RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
(10-02-2017 05:47 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:
(10-02-2017 05:37 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: Remember what used to be known as the "Protestant work ethic?"
Well, the Protestants that created it didn't come from any other place than Europe.
I'm a Catholic and the "protestant work ethic" bit used to offend me. Until I thought about it and realized that it's true.
Most other Catholics I know who achieve financial success will use that success to get more leisure time and to raise a strong family. But most Protestants I know will continue to work hard to accumulate wealth and possessions. That's how our country was built.
Bill Gates goes to Catholic services every Sunday, but he is probably lazy now.
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
Hard work does not equal or guarantee success if you are measuring success as being wealthy.
Hard work does equal success if success means attaining the middle class by middle age...it is attainable for anyone with a high school diploma and work ethic.
Even if you start at minimum wage if you are a good employee you don't stay at minimum — show up to work on time, work hard while you are there, show initiative, work overtime when needed, you will be promoted in time or will be able to apply for better jobs to help move up.
It's the reason, when someone is 30+ years old and still making minimum I have to wonder how good of an employee they really are. If you are a good employee you just don't stay at minimum wage.
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
i didn't read the article, but did someone just pull her off the street and give her tenure? hard work seems to me a critical part of consciousness. what creature can truly be alive without feeling the sensation of their energy in motion? even domesticated animals are exhausted at the end of the day from loving you so much. one certainly gains a much greater appreciation for a cold pilsner and a five gallon bucket which upon to roost after dirtying some hands. you might reflect upon your work and swell with pride, or, if you're a person of a certain disposition, you shy away from compliments and a well nourished ego because you were just doing your job
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
Many of you bring up good points and I totally agree that devaluing hard work is not the way to go.
I also disagree that the idea of America being a true meritocracy is inherently racist. I do, however, believe it is classist in the sense that the idea has been pushed for centuries by politicians and an upper class in order to motivate a working class that never truly had a way out of poverty. Things have slowly gotten better for the working class but it was through political means and tech advancement, not entirely hard work.
This is a nuanced subject and although the professor's remarks are a bit radical and off base, dumbing them down and twisting it to "hard work is a white ideology" is pretty unproductive and akin to the left crying racism at every turn.
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2017 07:42 PM by wmubroncopilot.)
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
(10-02-2017 05:47 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:
(10-02-2017 05:37 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: Remember what used to be known as the "Protestant work ethic?"
Well, the Protestants that created it didn't come from any other place than Europe.
I'm a Catholic and the "protestant work ethic" bit used to offend me. Until I thought about it and realized that it's true.
Most other Catholics I know who achieve financial success will use that success to get more leisure time and to raise a strong family. But most Protestants I know will continue to work hard to accumulate wealth and possessions. That's how our country was built.
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
(10-02-2017 06:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:
(10-02-2017 05:06 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: She's saying America (and the world) is not a true meritocracy and hard work is not an automatic ticket to success. Seemed pretty clear to me.
She's trying to undermine the idea that hard work yield benefit... That's toxic! Go into HS classes or freshman seminars and tell those AA kids trying to break the cycle of poverty.... You know hard work is really a flawed white concept..
"Professors should teach students “how racism and whiteness function in various contexts, the powerful influence of systems and institutions, and the pervasiveness of whiteness ideologies within the United States,” she adds, recommending the use of “role-play activities” and “readings, discussions, films, and activities.”"
See here's the problem. If she kept this SJW word salad in her sociology classes I would not care all that much. But you can bet your bottom dollar she wants this crap to leak into real sciences.
What do you think those Sociology majors do when they graduate? They go out and get jobs that affect our society. No, this is toxic in the tiniest of amounts.
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
(10-02-2017 07:41 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: Many of you bring up good points and I totally agree that devaluing hard work is not the way to go.
I also disagree that the idea of America being a true meritocracy is inherently racist. I do, however, believe it is classist in the sense that the idea has been pushed for centuries by politicians and an upper class in order to motivate a working class that never truly had a way out of poverty. Things have slowly gotten better for the working class but it was through political means and tech advancement, not entirely hard work.
This is a nuanced subject and although the professor's remarks are a bit radical and off base, dumbing them down and twisting it to "hard work is a white ideology" is pretty unproductive and akin to the left crying racism at every turn.
That is a load of crap. The problem is, too many people think they should just *poof* transport out of poverty within a few years. It takes some families a generation or two, but it can be done, and is done from every type of community out there. I am living proof.
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
(10-02-2017 07:52 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote: What do you think those Sociology majors do when they graduate? They go out and get jobs that affect our society. No, this is toxic in the tiniest of amounts.
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
(10-02-2017 07:54 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:
(10-02-2017 07:41 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: Many of you bring up good points and I totally agree that devaluing hard work is not the way to go.
I also disagree that the idea of America being a true meritocracy is inherently racist. I do, however, believe it is classist in the sense that the idea has been pushed for centuries by politicians and an upper class in order to motivate a working class that never truly had a way out of poverty. Things have slowly gotten better for the working class but it was through political means and tech advancement, not entirely hard work.
This is a nuanced subject and although the professor's remarks are a bit radical and off base, dumbing them down and twisting it to "hard work is a white ideology" is pretty unproductive and akin to the left crying racism at every turn.
That is a load of crap. The problem is, too many people think they should just *poof* transport out of poverty within a few years. It takes some families a generation or two, but it can be done, and is done from every type of community out there. I am living proof.
All you have to do is take a look at the different ethnicities of immigrants. You never find Asians pushing this bunk. They live under their means until their families are educated and then they share to help pull up the next generation. Third generation Asian Americans are extremely successful as a rule. And I'm not speaking of just Japanese and Chinese families. Many Indian families have done it in two generations. They all however have one quality in common, they work their butts off. The second quality is that they help one another, provided effort is put forth.
I'd say that the Protestant Work Ethic needs an infusion from the Asian Work Ethic in both dedication and sense of community.
RE: Professor Angela Putman "Hard Work is a white ideology"
(10-02-2017 07:54 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:
(10-02-2017 07:41 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: Many of you bring up good points and I totally agree that devaluing hard work is not the way to go.
I also disagree that the idea of America being a true meritocracy is inherently racist. I do, however, believe it is classist in the sense that the idea has been pushed for centuries by politicians and an upper class in order to motivate a working class that never truly had a way out of poverty. Things have slowly gotten better for the working class but it was through political means and tech advancement, not entirely hard work.
This is a nuanced subject and although the professor's remarks are a bit radical and off base, dumbing them down and twisting it to "hard work is a white ideology" is pretty unproductive and akin to the left crying racism at every turn.
That is a load of crap. The problem is, too many people think they should just *poof* transport out of poverty within a few years. It takes some families a generation or two, but it can be done, and is done from every type of community out there. I am living proof.
It is possible, yes. In a world of six billion people (or country of 300 million) there will be lots of outliers. I am speaking generally, and in general the odds are stacked so heavily against many communities (not just racially based) that saying "work hard enough and you'll make it out" isn't really true.