(09-26-2017 04:59 PM)LonghornOwl Wrote:  How can anyone (and I mean anyone associated with Rice University) stand this anymore?

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...17aaa.html

"We have got to get everybody on the same page. It starts with me. Everything in this program begins and ends with me. We’ve got to get the offense on the same page. We’ve got execution errors up front. We have execution errors with the running backs (and) receivers. We’re looking at everything that we’re doing in practice to ensure that we’re getting the execution that we need."

David Bailiff legacy - ran the Rice football program to the ground. Here's a few names given to Rice in the last few weeks: Minute Rice, High School team, Rice got punked......

We have to give him credit - the best at quotes and excuses.

(09-26-2017 05:06 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 04:59 PM)LonghornOwl Wrote:  How can anyone (and I mean anyone associated with Rice University) stand this anymore?
http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...17aaa.html
"We have got to get everybody on the same page. It starts with me. Everything in this program begins and ends with me. We’ve got to get the offense on the same page. We’ve got execution errors up front. We have execution errors with the running backs (and) receivers. We’re looking at everything that we’re doing in practice to ensure that we’re getting the execution that we need."

You're going to hear the same stuff next year, regardless of who is coach.

Yes, but, maybe another coach would get tired of saying it and do something about it.

(09-27-2017 07:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 05:06 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 04:59 PM)LonghornOwl Wrote:  How can anyone (and I mean anyone associated with Rice University) stand this anymore?
http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...17aaa.html
"We have got to get everybody on the same page. It starts with me. Everything in this program begins and ends with me. We’ve got to get the offense on the same page. We’ve got execution errors up front. We have execution errors with the running backs (and) receivers. We’re looking at everything that we’re doing in practice to ensure that we’re getting the execution that we need."

You're going to hear the same stuff next year, regardless of who is coach.

Yes, but, maybe another coach would get tired of saying it and do something about it.

The coaches will always say it. I think Bailiff is trying to do something about it. Maybe another coach will be more effective in doing something about it and therefore won't need to say anything about it. But I certainly expect to hear stuff like this next year, regardless.

What do y'all want to hear from our coach next year? That every player did everything right and so there is no need for improvement? I would like to hear that also. Especially if he was right.

(09-27-2017 07:39 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The coaches will always say it. I think Bailiff is trying to do something about it.

I question that, simply because it's been 11 years with the same mistakes made over and over but never corrected. How many times has Rice beaten Rice? When that happens, you're either coaching it or tolerating it. And I think he tolerates it.

Note that I'm not saying he coaches it. I'm saying he tolerates it, which is different but still a problem.

(09-27-2017 08:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 07:39 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The coaches will always say it. I think Bailiff is trying to do something about it.

I question that, simply because it's been 11 years with the same mistakes made over and over but never corrected. How many times has Rice beaten Rice? When that happens, you're either coaching it or tolerating it. And I think he tolerates it.

Note that I'm not saying he coaches it. I'm saying he tolerates it, which is different but still a problem.

Well, trying to do something about it but being ineffectual at it is not the same as tolerating it. Tolerating it implies taking no action. while being ineffectual implies trying but failing. Both imply the recognition of the problem. I cannot imagine any coach knowing of problems but ignoring them. Our next coach will not tolerate mistakes either, but he may well be ineffectual in correcting them. No need to imply intent to fail to a failure to achieve.

(09-26-2017 11:30 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 04:59 PM)LonghornOwl Wrote:  How can anyone (and I mean anyone associated with Rice University) stand this anymore?

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...17aaa.html

"We have got to get everybody on the same page. It starts with me. Everything in this program begins and ends with me. We’ve got to get the offense on the same page. We’ve got execution errors up front. We have execution errors with the running backs (and) receivers. We’re looking at everything that we’re doing in practice to ensure that we’re getting the execution that we need."

David Bailiff legacy - ran the Rice football program to the ground. Here's a few names given to Rice in the last few weeks: Minute Rice, High School team, Rice got punked......

We have to give him credit - the best at quotes and excuses.

The persons who stood by and let him run the program into the ground (JK? Board? Leebron) are equally culpable.

