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IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
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Wmufan715 Offline
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Post: #101
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
Let’s bump to see if this changes people’s minds. This was considered impossible when brought up in September.

Personally I think Lester himself is a good CEO of the program. However some of these assistants need to go.
12-03-2017 04:38 PM
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flushtheherd Offline
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Post: #102
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
First year coaches should always get a pass as long as they don’t compromise the integrity of the program.
12-03-2017 04:45 PM
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wmubroncopilot Offline
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Post: #103
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
Very few people said yes to this and I don't think many will change their minds now.

What I will agree with is that this staff is not of a high enough quality to be a consistent MAC power, much less G5. My suspicion, and I hope I'm wrong, is that Lester is too loyal to make these changes especially one year in.

What sucks about that is that the staff may well have looked better from the beginning if Lester had a bit more time to put it together.
12-03-2017 04:53 PM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #104
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
(12-03-2017 04:38 PM)Wmufan715 Wrote:  Let’s bump to see if this changes people’s minds. This was considered impossible when brought up in September.

Personally I think Lester himself is a good CEO of the program. However some of these assistants need to go.

What has Lester done to make you think he is a good leader of this team? He started by hiring this coaching staff. Anything positive there you see? He decided to change the rtb philosophy, and "let it ride", not because that had any real meaning, but because he wanted to change and be his own man. Wasn't the existing philosophy that the players all learned, endorsed, and had been following for years of tremendous success good enough? Fixing something that not only wasn't broke, but had worked better than anything in school history. Good leadership? Me thinks not.

Then as the season went on, and it was clear the game plans being utilized were not working, he held, sticking with everything he was doing poorly, rather than learning from clear mistakes, and modifying things in order to improve.

He also seemed to lose his players interest and focus. Lack of motivation was something many of us complained about. Lester kept smiling, but he players didn't seem to be enjoying what was happening.

I wish I saw things this year which led me to be optimistic for our future. I saw absolutely nothing whatsoever which gives me a good feeling about the prospects for our football program.

He ain't the guy I would have as the "CEO" for our team.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 05:02 PM by brovol.)
12-03-2017 05:00 PM
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flushtheherd Offline
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Post: #105
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
Thing is... PJ had more talent in year one then lucking into the ONE win he got... Takes time to root your system and build with your players. I can’t really say what I saw from Lester after year one... He was very cognizant of the problems during post games and never threw his players under the bus... I’ll give him some time to prove himself and trust he will run this team in the right direction as he grows as an HC.
12-03-2017 05:23 PM
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Stampede your face!! Offline
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Post: #106
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
(12-03-2017 05:23 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Thing is... PJ had more talent in year one then lucking into the ONE win he got... Takes time to root your system and build with your players. I can’t really say what I saw from Lester after year one... He was very cognizant of the problems during post games and never threw his players under the bus... I’ll give him some time to prove himself and trust he will run this team in the right direction as he grows as an HC.

I wouldn't say he never threw his guys under the bus, he pointed out Wassink in the Akron loss.
12-03-2017 05:32 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #107
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
Quote:He started by hiring this coaching staff. Anything positive there you see?

A seemingly good OC, from Indiana who could score well for once, where that wasn't one of their issues at all. Saw that as possibly better than our previous OC.

Quote:He decided to change the rtb philosophy, and "let it ride", not because that had any real meaning, but because he wanted to change and be his own man.

Not purely for that. WMU gave and was going to give the "Row the Boat" slogan over to Fleck, so no new coach should or would be using it anyway when it's carried on with PJ & the gang over in the B1G as their copyrighted slogan.

Quote:Wasn't the existing philosophy that the players all learned, endorsed, and had been following for years of tremendous success good enough?

It was. And I don't think Lester would disagree with it. From what he could see from the outside perspective, he tried to carry on as much as possible. But part of that philosophy isn't just a poster on the wall, and re-interating a canned phrase or two as almost every coach, good or bad will do... but how you Project it. PJ was great at that. That was the key thing. And to be able in different weeks have a speech to the team about improving in life & football and such. It's doing that and HOW you do that, that's key.

Lester doesn't seem like an Effective guy in that arena, but I'm not there -- he could be adequate and it's a 1st year thing that's bad (as it was with PJ) -- but yeah, you're not going to replace PJ's way of projecting and his persona sinking into the players with very many other coaches. And definitely Lester's not going to be on the same level in that dept. But do we need it at THAT level to be 8-4? No. But at the same time, I figured we'd be 7-5 (and was boo'd for that - lol).
12-03-2017 06:18 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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Post: #108
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
Fleck wanted RTB for Minnesota and paid WMU $ 50k for it. If you think it's THAT big a deal to our players, write out a $ 50k check, send it to Fleck and we can all start shouting 'Row the Boat' again. I don't think Fleck is impressing anyone up in Paul Bunyon land with that schtick anyway.

