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Death Penalty for UNC?
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 03:48 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 03:31 PM)samandrea Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 03:23 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 03:13 PM)samandrea Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 02:46 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Alaa Abdelnaby‏Verified account
@alaatweets

This NCAA scandal is about a guy who was caught giving UNC players $ in '15 and then turned informant for FBI. He then went to other schools

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My take: Pretty soon the ACC will be that cozy 8 team league the old guys pine for03-lmfao

Gave money to Robert Quinn and those guys in 2010, cost Butch Davis his job. UNC punished for the whole John Blake fiasco. This is totally different.

Different better or worse? Not following you.

The guy who was the informant was financial advisor that worked with agent that was paying UNC players in 2010 when Butch Davis was coach. It is completely unrelated to this FBI investigation. Trying to link UNC to the FBI investigation through this guy and his dealing with Blake and the agent in 2010 is false and dishonest.

Well you better tell ESPN...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...corruption

Quote:In 2015, Blazer was also linked to an investigation of improper cash payments to University of North Carolina football players. A grand jury indicted former Tar Heels player Christopher Hawkins for violating the state's sports agent law by giving money to a UNC player and illegally contacting another about signing a contract. During the investigation, former UNC linebacker Robert Quinn told state investigators that Hawkins gave Quinn money to steer him to Blazer and agent Peter Schaffer, according to court documents. Kendric Burney, the other former UNC player, told investigators that Hawkins arranged and attended Burney's meetings with Blazer and Schaffer.
The payments happened in 2010, his trial & conviction was in 2015 along with a couple of other guys I believe. So no this us not related to the current case just another ABC'er talking out the side of his neck
09-28-2017 03:58 PM
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PlayBall! Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 02:46 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  ...a guy who ... giving ... players $... . He then went to other schools

It doesn't seem fair to hold any school responsible for something out of their control.

Now if they learned of the infraction and did nothing or the wrong thing, they should be held responsible for that action or inaction.
09-28-2017 04:07 PM
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
This guy was banned from any campus in the state of North Carolina, so it would be highly unlikely he had any links to the university in 2015
09-28-2017 04:11 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 03:53 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  There was a massive point-shaving scandal back in the 1950s. There was the SMU death penalty outcome in the 1980s. There have been countless NCAA recruiting violations that have touched more schools than not over the past several decades. This isn't even a recent phenomenon with all of the TV money that has washed over college sports: these top athletes have ALWAYS been underpaid (as you can't get a lower salary than $0) and, as a result, they have ALWAYS been easy prey for those that can provide them with income that's more in line with what they're actually worth in the marketplace.

Until that economic imbalance is fixed for the PLAYERS, we'll always see scandals like this one. When athletes aren't getting paid what they would be worth in the free market, they're going to constantly get offered ways to bridge that gap by boosters, gamblers, coaches and agents (who in turn are trying to parlay that money given to players into financial gains for themselves).

If you go back to the thirties you'll find that the first Heisman winner, Jay Berwanger from the University of Chicago, turned down a pro contract from George Halas because he thought he could earn a better living at a rubber factory or something.

At the end of the day the only way to eliminate these issues is to eliminate college athletics or essentially scale them down to being about as big as college baseball. As long as university athletics remain an avenue to acquire money and fame with little risk of severe consequences, there will always be a strong incentive to find a way around the rules by exploiting workers paid below-market wages. No real change will come out of this imo, and that's just sad. At the end of the day a university is not there to make boosters happy and churn out pro athletes, it's to educate - we live in a weird society.
09-28-2017 05:52 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 04:07 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 02:46 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  ...a guy who ... giving ... players $... . He then went to other schools

It doesn't seem fair to hold any school responsible for something out of their control.

Now if they learned of the infraction and did nothing or the wrong thing, they should be held responsible for that action or inaction.

Sorry the NCAA has a catch all called:

Lack of Institutional Control

You can delegate authority but you can not delegate responsibility.
09-28-2017 06:00 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 02:53 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 02:46 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Alaa Abdelnaby‏Verified account
@alaatweets

This NCAA scandal is about a guy who was caught giving UNC players $ in '15 and then turned informant for FBI. He then went to other schools

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My take: Pretty soon the ACC will be that cozy 8 team league the old guys pine for03-lmfao

Yeah, can't wait to see the programming from that 8 team ACC Network...03-lmfao

Think ESPN will mind?

The ACC network will just have 30 for 30 documentaries about the Miami vs NCAA, UNC vs NCAA, Louisville vs FBI etc "games" must watch tv....
09-28-2017 06:32 PM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
UNC needs to probably have a few of their championships taken away. Take away 4 basketball scholarships and give them a 2 two post season ban for basketball and force Roy Williams to step down. That would be good enough punishment in my opinion. No reason to give them the death penalty. I do not see that ever happening again.

Louisville same thing as above.

I think Penn State got a fair punishment in football as well.