(09-27-2017 09:17 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 11:30 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 04:59 PM)LonghornOwl Wrote:  How can anyone (and I mean anyone associated with Rice University) stand this anymore?

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...17aaa.html

"We have got to get everybody on the same page. It starts with me. Everything in this program begins and ends with me. We’ve got to get the offense on the same page. We’ve got execution errors up front. We have execution errors with the running backs (and) receivers. We’re looking at everything that we’re doing in practice to ensure that we’re getting the execution that we need."

David Bailiff legacy - ran the Rice football program to the ground. Here's a few names given to Rice in the last few weeks: Minute Rice, High School team, Rice got punked......

We have to give him credit - the best at quotes and excuses.

The persons who stood by and let him run the program into the ground (JK? Board? Leebron) are equally culpable.

+1000.

(09-27-2017 09:20 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:17 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 11:30 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 04:59 PM)LonghornOwl Wrote:  How can anyone (and I mean anyone associated with Rice University) stand this anymore?

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...17aaa.html

"We have got to get everybody on the same page. It starts with me. Everything in this program begins and ends with me. We’ve got to get the offense on the same page. We’ve got execution errors up front. We have execution errors with the running backs (and) receivers. We’re looking at everything that we’re doing in practice to ensure that we’re getting the execution that we need."

David Bailiff legacy - ran the Rice football program to the ground. Here's a few names given to Rice in the last few weeks: Minute Rice, High School team, Rice got punked......

We have to give him credit - the best at quotes and excuses.

The persons who stood by and let him run the program into the ground (JK? Board? Leebron) are equally culpable.

+1000.

Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

(09-27-2017 08:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 07:39 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The coaches will always say it. I think Bailiff is trying to do something about it.

I question that, simply because it's been 11 years with the same mistakes made over and over but never corrected. How many times has Rice beaten Rice? When that happens, you're either coaching it or tolerating it. And I think he tolerates it.

Note that I'm not saying he coaches it. I'm saying he tolerates it, which is different but still a problem.

Owl69...I don't think I disagree with you that he tolerates it, but I guess I would nuance it or define what you mean a little more. If by tolerate you mean "DB is 'ok' with 11 years of the same mistakes," I probably disagree slightly.

I don't think Bailiff enjoys losing. Or is ok with the mistakes. Seems to me it's more likely he's just incapable of fixing them. There are plenty of problems in my life (and my job) that I'm aware of and know the solution but for one reason or another can't implement that solution. Or maybe there's a problem I see but don't know the solution and so can't fix. I'd tend more towards this w/Bailiff (given most still think he's a man of integrity as far as I can tell) than he just tolerates it.

Now, I agree that I wish he expressed his frustrations more, or showed more passion, etc, etc...all kind of amorphous things. I've just gotten to the point that I think Bailiff is incapable of fixing the problems that we've seen for 11 years. Some people just aren't cut out for a job.

(09-27-2017 09:29 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:20 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:17 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 11:30 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 04:59 PM)LonghornOwl Wrote:  How can anyone (and I mean anyone associated with Rice University) stand this anymore?

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...17aaa.html

"We have got to get everybody on the same page. It starts with me. Everything in this program begins and ends with me. We’ve got to get the offense on the same page. We’ve got execution errors up front. We have execution errors with the running backs (and) receivers. We’re looking at everything that we’re doing in practice to ensure that we’re getting the execution that we need."

David Bailiff legacy - ran the Rice football program to the ground. Here's a few names given to Rice in the last few weeks: Minute Rice, High School team, Rice got punked......

We have to give him credit - the best at quotes and excuses.

The persons who stood by and let him run the program into the ground (JK? Board? Leebron) are equally culpable.

+1000.

Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

Good to see you finally came around.

(09-27-2017 10:25 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:29 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:20 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:17 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 11:30 PM)SaintsOwl Wrote:  David Bailiff legacy - ran the Rice football program to the ground. Here's a few names given to Rice in the last few weeks: Minute Rice, High School team, Rice got punked......

We have to give him credit - the best at quotes and excuses.

The persons who stood by and let him run the program into the ground (JK? Board? Leebron) are equally culpable.

+1000.

Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

Good to see you finally came around.

