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So, how deep does this scandal go?
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #61
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 02:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-26-2017 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The FBI is just tugging on the first few inches of a 5 mile long ball of yarn. The question is do they unroll and investigate all 5 miles or grab some headlines with the first few inches? Who they don't investigate will likely show us the motives for the investigative process. If they investigate the whole 5 miles they will have earned my applause. If they stop with just a few this was a hatchet job on behalf of another party or parties.

You think the FBI cares if it's Louisville or Kentucky? That the FBI is doing a hatchet job on behalf of another school/conference? Uh okay...

You are so obtuse sometimes. The FBI had to get a tip to start an investigation. That tip could have come from another shoe company, a school, or a conference. Heck it could have come from a kid or a parent. Immunity is frequently given for a tip. If the scope is limited it "may" indicate a source. It's not the FBI that would have an agenda, it's the one who gave the tip to start the investigation that likely has an agenda.

It is possible too that a tip could have come from another government agency, like the Treasury Department. It is also possible that the FBI was investigating an entirely different matter and stumbled across this one.

We'll see.
It all started with a cooperating witness. How did the FBI manage to get involved in the shrouded world of college recruiting?An unidentified financial advisor (now revealed as Martin Blazer, per multiple reports), who was charged in 2016 by the SEC with fraud, became cooperating witness after those charges were filed. The witness informed the FBI, as means of cooperation, that he could bring light to fraud and corruption in the world of college recruiting because said witness had been party to it in the past.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...asketball/
09-27-2017 02:07 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #62
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 02:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-26-2017 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The FBI is just tugging on the first few inches of a 5 mile long ball of yarn. The question is do they unroll and investigate all 5 miles or grab some headlines with the first few inches? Who they don't investigate will likely show us the motives for the investigative process. If they investigate the whole 5 miles they will have earned my applause. If they stop with just a few this was a hatchet job on behalf of another party or parties.

You think the FBI cares if it's Louisville or Kentucky? That the FBI is doing a hatchet job on behalf of another school/conference? Uh okay...

You are so obtuse sometimes. The FBI had to get a tip to start an investigation. That tip could have come from another shoe company, a school, or a conference. Heck it could have come from a kid or a parent. Immunity is frequently given for a tip. If the scope is limited it "may" indicate a source. It's not the FBI that would have an agenda, it's the one who gave the tip to start the investigation that likely has an agenda.

It is possible too that a tip could have come from another government agency, like the Treasury Department. It is also possible that the FBI was investigating an entirely different matter and stumbled across this one.

We'll see.
It all started with a cooperating witness. How did the FBI manage to get involved in the shrouded world of college recruiting?An unidentified financial advisor (now revealed as Martin Blazer, per multiple reports), who was charged in 2016 by the SEC with fraud, became cooperating witness after those charges were filed. The witness informed the FBI, as means of cooperation, that he could bring light to fraud and corruption in the world of college recruiting because said witness had been party to it in the past.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...asketball/

What I heard too...not sure JR is on track here.
09-27-2017 02:51 PM
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DavidSt Online
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Post: #63
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
Scandals do happen, and not always at the D1 level. It happens everywhere. This does happen at the high school level as well. Even though it is D1 does not mean it is not happening in other places in college sports at all levels. The money levels are different at each level.
09-27-2017 03:42 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #64
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 02:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-26-2017 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The FBI is just tugging on the first few inches of a 5 mile long ball of yarn. The question is do they unroll and investigate all 5 miles or grab some headlines with the first few inches? Who they don't investigate will likely show us the motives for the investigative process. If they investigate the whole 5 miles they will have earned my applause. If they stop with just a few this was a hatchet job on behalf of another party or parties.

You think the FBI cares if it's Louisville or Kentucky? That the FBI is doing a hatchet job on behalf of another school/conference? Uh okay...

You are so obtuse sometimes. The FBI had to get a tip to start an investigation. That tip could have come from another shoe company, a school, or a conference. Heck it could have come from a kid or a parent. Immunity is frequently given for a tip. If the scope is limited it "may" indicate a source. It's not the FBI that would have an agenda, it's the one who gave the tip to start the investigation that likely has an agenda.

It is possible too that a tip could have come from another government agency, like the Treasury Department. It is also possible that the FBI was investigating an entirely different matter and stumbled across this one.

We'll see.
It all started with a cooperating witness. How did the FBI manage to get involved in the shrouded world of college recruiting?An unidentified financial advisor (now revealed as Martin Blazer, per multiple reports), who was charged in 2016 by the SEC with fraud, became cooperating witness after those charges were filed. The witness informed the FBI, as means of cooperation, that he could bring light to fraud and corruption in the world of college recruiting because said witness had been party to it in the past.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...asketball/

What I heard too...not sure JR is on track here.

