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(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

Jones did well his first two years (and you could see that I was in his corner). But it's past time to get to the NCAAs. Until he does so, the criticism is justified.

Nothing else will do at this point.

(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

You can turn that around! Some of you on here will never be critical of JJ no matter what he does!!!

(09-19-2017 11:50 AM)Spantheman34 Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

You can turn that around! Some of you on here will never be critical of JJ no matter what he does!!!

I think everyone on here has been critical of Jones (and Wilder) at some point.

(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

The very nature of the coaching business is predicated upon the notion of .... What have you done for me lately?

(09-19-2017 09:05 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 10:45 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 08:19 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I like our freshmen, but I don't expect them to be the solution yet.

Bobby Wilder does.

I hope it happens, just not going to bet on it.

(And if this freshman class makes that big of a difference, then either JJ hit the jackpot in 2017, or it is a reflection of what he has recruited up until now.)

I agree.

(09-19-2017 12:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

The very nature of the coaching business is predicated upon the notion of .... What have you done for me lately?

Retroactively speaking.....like "jones was only good because of Trey Freeman".

(09-19-2017 12:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 12:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

The very nature of the coaching business is predicated upon the notion of .... What have you done for me lately?

Retroactively speaking.....like "jones was only good because of Trey Freeman".

Yea that is one of the most ridiculous claims against JJ on this board. I agree with some of the other criticisms, but this doesn't make any sense.

(09-19-2017 02:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 12:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 12:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

The very nature of the coaching business is predicated upon the notion of .... What have you done for me lately?

Retroactively speaking.....like "jones was only good because of Trey Freeman".

Yea that is one of the most ridiculous claims against JJ on this board. I agree with some of the other criticisms, but this doesn't make any sense.

Jones is a decent coach, even better than I thought he would be, but Trey Freeman made him look better than he is. We'll see how this year goes, but he hasn't proven to be a great recruiter and he hasn't proven he's a "winner" either. I want him to succeed. I really do. But ODU can't keep carrying him as coach if we don't start getting back to the NCAAs. Kids we are recruiting today were in elementary school when we beat Notre Dame and were in the big dance. Others have said this, and I have to agree, if JJ doesn't make the tournament this year, and keeps his job, then ODU owes Jeff Capel a huge apology for firing him. Capel got us to two NCAAs in the amount of time JJ has been here.

(09-19-2017 12:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 12:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

The very nature of the coaching business is predicated upon the notion of .... What have you done for me lately?

Retroactively speaking.....like "jones was only good because of Trey Freeman".

I'd appreciate it if you didn't quote things like that in response to a post that I made as if it is something that I had said at some point in the past. It isn't. It should at least be clarified in your post.

Jones is a decent coach that seems to be a bit less than what we need as a recruiter. If he can bring in some young and talented big guys (not another 6'-7" center, or a career small forward to play out of position inside) then maybe one could say that he has turned the corner on that. We will have an answer on that soon enough. Regardless of any of that, he will still be held accountable to the axiom of ... What have you done for me lately? Same as pretty much any other coach would.

OT but CUSA news is ODU news....... Mitchell Robinson has left WKU. Reports are showing that he has withdrawn and will spend the year preparing for the draft

(09-19-2017 03:48 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 02:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 12:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 12:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  My guess is that Jones will be criticized either way. We play well; he should have done so and so. We do poorly, well, thats self explanatory. A small number of posters won't even give him credit for the success in the first 2-3 years.

The very nature of the coaching business is predicated upon the notion of .... What have you done for me lately?

Retroactively speaking.....like "jones was only good because of Trey Freeman".

Yea that is one of the most ridiculous claims against JJ on this board. I agree with some of the other criticisms, but this doesn't make any sense.

Jones is a decent coach, even better than I thought he would be, but Trey Freeman made him look better than he is. We'll see how this year goes, but he hasn't proven to be a great recruiter and he hasn't proven he's a "winner" either. I want him to succeed. I really do. But ODU can't keep carrying him as coach if we don't start getting back to the NCAAs. Kids we are recruiting today were in elementary school when we beat Notre Dame and were in the big dance. Others have said this, and I have to agree, if JJ doesn't make the tournament this year, and keeps his job, then ODU owes Jeff Capel a huge apology for firing him. Capel got us to two NCAAs in the amount of time JJ has been here.

LOL. Coaches have to game plan. Coaches have to develop talent. Coaches have to design a system to best utilize a player like Trey Freeman. But yea...you keep thinking that.