Not really here to seek the approval of the echo chamber. My hope is that instead of using the effort here, those who really want change will implore those in charge. While the department may read this place, the way to let them know you are pissed is through direct communication.

DB is not the only one to single out for blame. The program has been going downhill since Bo Hagan took over 50 years ago. We have had some decent coaches that stopped the decline for a while and others that let decline continue.

quote='d1owls4life' pid='14622943' dateline='1506527575']

(09-27-2017 10:25 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:29 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:20 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:17 AM)Ranger Wrote:  The persons who stood by and let him run the program into the ground (JK? Board? Leebron) are equally culpable.

+1000.

Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

Good to see you finally came around.

Not really here to seek the approval of the echo chamber. My hope is that instead of using the effort here, those who really want change will implore those in charge. While the department may read this place, the way to let them know you are pissed is through direct communication.
[/quote]

(09-27-2017 09:47 AM)picrig Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 08:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 07:39 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The coaches will always say it. I think Bailiff is trying to do something about it.

I question that, simply because it's been 11 years with the same mistakes made over and over but never corrected. How many times has Rice beaten Rice? When that happens, you're either coaching it or tolerating it. And I think he tolerates it.

Note that I'm not saying he coaches it. I'm saying he tolerates it, which is different but still a problem.

Owl69...I don't think I disagree with you that he tolerates it, but I guess I would nuance it or define what you mean a little more. If by tolerate you mean "DB is 'ok' with 11 years of the same mistakes," I probably disagree slightly.

I don't think Bailiff enjoys losing. Or is ok with the mistakes. Seems to me it's more likely he's just incapable of fixing them. There are plenty of problems in my life (and my job) that I'm aware of and know the solution but for one reason or another can't implement that solution. Or maybe there's a problem I see but don't know the solution and so can't fix. I'd tend more towards this w/Bailiff (given most still think he's a man of integrity as far as I can tell) than he just tolerates it.

Now, I agree that I wish he expressed his frustrations more, or showed more passion, etc, etc...all kind of amorphous things. I've just gotten to the point that I think Bailiff is incapable of fixing the problems that we've seen for 11 years. Some people just aren't cut out for a job.

I agree. And I think the point on this sub-topic is that most coaches don't get the opportunity to say "it's on me" so many times, for so long.

(09-27-2017 01:20 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:47 AM)picrig Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 08:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 07:39 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The coaches will always say it. I think Bailiff is trying to do something about it.

I question that, simply because it's been 11 years with the same mistakes made over and over but never corrected. How many times has Rice beaten Rice? When that happens, you're either coaching it or tolerating it. And I think he tolerates it.

Note that I'm not saying he coaches it. I'm saying he tolerates it, which is different but still a problem.

Owl69...I don't think I disagree with you that he tolerates it, but I guess I would nuance it or define what you mean a little more. If by tolerate you mean "DB is 'ok' with 11 years of the same mistakes," I probably disagree slightly.

I don't think Bailiff enjoys losing. Or is ok with the mistakes. Seems to me it's more likely he's just incapable of fixing them. There are plenty of problems in my life (and my job) that I'm aware of and know the solution but for one reason or another can't implement that solution. Or maybe there's a problem I see but don't know the solution and so can't fix. I'd tend more towards this w/Bailiff (given most still think he's a man of integrity as far as I can tell) than he just tolerates it.

Now, I agree that I wish he expressed his frustrations more, or showed more passion, etc, etc...all kind of amorphous things. I've just gotten to the point that I think Bailiff is incapable of fixing the problems that we've seen for 11 years. Some people just aren't cut out for a job.

I agree. And I think the point on this sub-topic is that most coaches don't get the opportunity to say "it's on me" so many times, for so long.

I agree. The coaches' lives must be hell right now, especially Bailiff's. He probably doesn't sleep. He knows it's slipping away. I mostly support him, but I've never been so disappointed as I was at Rice Stadium last Saturday. The sad thing is that all this could have been averted if he had made good hires after the 2013 championship. That's where it all fell apart if you ask me. The coaching and recruiting did a complete nose dive. And these new coaches should have been brought in after 2015. It's too little too late now. The athletics administrator should have taken control much sooner. Bailiff hung himself on this , and I'm sure he knows it. That's got to be painful. But anyway, I hope we have a miraculous season from here on out. I can't handle one more loss.