UNC football probably needs to be hit as well for the fake classes. I would hit every program that had a student athlete with a fake class with scholarship cut backs and two year post season ban
09-28-2017 06:37 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #28
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Blood-thirsty fans just need to get it through their heads that the death penalty simply doesn't exist in practicality for the NCAA anymore (even if it exists on paper). It didn't get applied to Penn State. It didn't get applied to Baylor. It will NOT get applied to UNC, Louisville or any other school going forward. We'll see the NCAA allow players to get paid outright before we see another school get the death penalty.

Sad, but true. NCAA really regretted what they did with SMU, and now they're letting programs get away with murder basically. NCAA should have gotten over SMU a long time ago, and handed out more dP's, but they didn't do anything, which considering how wimpy the NCAA is, doesn't surprise me.
09-28-2017 10:34 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Blood-thirsty fans just need to get it through their heads that the death penalty simply doesn't exist in practicality for the NCAA anymore (even if it exists on paper). It didn't get applied to Penn State. It didn't get applied to Baylor. It will NOT get applied to UNC, Louisville or any other school going forward. We'll see the NCAA allow players to get paid outright before we see another school get the death penalty.

/F'in thread
09-28-2017 10:41 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #30
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 06:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 02:53 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 02:46 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Alaa Abdelnaby‏Verified account
@alaatweets

This NCAA scandal is about a guy who was caught giving UNC players $ in '15 and then turned informant for FBI. He then went to other schools

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My take: Pretty soon the ACC will be that cozy 8 team league the old guys pine for03-lmfao

Yeah, can't wait to see the programming from that 8 team ACC Network...03-lmfao

Think ESPN will mind?

The ACC network will just have 30 for 30 documentaries about the Miami vs NCAA, UNC vs NCAA, Louisville vs FBI etc "games" must watch tv....

NC State vs the People's Court?? Still think the Wolfpack would lose that one though, lol!!
09-28-2017 10:47 PM
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stxrunner Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Blood-thirsty fans just need to get it through their heads that the death penalty simply doesn't exist in practicality for the NCAA anymore (even if it exists on paper). It didn't get applied to Penn State. It didn't get applied to Baylor. It will NOT get applied to UNC, Louisville or any other school going forward. We'll see the NCAA allow players to get paid outright before we see another school get the death penalty.

People need to understand what the 'death penalty' actually is. It's actuallly called the 'repeat violators clause'. It's for repeat violators. Meaning already on probation. UNC won't get it, Baylor won't get it, and Penn St didn't get it because they weren't 'eligible' for that penalty. They weren't already on probation, although I'm sure there were other reasons as well.

I doubt it gets handed out again, so in that I agree. But IF it ever were, it's going to be UofL. This is like an example story in the NCAA handbook. On probation, caught on tape with a staff member saying he knows they have to be careful about breaking the rules because they are on probation, then leaping right into breaking the rules. Not sure it comes to it, but it's definitely a real possibility for UofL, but it is not for UNC.
09-28-2017 11:31 PM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 03:42 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Blood-thirsty fans just need to get it through their heads that the death penalty simply doesn't exist in practicality for the NCAA anymore (even if it exists on paper). It didn't get applied to Penn State. It didn't get applied to Baylor. It will NOT get applied to UNC, Louisville or any other school going forward. We'll see the NCAA allow players to get paid outright before we see another school get the death penalty.

You're probably right, but what if the FBI investigation somehow implicates the NCAA? Wouldn't that be a hoot?
This is what I'm hoping for.

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09-29-2017 05:36 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 03:02 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 03:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 02:56 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't think we will ever see the death penalty again.

But, this could explain why the system has been so slow to address the UNC situation at all.


With what is going down right now? I think the NCAA and the big boys of the P5 may have no choice but to give schools the Death Penalty. I think people in this country would celebrate Baylor gets the death penalty, Miami the dp, and so forth.

Angry little fans always celebrate that kind of thing but I don't think any decent person likes to watch a program go through that--too much collateral damage.

Exactly even the sanctions that were imposed on us were far too harsh in my opinion. They didn't stop us from winning we still had a few great Seasons while we were on sanctions. But it's stupid to punish the players for what one selfish person did.

During those sanction years we had so many guys get injured that shouldn't have got injured because of lack of depth.
09-29-2017 06:43 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
How about this, instead of sanctions or the death penalty, they have to switch places with a G5 school. They still can play football or basketball and have a chance to make the playoff or major bowl as well as play in the basketball tournament.
That I think will straighten up a lot of the P5 schools.
09-29-2017 06:51 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-29-2017 06:51 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  How about this, instead of sanctions or the death penalty, they have to switch places with a G5 school. They still can play football or basketball and have a chance to make the playoff or major bowl as well as play in the basketball tournament.
That I think will straighten up a lot of the P5 schools.