I don't get the argument that JJ is a bad recruiter? He's recruited spectacularly for 3/5 of the positions on the court. By contrast, BT (at best) recruited 2/5 of the positions on the court well. We have had VERY good PG, SG, and SF production under JJ. We have had average to below average production from our PF and average to above average production at C during his tenure. Conversely, BT had one star PG (Williamson), one star SG (Hunter), and two star SF (Finney and Bazemore) in 12 seasons. Granted, he regularly had star PF and C, but it was easy to shut them down because many BT teams didn't have shooters good enough to spread the floor and give the big men any room to operate.

I know people will knock this comparison by saying that BT was a bad recruiter. I'd counter that he's the most successful coach in ODU history and JJ is making a strong argument that he's already a better recruiter.

OUtside of his first year, Jones has recruited higher ranked guys.

-Freeman/Arledge/Douglas/Biberaj/Talley/Stith
-Stith/Caver/Pervier/Carver/Porter
-Kah/Green/Haynes
-Godwin/Hueit/McClinton/Kithcart/Pilavios


The biggest issue,imo, is the non development of the JUCO/transfer guys...Douglas, Pervier, Kay, Haynes. Talley derailed our season last year from a suspension (and poor play at times) standpoint. As most people have said, this year will tell a lot. I think there is talent to be top 3 in the conference at worst, but that assumes either Kah or Carver can be adequate as a "3rd" big off the bench and Green/Hueitt/Godwin can provide something (they don't have to be special). Offensively, we should have at least 4 guys on the court that can score at all times as opposed to 2-3 last year. As long as the defense can still be good, which is expected out of a Jones team.

They just posted pics from media day on Facebook. Brandan looks like he slimmed down a ton.

(09-20-2017 06:55 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 03:48 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 02:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 12:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 12:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  The very nature of the coaching business is predicated upon the notion of .... What have you done for me lately?

Retroactively speaking.....like "jones was only good because of Trey Freeman".

Yea that is one of the most ridiculous claims against JJ on this board. I agree with some of the other criticisms, but this doesn't make any sense.

Jones is a decent coach, even better than I thought he would be, but Trey Freeman made him look better than he is. We'll see how this year goes, but he hasn't proven to be a great recruiter and he hasn't proven he's a "winner" either. I want him to succeed. I really do. But ODU can't keep carrying him as coach if we don't start getting back to the NCAAs. Kids we are recruiting today were in elementary school when we beat Notre Dame and were in the big dance. Others have said this, and I have to agree, if JJ doesn't make the tournament this year, and keeps his job, then ODU owes Jeff Capel a huge apology for firing him. Capel got us to two NCAAs in the amount of time JJ has been here.

LOL. Coaches have to game plan. Coaches have to develop talent. Coaches have to design a system to best utilize a player like Trey Freeman. But yea...you keep thinking that.

Then how come we won when we had a superstar like Trey Freeman, and now that we don't have him, we don't win as much? JJ is the constant factor there. How come the Cavaliers sucked until Lebron came back? Because he was a superstar player. Its not like all of a sudden Cleveland's coach finally knew what he was doing.

(09-20-2017 09:02 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  OUtside of his first year, Jones has recruited higher ranked guys.

-Freeman/Arledge/Douglas/Biberaj/Talley/Stith
-Stith/Caver/Pervier/Carver/Porter
-Kah/Green/Haynes
-Godwin/Hueit/McClinton/Kithcart/Pilavios


The biggest issue,imo, is the non development of the JUCO/transfer guys...Douglas, Pervier, Kay, Haynes. Talley derailed our season last year from a suspension (and poor play at times) standpoint. As most people have said, this year will tell a lot. I think there is talent to be top 3 in the conference at worst, but that assumes either Kah or Carver can be adequate as a "3rd" big off the bench and Green/Hueitt/Godwin can provide something (they don't have to be special). Offensively, we should have at least 4 guys on the court that can score at all times as opposed to 2-3 last year. As long as the defense can still be good, which is expected out of a Jones team.

Freeman: Was already coming. JJ only gets a minor amount of credit.
Arledge: Good player. Transfer.
Douglas: Decent player. Transfer.
Biberaj: Love the guy. D3 transfer. Came to us, not recruited.
Talley: Great job recruiting by JJ. Good work.
Stith: Coaches son. Likely wouldn't be here otherwise.
-Stith: Coaches son. Likely wouldn't be here otherwise.
Caver: Great job recruiting by JJ. Good work.
Pervier: Finally lands a big guy and its this bust. Fail.
Carver: Glad we gave him a chance. Jury still out. JJ gets credit.
Porter: Good player. Transfer. But he had options, so JJ gets credit for filling the gap left by him not being able to recruit a good big freshman.
Kah: I'll give JJ credit for this one. All indications were he was going to be a good player and we snatched him away from some decent programs. Good job recruiting. Not so much developing the talent.
Green: All indications are that this was a fantastic job of recruiting by JJ.
Haynes: Again, plugging holes in the dyke, but JJ found the right transfer to fill the hole. Until he transferred out, and then transferred back in. So we'll see.