(09-27-2017 09:29 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

I have emailed them both in the past and on different occasions, had both respond. I agree that emailing them can help, but they really need to hear it from people who are frustrated, but have never reached out to them before. I started emailing Leebron about football 1/2 a decade ago (maybe more?). I try not to email too frequently, just because I don't want him to just ignore my emails. I keep it short, mainly because some of my early emails were very long.

(09-27-2017 01:43 PM)Ourland Wrote:  The sad thing is that all this could have been averted if he had made good hires after the 2013 championship. That's where it all fell apart if you ask me. The coaching and recruiting did a complete nose dive. And these new coaches should have been brought in after 2015. It's too little too late now. The athletics administrator should have taken control much sooner. Bailiff hung himself on this , and I'm sure he knows it. That's got to be painful. But anyway, I hope we have a miraculous season from here on out. I can't handle one more loss.

I think it was fairly obvious that Bailiff wasn't a great football coach even during and after 2013. At the time, I was convinced that he was decidedly average, based on my "black box" theory. But I agree 2008 and 2013 were his best opportunities to build the program. After 2013 he gave Edmondson a permanent promotion to OC. Which is, of course, demonstrative of one of Bailiff's weaknesses as a head coach, IMHO.

(09-27-2017 01:20 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:47 AM)picrig Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 08:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 07:39 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The coaches will always say it. I think Bailiff is trying to do something about it.

I question that, simply because it's been 11 years with the same mistakes made over and over but never corrected. How many times has Rice beaten Rice? When that happens, you're either coaching it or tolerating it. And I think he tolerates it.

Note that I'm not saying he coaches it. I'm saying he tolerates it, which is different but still a problem.

Owl69...I don't think I disagree with you that he tolerates it, but I guess I would nuance it or define what you mean a little more. If by tolerate you mean "DB is 'ok' with 11 years of the same mistakes," I probably disagree slightly.

I don't think Bailiff enjoys losing. Or is ok with the mistakes. Seems to me it's more likely he's just incapable of fixing them. There are plenty of problems in my life (and my job) that I'm aware of and know the solution but for one reason or another can't implement that solution. Or maybe there's a problem I see but don't know the solution and so can't fix. I'd tend more towards this w/Bailiff (given most still think he's a man of integrity as far as I can tell) than he just tolerates it.

Now, I agree that I wish he expressed his frustrations more, or showed more passion, etc, etc...all kind of amorphous things. I've just gotten to the point that I think Bailiff is incapable of fixing the problems that we've seen for 11 years. Some people just aren't cut out for a job.

I agree. And I think the point on this sub-topic is that most coaches don't get the opportunity to say "it's on me" so many times, for so long.

If 'it's on him' for the past two years then for the sake of his dignity and reputation he should have resigned last December.

(09-27-2017 01:57 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:29 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

I have emailed them both in the past and on different occasions, had both respond. I agree that emailing them can help, but they really need to hear it from people who are frustrated, but have never reached out to them before. I started emailing Leebron about football 1/2 a decade ago (maybe more?). I try not to email too frequently, just because I don't want him to just ignore my emails. I keep it short, mainly because some of my early emails were very long.

Totally agree 100%. Higher participation rate is vital.

(09-27-2017 01:57 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:29 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

I have emailed them both in the past and on different occasions, had both respond. I agree that emailing them can help, but they really need to hear it from people who are frustrated, but have never reached out to them before. I started emailing Leebron about football 1/2 a decade ago (maybe more?). I try not to email too frequently, just because I don't want him to just ignore my emails. I keep it short, mainly because some of my early emails were very long.

(09-27-2017 01:43 PM)Ourland Wrote:  The sad thing is that all this could have been averted if he had made good hires after the 2013 championship. That's where it all fell apart if you ask me. The coaching and recruiting did a complete nose dive. And these new coaches should have been brought in after 2015. It's too little too late now. The athletics administrator should have taken control much sooner. Bailiff hung himself on this , and I'm sure he knows it. That's got to be painful. But anyway, I hope we have a miraculous season from here on out. I can't handle one more loss.