Suddenly 30k fan boys got an instant woody in Connecticut
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2017 06:59 AM by TexanMark.)
09-29-2017 06:58 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-29-2017 06:51 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  How about this, instead of sanctions or the death penalty, they have to switch places with a G5 school. They still can play football or basketball and have a chance to make the playoff or major bowl as well as play in the basketball tournament.
That I think will straighten up a lot of the P5 schools.

That would be hilarious! So you are suggesting, say, UNC and UL play a season in the American Athletic Conference while Cincinnati and ECU take their places in the ACC?
(What if the other ACC teams decide to keep it that way...?)
05-stirthepot
09-29-2017 07:00 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-29-2017 07:00 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-29-2017 06:51 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  How about this, instead of sanctions or the death penalty, they have to switch places with a G5 school. They still can play football or basketball and have a chance to make the playoff or major bowl as well as play in the basketball tournament.
That I think will straighten up a lot of the P5 schools.

That would be hilarious! So you are suggesting, say, UNC and UL play a season in the American Athletic Conference while Cincinnati and ECU take their places in the ACC?
(What if the other ACC teams decide to keep it that way...?)
05-stirthepot

Not a season, more like a permanent move unless they get an invite back. However, the p5 conference would not be able to kick out the G5 schools that was brought in....unless they did bad things or a 95% of schools vote to kick them out.
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2017 07:49 AM by MWC Tex.)
09-29-2017 07:18 AM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
Aside from the deserved punishment for individuals and institutions by the legal system and current ncaa rules, the best thing that could come from all this is the feds mandating that the ncaa remain in control of rules for eligibility, competition, etc. but the enforcement portion taken away from them. After all, the current ncaa enforcement situation is nothing more than the member institutions enforcing the rules on themselves. Not a good idea. Not sure what entity could do it but it cannot be controlled by ncaa members.
09-29-2017 07:28 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 02:46 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Alaa Abdelnaby‏Verified account
@alaatweets

This NCAA scandal is about a guy who was caught giving UNC players $ in '15 and then turned informant for FBI. He then went to other schools

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My take: Pretty soon the ACC will be that cozy 8 team league the old guys pine for03-lmfao

RE: Greensboro's lead sports story
Anything written coming out of Raleigh is suspect.
Writers Andrew Carter and Dan Kane are in NC State's pocket and slant everything possible against Carolina.

In today's News & Record The headline reads "Apparent FBI informant in scandal had ties to UNC"
and then the closest association they could pin on the informant was that at one time he tried to lure former UNC football players to his financial advising business. Those are some really, really close ties huh?04-jawdrop

Written by Andrew Carter
(This post was last modified: 09-29-2017 08:03 AM by XLance.)
09-29-2017 08:02 AM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Death Penalty for UNC?
(09-28-2017 03:53 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 03:39 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 03:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Blood-thirsty fans just need to get it through their heads that the death penalty simply doesn't exist in practicality for the NCAA anymore (even if it exists on paper). It didn't get applied to Penn State. It didn't get applied to Baylor. It will NOT get applied to UNC, Louisville or any other school going forward. We'll see the NCAA allow players to get paid outright before we see another school get the death penalty.

Well what do you do to a program like Louisville who has not only been paying players but also getting prostitutes for high school kids? You vacate some wins and take away some scholarships? No post season play for a few years and all of those end up being reduced? If thats the case then the message is out that the risk is worth the reward.

Maybe this is my cynical side coming out... but pretty much every school has determined that the risk is worth the reward. The chances of finding NCAA violations at EVERY Division I program (much less the power programs) is pretty high if you dig enough. Every Division I school is living in a glass house in today's world. That's the byproduct of the NCAA pretending that these athletes are amateurs and driving would normally happen in an open free market where people are paid what they're actually worth in the marketplace into an underground economy. Top recruits get offered money by shoe reps, coaches and street agents along with being susceptible to other nefarious interests (e.g. gamblers) because they're very clearly worth more than the value of a scholarship to these schools in terms of ticket sales, donations, TV exposure, etc.

There was a massive point-shaving scandal back in the 1950s. There was the SMU death penalty outcome in the 1980s. There have been countless NCAA recruiting violations that have touched more schools than not over the past several decades. This isn't even a recent phenomenon with all of the TV money that has washed over college sports: these top athletes have ALWAYS been underpaid (as you can't get a lower salary than $0) and, as a result, they have ALWAYS been easy prey for those that can provide them with income that's more in line with what they're actually worth in the marketplace.

Until that economic imbalance is fixed for the PLAYERS, we'll always see scandals like this one. When athletes aren't getting paid what they would be worth in the free market, they're going to constantly get offered ways to bridge that gap by boosters, gamblers, coaches and agents (who in turn are trying to parlay that money given to players into financial gains for themselves).

It's not cynicism - just reality. Universities are so far in the weeds by continuing to sponsor revenue sports at their current level. The universities mission is to educate people. That is 180 deg from willingly taking lower quality students just because they can play a revenue sport. That and the corruption plus overpaid coaches vs real university employees...what a joke!
09-29-2017 08:15 AM
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