won with Martin like they did in 2012 ... doubt it. But would the foundation be pretty solid right now ... I think so.

As for Crum ... his blueprint was sound. That staff he put together was pretty impressive, and without doing a hard check would believe at least half of them are still coaching making pretty good dough ... a couple are/were in the NFL.

He redshirt his entire first freshman class ... and the year he was fired I believe the team won its last two or three games.

Then the Cordelli disaster followed and really, the program has not been much good since.

Now to the present ...

The offense is ( ... fill in the blank ....) and no doubt about it. The talent level overall is average, but MAC competitive. What helps programs make the jump is stability.

The easy choice is to fire the coach (and yes, the record indicates that's the choice). But the tougher choice is to (1) show some allegiance and stay the course a bit longer (2) make some moves the coach probably won't -- exit OC and (3) make it clear the coach is being judged on his MAC performances.

While not much has been said of it ... on some level throughout all of Kent's coaching regimes, not just Haynes ... the university has scheduled for failure, not success ... even in 2012, if the previous Rutgers coach had not bolted, doubtful Kent wins that game against a T25 team.

In summation, the easiest thing to do is to be Kent State (let's fire the coach and start all over) ...

The tougher thing is to try and figure out another way
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 07:20 PM by cleveland.)
10-03-2017 06:31 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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RE: Football thoughts
The only "other way" is for whomever the coach is and his staff are to recruit classes year after year that are good enough. That's the bottom line. I'm sure EVERY coach that his been there, and I've watched them since Trevor Rees, knew the game and could pretty much maximize the talent on hand. Some more than others, sure. Kent State has ALWAYS had a handful of players as good as any in the league, many of whom played in the NFL. But, if you look at the quality of the entire depth chart, in all but a small handful of years going back 40 years, the talent was much closer to the bottom than to the top of the MAC.
10-03-2017 07:05 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Football thoughts
In Haynes defense, the injuries his teams have been hit with are pretty absurd. This is the second straight year we started MAC play on our third string QB. That's going to be tough for any team let alone a team that isn't a recruiting destination. I'd bet we're near the bottom of the MAC in terms of depth and probably near the top in terms of needing to lean on that depth.
10-03-2017 07:24 PM
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BuckeyeFlyerFlash Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Football thoughts
Coaching Record
Year School G W L T Pct SRS SOS AP Pre AP High AP Post Bowl Notes
2013 Kent State 12 4 8 0 .333 -9.60 -4.02
2014 Kent State 11 2 9 0 .182 -13.04 -4.58
2015 Kent State 12 3 9 0 .250 -11.29 -1.96
2016 Kent State 12 3 9 0 .250 -9.12 -3.20
2017 Kent State 5 1 4 0 .200 -9.72 5.48
5 Yrs Kent State 52 13 39 0 .250 -10.55 -1.66 0-0

This was lifted from sports records.com...Respectfully to all here- as I am a "newbie" to this forum- to use a marketing tag from the university- "excellence in Action"- are we striving for excellence or even "competitiveness" when you look at the above results from Paul Haynes...

Does this make you want to
a) change out the HC (or OC)?
b) stay the course for 1 more year (Haynes contract up 2017 or 2018? don't know answer)
c) hope men's and women's bball season gets here quicker.....

I really enjoyed the Josh Cribbs/Julian Edelman years where being competitive in the MAC gave me a reason to drive 2+ hours to Dix stadium.... I don't see enough progress for "b" so I think "a" is my choice (and I can always support 'c"....cheers)
10-03-2017 08:46 PM
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dredaddy Offline
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RE: Football thoughts
I was thinking about realistic head coach options and landed on Al Golden. I wonder if he would be a good fit. He's coached in the MAC, did a total rebuild job at Temple, and is currently the Tight Ends coach with Detroit (meaning we might be able to get him to come over). Does anyone have an opinion?
10-04-2017 09:07 AM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Football thoughts
(10-04-2017 09:07 AM)dredaddy Wrote:  I was thinking about realistic head coach options and landed on Al Golden. I wonder if he would be a good fit. He's coached in the MAC, did a total rebuild job at Temple, and is currently the Tight Ends coach with Detroit (meaning we might be able to get him to come over). Does anyone have an opinion?


Let's think about this ...

When/if a change is made let's start with the premiss there will be a lot more bad coaches going after the job than good coaches.

Soooo there's a lot better chance Kent is going to make another bad decision than a good one.

So what will make more GOOD coaches want the job.

1. History of success ... Kent does not have it.

2. A 'sleeping giant' ... more like petrified, especially considering Akron is nearby with the same issues and the same profile (No history of success ... a proven petrofied program).

3. A hotbed for football .... yes/no --- yes for the sport, not so much for Kent/MAC level programs.

4. Administrative support? ... (I'll let others weigh in here).

5. $$$ --- Put it his way. Kent has proven it will be paying at the bottom of the barrel. Which means, if there are other comparable programs looking for a new coach, chances are the better candidates have Kent on the bottom of their list .... it Kent is listed at all.

Is Golden a good call? Yes. Will Kent pay as much for Golden as (fill in the blank) will ... I seriously doubt it.

Is the probability for success at Kent State better than it is at (fill in the blank) ... I doubt it.

The more questions you add to trying to solve this problem the more negatives than positives arise against Kent State ...


This is no longer a 1990s or even a 2010 decision. In 2017, with the program where it sits right now ... this will be uuuuge!!!
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 11:26 AM by cleveland.)
10-04-2017 11:22 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Football thoughts
Cleveland, the football situation at Kent State is very bleak. I feel for anyone trying to recruit quality talent. I think the most important quality to look for in a any new coach is the ability to recruit quality players year after year.
10-04-2017 04:14 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Football thoughts
If you're thinking current NFL positions coach with MAC ties Hazell might be more likely than Golden. No idea if he would have any interest in coming back though. He might realize he stepped into a great situation at Kent before and having been here he might not be eager to face the challenges that come with this job again. I don't know what Minnesota is paying him but from what I've seen NFL position coaches make somewhere between $150K and $400K. We're paying Haynes slightly over $400K this year so it's a safe assumption that we could pay more than what he's getting. The question is 1) how much more would it take to get him away from a low scrutiny job and 2) would he even be interested in coming back? I suppose he could probably get a better offer too if he is trying to get back into college coaching... since we're probably one of the least attractive head coaching jobs in the country.
10-04-2017 09:36 PM
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axeme Offline
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RE: Football thoughts
KSU@NIU:

I have seen this game far too many times. It’s amazing how predictable our games are.
10-07-2017 04:29 PM
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ilovegymnast Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Football thoughts
Another game where the Adams the punter is the game MVP. And another game where you show no confidence in your offense and kick a field goal. I think that sums up the game pretty well.
10-07-2017 05:03 PM
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KSU Agee Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Football thoughts
(10-07-2017 04:29 PM)axeme Wrote:  KSU@NIU:

I have seen this game far too many times. It’s amazing how predictable our games are.

So how much did NIU pay us to show up and take a beating?

Seriously though, this is sad, and you are 100% right with everything that you said.
10-07-2017 05:43 PM
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KSU Agee Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Football thoughts
I'm trying to find something positive. I guess if we had any semblance of an offense, our defense has kept us in enough games to where we would be quite competitive in every game played (with the exception of Clemson).
10-07-2017 05:47 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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RE: Football thoughts
We completed half as many passes to NIU as we did to our own players.
10-08-2017 12:13 PM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Football thoughts
The current coaching staff aside -

Why do you Flash fans think it is so hard to build a program?
10-08-2017 02:41 PM
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