Given the circumstances with injuries and QB inexperience this season I think Coach Lester did enough. I expected 7-8 victories predicated on a normal number of injuries, then again most of you overestimated the OVERALL talent we had coming back. I said that last Spring and I say it again now.

Minnesota went from 8-4 and a Bowl Game to 5-7 and lots of excuses-and they have, according to most of you, an OUTSTANDING head coach and lots of talent returning this season.

You can't have it both ways.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 06:50 PM by BroncoPhilly.)
12-03-2017 06:48 PM
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wmubroncopilot Offline
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Post: #109
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
I don't believe Fleck is an outstanding head coach, I think he was able to recruit a team that outtalented his conference. He's not going to do that at Minnesota, though with good recruiting and a little luck he could mayyybe reach a title game.

That being said I think most of us would've been pretty dang happy with a three win dropoff, or a 37% drop off (an 8 win season) for that matter. Apples to oranges, sure, but you went there.
12-03-2017 06:55 PM
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GullLake Offline
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Post: #110
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
(09-19-2017 01:28 PM)Wmufan715 Wrote:  Starting to see projections that have the Broncos out of the bowl. Looks like the key games will be at Eastern and home vs Central.

If Broncos somehow miss a bowl would you want Lester out?

BTW I don't see how the team doesnt go at least 7-5. Split vs Central/Eastern and lose at NIU/Toledo. I do think Buffalo will be harder than previously expected on the road but should be a W.

I nominate this for "Most Dumb Post of the Year."
12-03-2017 06:58 PM
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Wmufan715 Offline
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Post: #111
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
(12-03-2017 06:58 PM)GullLake Wrote:  
(09-19-2017 01:28 PM)Wmufan715 Wrote:  Starting to see projections that have the Broncos out of the bowl. Looks like the key games will be at Eastern and home vs Central.

If Broncos somehow miss a bowl would you want Lester out?

BTW I don't see how the team doesnt go at least 7-5. Split vs Central/Eastern and lose at NIU/Toledo. I do think Buffalo will be harder than previously expected on the road but should be a W.

I nominate this for "Most Dumb Post of the Year."

And yet thy finished even below where I thought they would be. I don’t believe there is even a 1% chance he’ll be fired. It’s just a question of if you want him to be.
12-03-2017 07:12 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #112
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
My Expectations Coming In:
2-2 Non-Conf (W: Idaho, FCS; L: USC, MSU)

5-3 Conference:
Ball State - W (possible slip-up if good; they weren't coming into it)
@Buffalo - W (possible slip-up)
Akron - W (Homecoming; should-be win)
@EMU - W/L
CMU - W (possible slip-up; but we Should Win if we're comparable teams; it's at home)
Kent - W
@NIU - L (possible unlikely Yeah! win)
@Toledo - L

Basically I saw it as 5-3, MAYBE 6-2. With tons of injuries theoretically, sure 4-4 could happen.

But in the end, the Akron game -- no excuses. CMU game with that lead going into and getting settled into the 2nd half -- no excuses.

Between Akron, CMU, @EMU, @Buffalo -- I could see a loss, yes. But how they play determines it. We lost 2.

If we would have beat CMU -- we'd be tied with CMU -- and beating CMU would give us the nod to go to the Detroit Bowl. Stings. Bigtime.
12-03-2017 07:32 PM
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BuickBronco Offline
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Post: #113
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
Lester out? Some of you think this is a SEC program. Give me a break
12-04-2017 09:04 AM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #114
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
I don't think anyone believes Lester would literally be shown the door., regardless of record. I took it as more of a rhetorical question. Every coach will get 3 years minimum at the helm.

Given injuries - and maybe a few upperclassmen who couldn't make that culture change transition - I'm giving Lester a bit of a pass on Year 1. I think every coach deserves more than one year before a true assessment can be made.

At the end of Year 2... that's where judgments can really start being made, imo. Bare minimum, we simply cannot get shut out of the bowl season again.
12-04-2017 10:35 AM
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broncofan1 Offline
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Post: #115
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
(12-04-2017 10:35 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  I don't think anyone believes Lester would literally be shown the door., regardless of record. I took it as more of a rhetorical question. Every coach will get 3 years minimum at the helm.