Didn't know about Blazer. It makes sense.
09-27-2017 03:51 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #65
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 03:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  You think the FBI cares if it's Louisville or Kentucky? That the FBI is doing a hatchet job on behalf of another school/conference? Uh okay...

You are so obtuse sometimes. The FBI had to get a tip to start an investigation. That tip could have come from another shoe company, a school, or a conference. Heck it could have come from a kid or a parent. Immunity is frequently given for a tip. If the scope is limited it "may" indicate a source. It's not the FBI that would have an agenda, it's the one who gave the tip to start the investigation that likely has an agenda.

It is possible too that a tip could have come from another government agency, like the Treasury Department. It is also possible that the FBI was investigating an entirely different matter and stumbled across this one.

We'll see.
It all started with a cooperating witness. How did the FBI manage to get involved in the shrouded world of college recruiting?An unidentified financial advisor (now revealed as Martin Blazer, per multiple reports), who was charged in 2016 by the SEC with fraud, became cooperating witness after those charges were filed. The witness informed the FBI, as means of cooperation, that he could bring light to fraud and corruption in the world of college recruiting because said witness had been party to it in the past.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...asketball/

What I heard too...not sure JR is on track here.

Didn't know about Blazer. It makes sense.

I did enjoy reading the word obtuse though...don't worry RutgersGuy doesn't know what it means. 03-lmfao
09-27-2017 04:01 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #66
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 02:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-26-2017 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The FBI is just tugging on the first few inches of a 5 mile long ball of yarn. The question is do they unroll and investigate all 5 miles or grab some headlines with the first few inches? Who they don't investigate will likely show us the motives for the investigative process. If they investigate the whole 5 miles they will have earned my applause. If they stop with just a few this was a hatchet job on behalf of another party or parties.

You think the FBI cares if it's Louisville or Kentucky? That the FBI is doing a hatchet job on behalf of another school/conference? Uh okay...

You are so obtuse sometimes. The FBI had to get a tip to start an investigation. That tip could have come from another shoe company, a school, or a conference. Heck it could have come from a kid or a parent. Immunity is frequently given for a tip. If the scope is limited it "may" indicate a source. It's not the FBI that would have an agenda, it's the one who gave the tip to start the investigation that likely has an agenda.

It is possible too that a tip could have come from another government agency, like the Treasury Department. It is also possible that the FBI was investigating an entirely different matter and stumbled across this one.

We'll see.

I'm obtuse? This is how things usually work, they don't just get a random "tip" from someone. They usually catch someone doing something illegal. Then they squeeze that person for more info on something or someone bigger than the fish they already have caught.

You think the FBI is going to start a full on investigation into Louisville because UK called them, and told them they were paying players? The FBI doesn't care about paying players. The FBI got involved because a shoe company was bribing employees of a federally funded institution.

The most likely (much more likely than your scenario) is that they caught a small fish for something and got them to flip for them and then used that info/evidence to reel in the bigger fish.

The FBI isn't running around trying to catch NCAA infractions. They aren't there to do the dirty work for rival schools and conferences. Thats a naive idea that spawns on message boards.
09-27-2017 04:17 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #67
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
We know how deep it goes until the end of the movie.

[Image: 1f37ae52af618f23a99a5ecabdc15bc5.jpg]
09-27-2017 04:21 PM
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DavidSt Online
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Post: #68
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
The issue with Louisville is something to think about Bellarmine. Both programs from the same town are always a threat to win the men's basketball tournament at both levels. They both have great players. Only difference is that Bellarmine could except students that Louisville can't because of GPA and SAT exams are low. The way it could happen for Louisville to get those players back is to have them attend Bellarmine for a couple of years to get their remedial courses in to get their GPA up, and transfer in cross town. I might not be surprise there could have been a deal set up between Pitino and the coach at Bellarmine to help both programs out where the town of Louisville could take the NCAA D1 and 2 titles in men's basketball. Some scandals do have a large schools and a smaller school involved at times.
09-27-2017 04:23 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #69
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 04:01 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 03:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  You are so obtuse sometimes. The FBI had to get a tip to start an investigation. That tip could have come from another shoe company, a school, or a conference. Heck it could have come from a kid or a parent. Immunity is frequently given for a tip. If the scope is limited it "may" indicate a source. It's not the FBI that would have an agenda, it's the one who gave the tip to start the investigation that likely has an agenda.

It is possible too that a tip could have come from another government agency, like the Treasury Department. It is also possible that the FBI was investigating an entirely different matter and stumbled across this one.

We'll see.
It all started with a cooperating witness. How did the FBI manage to get involved in the shrouded world of college recruiting?An unidentified financial advisor (now revealed as Martin Blazer, per multiple reports), who was charged in 2016 by the SEC with fraud, became cooperating witness after those charges were filed. The witness informed the FBI, as means of cooperation, that he could bring light to fraud and corruption in the world of college recruiting because said witness had been party to it in the past.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...asketball/

What I heard too...not sure JR is on track here.