FWIW, Hueitt and Godwin sound very good and JJ did recruit those guys away from some other tempting offers, so I'd say great job recruiting. We'll see how they develop.

So thats 6 good freshman he has recruited in 5 seasons. 3 of which haven't played yet. Plus Carver. And one of those (Talley) has just transferred out. Caver was a good get.

5 decent/good transfers too, but transfers seem like desperation moves for when you haven't done a good job recruiting or unexpected personnel matters happen to the team. Or a local kid needs to come closer to home.

(09-22-2017 03:04 PM)monarx Wrote:  Stith: Coaches son. Likely wouldn't be here otherwise.
-Stith: Coaches son. Likely wouldn't be here otherwise.

Their dad wouldnt be here without JJ being the head coach. JJ got Bryant aboard, therefore he got both to ODU.

(09-22-2017 03:08 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(09-22-2017 03:04 PM)monarx Wrote:  Stith: Coaches son. Likely wouldn't be here otherwise.
-Stith: Coaches son. Likely wouldn't be here otherwise.

Their dad wouldnt be here without JJ being the head coach. JJ got Bryant aboard, therefore he got both to ODU.

Thats a decent point. Do you think JJ would have offered Stith the job without his two son though? If the answer is "yes" and I think it probably is because Bryant is good with or with Branden and BJ, then JJ got fortunate. Its not like he had to put a lot of effort into stealing them away to ODU.

(09-22-2017 03:04 PM)monarx Wrote:  5 decent/good transfers too, but transfers seem like desperation moves for when you haven't done a good job recruiting or unexpected personnel matters happen to the team. Or a local kid needs to come closer to home.

This may have been the case 10 years ago. Today, it's just a part of college basketball. If you aren't recruiting transfers, you are putting yourself at a serious disadvantage.

(09-22-2017 03:04 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(09-20-2017 09:02 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  OUtside of his first year, Jones has recruited higher ranked guys.

-Freeman/Arledge/Douglas/Biberaj/Talley/Stith
-Stith/Caver/Pervier/Carver/Porter
-Kah/Green/Haynes
-Godwin/Hueit/McClinton/Kithcart/Pilavios


The biggest issue,imo, is the non development of the JUCO/transfer guys...Douglas, Pervier, Kay, Haynes. Talley derailed our season last year from a suspension (and poor play at times) standpoint. As most people have said, this year will tell a lot. I think there is talent to be top 3 in the conference at worst, but that assumes either Kah or Carver can be adequate as a "3rd" big off the bench and Green/Hueitt/Godwin can provide something (they don't have to be special). Offensively, we should have at least 4 guys on the court that can score at all times as opposed to 2-3 last year. As long as the defense can still be good, which is expected out of a Jones team.

Freeman: Was already coming. JJ only gets a minor amount of credit.
Arledge: Good player. Transfer.
Douglas: Decent player. Transfer.
Biberaj: Love the guy. D3 transfer. Came to us, not recruited.
Talley: Great job recruiting by JJ. Good work.
Stith: Coaches son. Likely wouldn't be here otherwise.
-Stith: Coaches son. Likely wouldn't be here otherwise.
Caver: Great job recruiting by JJ. Good work.
Pervier: Finally lands a big guy and its this bust. Fail.
Carver: Glad we gave him a chance. Jury still out. JJ gets credit.
Porter: Good player. Transfer. But he had options, so JJ gets credit for filling the gap left by him not being able to recruit a good big freshman.
Kah: I'll give JJ credit for this one. All indications were he was going to be a good player and we snatched him away from some decent programs. Good job recruiting. Not so much developing the talent.
Green: All indications are that this was a fantastic job of recruiting by JJ.
Haynes: Again, plugging holes in the dyke, but JJ found the right transfer to fill the hole. Until he transferred out, and then transferred back in. So we'll see.

FWIW, Hueitt and Godwin sound very good and JJ did recruit those guys away from some other tempting offers, so I'd say great job recruiting. We'll see how they develop.

So thats 6 good freshman he has recruited in 5 seasons. 3 of which haven't played yet. Plus Carver. And one of those (Talley) has just transferred out. Caver was a good get.

5 decent/good transfers too, but transfers seem like desperation moves for when you haven't done a good job recruiting or unexpected personnel matters happen to the team. Or a local kid needs to come closer to home.

I take issue with your assessment of Douglas and Talley for obvious reasons.
I take issue with your assessment of Kah because JJ recruited someone who didn't fit into his system, and is now languishing on the bench even though he looks like he could be a solid player.