Given injuries - and maybe a few upperclassmen who couldn't make that culture change transition - I'm giving Lester a bit of a pass on Year 1. I think every coach deserves more than one year before a true assessment can be made.

At the end of Year 2... that's where judgments can really start being made, imo. Bare minimum, we simply cannot get shut out of the bowl season again.

I agree with this 100%
12-04-2017 11:17 AM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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Post: #116
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
We need to stop firing coaches if they don't have instant success. Things can happen that nobody can control.

I've been watching Division 2 Hillsdale College football lately, because you can get the video of the games long after they've been played (something WMU should do). Hillsdale's Head Football Coach Keith Otterbein has been with the program for 16 YEARS. His OC and DC have been with Hillsdale Football for 19 YEARS. Sure, they've had some good years, but also some not so good years. The AD stuck with them over the years.

Their AD puts an emphasis on building good, solid programs-but also programs that lead their conference in GPA and players character. They're usually in the hunt for a conference title late in the season and they're always competitive with the top programs when they aren't champions.

Ok, I recognize this is Division 2, but there is something to be said for stability in the coaching ranks. I compare that with this site when half the forum is tearing Coach Lester apart on a regular basis because he only won 6 games with two freshman QB's, in his first season. He's entitled to at least 3 seasons to show progress for his program, IMO.
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 03:51 PM by BroncoPhilly.)
12-04-2017 03:43 PM
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Hoekjeness Offline
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Post: #117
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
When’s the last time WMU fired a football coach that didn’t have instant success?

Also, I could be wrong.. but I haven’t seen anyone here outright call for Lester’s head?

Criticism is okay. Not sure why that’s such a big deal, especially when we have the expectations that we do here now with the highest salary in the league.
12-04-2017 06:34 PM
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wmutkelaw Offline
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Post: #118
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
(12-04-2017 06:34 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  When’s the last time WMU fired a football coach that didn’t have instant success?

Also, I could be wrong.. but I haven’t seen anyone here outright call for Lester’s head?

Criticism is okay. Not sure why that’s such a big deal, especially when we have the expectations that we do here now with the highest salary in the league.

I think some were making not very veiled statements, exressing that they wished to see Coach Lester dismissed.

Criticism is okay...yes. PJ was criticized, some did not appreciate that criticism. Lester is criticized, some do not appreciate that criticism.

We must all peel back the many layers and see this for what it is...open debate.

I know I am guilty of stoking the flames from time to time...but I have come to realize that now that the season is concluded, and looking at all the factors (injuries/schedule/weather/etc) that determined WMUs success, that we have a lot to look forward to.

WMU is a great program, we have a good and moral coach who is committed to getting better.

Season 1 is over...now we are moving on to better things. Dwelling on past success will do nothing to fix the present. Time to move on...this is Lester's chance to lead. I don't know the man personally, but I have to believe that he wants WMU to be successful for more reasons than just increasing his exposure to the media and P5 teams. I hate to borrow from M, but Lester is a WMU man.

In the past, I have always enjoyed the seasons where we showed growth and perhaps over-performed. I am excited about next year, as I think the target is off WMUs back, yet the fire is still in the belly of the stake holders to see WMU be successful.
12-05-2017 06:18 AM
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flushtheherd Offline
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Post: #119
RE: IF WMU misses Bowl would you want Lester out?
Every ounce of criticism on this board of the current staff comes from a place that wants WMU to succeed... That is a known. We are all Bronco's here and we want the best out of our program. We got really used to being successful over the last 3 years and it hurts like pulling a nose hair that we seemed to so quickly take such a step backward...

Now lets look back... we really only showed success for a 3 year stint... peaked with a group that started 4 years go and apparently had nothing to fall back on with regard to full team continuity. Throw in a new system and new coaching staff and you are going to take a step backward... the size of the step backward is what concerns me right now. I could have handled this season had we pounded Akron into the ground, held on to beat CMU at home and even Lost to EMU after Wassink went down... the optics alone would have leant us to feeling MUCH better about the season... we would have been a 7 win Bowl lock... and we could have had some positives and a legit excuse (as much as you hate them) for the EMU loss.

But to lose at home to both Akron and a CMU team you were pounding into the ground before half... inexcusable. I will give this staff a flier for the first years as I have stated previously... but if we come out looking like we did this season... lack of energy on the sidelines, inability to adjust to keep up with the other teams adjustments, poor fundamentals... etc... I will be ready to move on from this current staff....
12-05-2017 09:40 AM
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