Didn't know about Blazer. It makes sense.

I did enjoy reading the word obtuse though...don't worry RutgersGuy doesn't know what it means. 03-lmfao

It means a fat person that is wider than 90 degrees but less than 180 degrees. 07-coffee3
09-27-2017 05:11 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #70
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 04:17 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-26-2017 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The FBI is just tugging on the first few inches of a 5 mile long ball of yarn. The question is do they unroll and investigate all 5 miles or grab some headlines with the first few inches? Who they don't investigate will likely show us the motives for the investigative process. If they investigate the whole 5 miles they will have earned my applause. If they stop with just a few this was a hatchet job on behalf of another party or parties.

You think the FBI cares if it's Louisville or Kentucky? That the FBI is doing a hatchet job on behalf of another school/conference? Uh okay...

You are so obtuse sometimes. The FBI had to get a tip to start an investigation. That tip could have come from another shoe company, a school, or a conference. Heck it could have come from a kid or a parent. Immunity is frequently given for a tip. If the scope is limited it "may" indicate a source. It's not the FBI that would have an agenda, it's the one who gave the tip to start the investigation that likely has an agenda.

It is possible too that a tip could have come from another government agency, like the Treasury Department. It is also possible that the FBI was investigating an entirely different matter and stumbled across this one.

We'll see.

I'm obtuse? This is how things usually work, they don't just get a random "tip" from someone. They usually catch someone doing something illegal. Then they squeeze that person for more info on something or someone bigger than the fish they already have caught.

You think the FBI is going to start a full on investigation into Louisville because UK called them, and told them they were paying players? The FBI doesn't care about paying players. The FBI got involved because a shoe company was bribing employees of a federally funded institution.

The most likely (much more likely than your scenario) is that they caught a small fish for something and got them to flip for them and then used that info/evidence to reel in the bigger fish.

The FBI isn't running around trying to catch NCAA infractions. They aren't there to do the dirty work for rival schools and conferences. Thats a naive idea that spawns on message boards.

I think I covered that. I investigated infractions, but not for the NCAA, for well over a decade while I was also doing other work in a related field. And yes, tips come from all kinds of sources, and most have some basis of truth in them and as you learn the sources you can triage those pretty fast. Whether that will eventually involve an agency like the FBI depends on the nature of the allegations.

That's why the FBI said this morning that they were not looking at going after schools, but rather individuals. The NCAA will go after the schools.

As it turns out this investigation came out of another. It could just as easily have come from a tip.

But, the only thing that matters here is that the FBI can glean far more information than the NCAA. This is only going to balloon. And while the recruitment of football players differs substantially from that of basketball players they both sell apparel. So this is just getting started. They subpoenaed Nike this afternoon and probably will be doing the same with Under Armour.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017 05:18 PM by JRsec.)
09-27-2017 05:16 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #71
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 05:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 04:17 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 02:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-26-2017 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The FBI is just tugging on the first few inches of a 5 mile long ball of yarn. The question is do they unroll and investigate all 5 miles or grab some headlines with the first few inches? Who they don't investigate will likely show us the motives for the investigative process. If they investigate the whole 5 miles they will have earned my applause. If they stop with just a few this was a hatchet job on behalf of another party or parties.

You think the FBI cares if it's Louisville or Kentucky? That the FBI is doing a hatchet job on behalf of another school/conference? Uh okay...

You are so obtuse sometimes. The FBI had to get a tip to start an investigation. That tip could have come from another shoe company, a school, or a conference. Heck it could have come from a kid or a parent. Immunity is frequently given for a tip. If the scope is limited it "may" indicate a source. It's not the FBI that would have an agenda, it's the one who gave the tip to start the investigation that likely has an agenda.

It is possible too that a tip could have come from another government agency, like the Treasury Department. It is also possible that the FBI was investigating an entirely different matter and stumbled across this one.

We'll see.

I'm obtuse? This is how things usually work, they don't just get a random "tip" from someone. They usually catch someone doing something illegal. Then they squeeze that person for more info on something or someone bigger than the fish they already have caught.

You think the FBI is going to start a full on investigation into Louisville because UK called them, and told them they were paying players? The FBI doesn't care about paying players. The FBI got involved because a shoe company was bribing employees of a federally funded institution.

The most likely (much more likely than your scenario) is that they caught a small fish for something and got them to flip for them and then used that info/evidence to reel in the bigger fish.

The FBI isn't running around trying to catch NCAA infractions. They aren't there to do the dirty work for rival schools and conferences. Thats a naive idea that spawns on message boards.