I think it was fairly obvious that Bailiff wasn't a great football coach even during and after 2013. At the time, I was convinced that he was decidedly average, based on my "black box" theory. But I agree 2008 and 2013 were his best opportunities to build the program. After 2013 he gave Edmondson a permanent promotion to OC. Which is, of course, demonstrative of one of Bailiff's weaknesses as a head coach, IMHO.

Yeah, it's definitely on Bailiff. He should have beat the bushes looking for young and energetic coaches with promise. He went the easy route and promoted two old friends. It's sad what's happened. And he'll never be mistaken for a great coach. He's great with the student-athletes, but a very average coach. He depends greatly on his assistants.

(09-27-2017 01:57 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:29 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

I have emailed them both in the past and on different occasions, had both respond. I agree that emailing them can help, but they really need to hear it from people who are frustrated, but have never reached out to them before. I started emailing Leebron about football 1/2 a decade ago (maybe more?). I try not to email too frequently, just because I don't want him to just ignore my emails. I keep it short, mainly because some of my early emails were very long.

(09-27-2017 01:43 PM)Ourland Wrote:  The sad thing is that all this could have been averted if he had made good hires after the 2013 championship. That's where it all fell apart if you ask me. The coaching and recruiting did a complete nose dive. And these new coaches should have been brought in after 2015. It's too little too late now. The athletics administrator should have taken control much sooner. Bailiff hung himself on this , and I'm sure he knows it. That's got to be painful. But anyway, I hope we have a miraculous season from here on out. I can't handle one more loss.

I think it was fairly obvious that Bailiff wasn't a great football coach even during and after 2013. At the time, I was convinced that he was decidedly average, based on my "black box" theory. But I agree 2008 and 2013 were his best opportunities to build the program. After 2013 he gave Edmondson a permanent promotion to OC. Which is, of course, demonstrative of one of Bailiff's weaknesses as a head coach, IMHO.

As many here know, my last straw with Bailiff was immediately after the 2013 season the the debacle at the Liberty Bowl when instead of hiring a new, innovative OC to replace Reagan, he instead promoted an undeserving Edmundson. That was it for me.

(09-27-2017 02:09 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 01:57 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(09-27-2017 09:29 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  Seems like it is time for an extensive effort of communicating to Leebron and JK what needs to happen. I already sent them a bit of a nasty-gram last weekend. If what I expect to happen this season continues to happen, I plan on continuing the ping them. I'm curious if either will respond.

I have emailed them both in the past and on different occasions, had both respond. I agree that emailing them can help, but they really need to hear it from people who are frustrated, but have never reached out to them before. I started emailing Leebron about football 1/2 a decade ago (maybe more?). I try not to email too frequently, just because I don't want him to just ignore my emails. I keep it short, mainly because some of my early emails were very long.

(09-27-2017 01:43 PM)Ourland Wrote:  The sad thing is that all this could have been averted if he had made good hires after the 2013 championship. That's where it all fell apart if you ask me. The coaching and recruiting did a complete nose dive. And these new coaches should have been brought in after 2015. It's too little too late now. The athletics administrator should have taken control much sooner. Bailiff hung himself on this , and I'm sure he knows it. That's got to be painful. But anyway, I hope we have a miraculous season from here on out. I can't handle one more loss.

I think it was fairly obvious that Bailiff wasn't a great football coach even during and after 2013. At the time, I was convinced that he was decidedly average, based on my "black box" theory. But I agree 2008 and 2013 were his best opportunities to build the program. After 2013 he gave Edmondson a permanent promotion to OC. Which is, of course, demonstrative of one of Bailiff's weaknesses as a head coach, IMHO.

Yeah, it's definitely on Bailiff. He should have beat the bushes looking for young and energetic coaches with promise. He went the easy route and promoted two old friends. It's sad what's happened. And he'll never be mistaken for a great coach. He's great with the student-athletes, but a very average coach. He depends greatly on his assistants.

Please stop with the "average" coach line. In reality, for all the reasons I've proivded in past posts, he is a decidedly sub-par in-game, on-field football coach. There's nothing "average" about him and his record over the past 10 years; his inability to be even remotely competitive against any team ranked inside the Top 75, and his ability to win games only against teams ranked in bottom quartile of the FBS division.