I think I covered that. I investigated infractions, but not for the NCAA, for well over a decade while I was also doing other work in a related field. And yes, tips come from all kinds of sources, and most have some basis of truth in them and as you learn the sources you can triage those pretty fast. Whether that will eventually involve an agency like the FBI depends on the nature of the allegations.

That's why the FBI said this morning that they were not looking at going after schools, but rather individuals. The NCAA will go after the schools.

As it turns out this investigation came out of another. It could just as easily have come from a tip.

But, the only thing that matters here is that the FBI can glean far more information than the NCAA. This is only going to balloon. And while the recruitment of football players differs substantially from that of basketball players they both sell apparel. So this is just getting started. They subpoenaed Nike this afternoon and probably will be doing the same with Under Armour.
The shoe companies and other entities will spill the names of everyone involved. The FBI will cut deals with accused parties. This is just the tip of the iceberg. As I type this, the local news is discussing an Alabama and Miami coach. People will talk to stay out of prison or for a reduced sentence.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017 10:35 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
09-27-2017 10:33 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #72
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
What's funny is the ncaa didn't know this was going on but busted a kid for bottling water.

Ncaa. Gtfoh
09-27-2017 10:44 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #73
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
Universities have hired personnel to protect them from the NCAA. Alabama is a good example of this as is UK (http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...official).

As evidenced tonight with Alabama's announcement, these schools never considered the FBI getting involved. It would be interesting to track the electronic communications between these hired "insiders" and the NCAA and who exactly the "go to" players are for this grouping.
09-27-2017 10:54 PM
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domer1978 Offline
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RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
Any on a Brian Kelly? Asking for a friend.
09-27-2017 11:01 PM
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Dasville Offline
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RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 10:44 PM)shere khan Wrote:  What's funny is the ncaa didn't know this was going on but busted a kid for bottling water.

Ncaa. Gtfoh

I wonder?
09-27-2017 11:24 PM
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Mestophalies Offline
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RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-27-2017 11:24 PM)Dasville Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 10:44 PM)shere khan Wrote:  What's funny is the ncaa didn't know this was going on but busted a kid for bottling water.

Ncaa. Gtfoh

I wonder?

That's the most lucid comment I've ever seen you post.

Bravo!!! Epic Applause
09-27-2017 11:32 PM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
The ncaa was started due to the fed govt intervening as injuries mounted in college football.

Will this huge college basketball scandal result in the fed govt intervening in a heavy handed way that changes college athletics in some drastic or at least meaningful way?
09-28-2017 07:03 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #78
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-28-2017 07:03 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  The ncaa was started due to the fed govt intervening as injuries mounted in college football.

Will this huge college basketball scandal result in the fed govt intervening in a heavy handed way that changes college athletics in some drastic or at least meaningful way?

One would only hope so. The simplest fix would be for legislation to deem intercollegiate athletics to be a business enterprise unrelated to the universities' tax exempt purpose, and scholarship athletes to be employees of that enterprise. Then, already existing laws and IRS regulations would apply, and be enforceable by someone outside the NCAA.
09-28-2017 07:19 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #79
RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-28-2017 07:19 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 07:03 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  The ncaa was started due to the fed govt intervening as injuries mounted in college football.

Will this huge college basketball scandal result in the fed govt intervening in a heavy handed way that changes college athletics in some drastic or at least meaningful way?

One would only hope so. The simplest fix would be for legislation to deem intercollegiate athletics to be a business enterprise unrelated to the universities' tax exempt purpose, and scholarship athletes to be employees of that enterprise. Then, already existing laws and IRS regulations would apply, and be enforceable by someone outside the NCAA.
This approach is what the government is after because the payouts should be taxable. However, I believe the side effects would be positive for the schools. Player discipline has to improve because if the players are "properly" paid discipline from the coaches has a much greater impact. It's hard for a complicit coach to discipline a thug who knows the coach is dirty. If the payout is legal then the coach has the authority to cut off that money and replace the player without fear of retaliation.

I short it puts the burden of compliance on the players.
09-28-2017 11:06 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: So, how deep does this scandal go?
(09-28-2017 07:19 AM)ken d Wrote:  One would only hope so. The simplest fix would be for legislation to deem intercollegiate athletics to be a business enterprise unrelated to the universities' tax exempt purpose, and scholarship athletes to be employees of that enterprise. Then, already existing laws and IRS regulations would apply, and be enforceable by someone outside the NCAA.

I think that's the ideal thing, but I would expect schools to fight it so hard. And, they'd throw their other portfolio items as a way to indicate why one aspect of operations should be taxed but not another. Non-credit course learning centers, assessment centers, camps, conferences, research...there's plenty of ways the money flows into institutions. Sports is only a small piece of it...and, heck, most schools don't run in the black with their programs.
09-28-2017 12:36 PM
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