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Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #241
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 04:12 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  
Quote:As for dropping football, McKinsey made it pretty clear that the available options for doing that are pretty limited. Missouri Valley is probably the only way to do that and stay D-1, and the other option would be D-3.
But there are options. If we were not investing so much of our money in football, every other sport could really thrive and it would not matter where we were. There could even be options for a p5 conference in those sports if we did not have a football program.

Not really.

This is a fans discussion board, and most here come from a fan's perspective. But an athletic department is a multi-million business. The coaches are responsible for wins and losses, the AD is responsible for dollars and cents. That side of it is not well appreciated. As an Ad you have to balance on-field performance, administration and board expectations, input form donors and particularly big donors, and a number of other considerations.

Anybody who thinks that any P5 would be happy to take in a non-football member is either kidding or sadly misinformed.

The bottom line here is that we have to get basketball to make money. Once that happens, a lot of other issues get easier. Until it does, they don't.
09-17-2017 04:48 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #242
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 04:43 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  McKinsey was 15 years ago and a completely different world of college athletics.

And exactly which of those changes have made the situation facing Rice athletics easier? What options exist now that did not exist then?
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2017 04:57 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-17-2017 04:50 PM
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BufflOwl Offline
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Post: #243
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 06:27 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 04:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 04:43 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  McKinsey was 15 years ago and a completely different world of college athletics.

And exactly which of those changes have made the situation facing Rice athletics easier? What options exist now that did not exist then?

Who said anything about easier and why'd you'd nix the entire rest of my post to address one sentence?

But since you asked, since then, we've won a national championship in baseball and went to 3 straight college World Series after it. We won a conference championship in football and have been to several bowl games. We built a new basketball gym, soccer facility and football end zone facility. What that means. We've won! Against better competition, in recent memory we have been very good, drew good crowds and had our games broadcasted on actual TV stations. All of which did not exist before it. If it did we wouldn't of even had that study.

Oh and the dynamic you asked about there are more teams that make the playoffs in every sport, there is a playoff in football, we have IMG to sell Corporate sponsorships as a form of revenue, there are 4 layers of media rights oh and there is social media! That means a well managed department can actually control some of their own fate. The entire dynamic had changed since 2002 and will change even more in 5 years and that's why more and more schools are adding D1 football...not dropping it!! Hell nearly half the teams in our conference this year didn't exist during the McKinsey years.. Now they're beating us and you're saying no one can build athletic programs anymore? What the ****?!

We do not need to cite 15 entire year old studies that most agreed at the time we're a complete crock. We don't need to change college athletics or cheat or anything that's not Rice. We need inspired leaders who want to take Rice Athletics back to where we were 10 freaking years ago and then beyond it. And they need to do that only rather than padding resumes with nonesense logo changes, made up stats about nominally better revenue numbers and making sure everyone says nice things about them on a fan message board!
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2017 06:46 PM by BufflOwl.)
09-17-2017 06:35 PM
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Post: #244
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 03:38 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Both Kaarlgard and Bailiff need to be gone. Neither are serious about putting a proud product out there.

How can Bailiff win if his assistants get paid like $h1t, can't recruit anybody from JuCos to fill the roster gaps, and has terrible scheduling?

How can the players win with a leader who'd rather clap than coach, does not do anything innovative on either side of the ball, and does not hold his players accountable?

True that!
09-17-2017 08:09 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #245
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 06:35 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  Who said anything about easier and why'd you'd nix the entire rest of my post to address one sentence?

Umm, you stated that as if it were somehow invalidating McKinsey. That would imply that you see an easier path than the options that McKinsey presented. What is the other option that you see? What would you do?

Quote:But since you asked, since then, we've won a national championship in baseball and went to 3 straight college World Series after it. We won a conference championship in football and have been to several bowl games. We built a new basketball gym, soccer facility and football end zone facility. What that means. We've won! Against better competition, in recent memory we have been very good, drew good crowds and had our games broadcasted on actual TV stations. All of which did not exist before it. If it did we wouldn't of even had that study.

We actually won the baseball national championship before McKinsey. In fact, it appeared to a lot of people that the McKinsey mission was to find a satisfactory way to drop football but keep baseball at the level it was, since nobody really seemed willing to spend the political capital to dump a national championship program. And they pretty much concluded that there was not one. If some way has opened since then, what is it? If not, then why is McKinsey irrelevant?

The one example that i can think of is Wichita State. Can you think of another?

Quote:Oh and the dynamic you asked about there are more teams that make the playoffs in every sport, there is a playoff in football, we have IMG to sell Corporate sponsorships as a form of revenue, there are 4 layers of media rights oh and there is social media! That means a well managed department can actually control some of their own fate. The entire dynamic had changed since 2002 and will change even more in 5 years and that's why more and more schools are adding D1 football...not dropping it!! Hell nearly half the teams in our conference this year didn't exist during the McKinsey years.. Now they're beating us and you're saying no one can build athletic programs anymore? What the ****?!

And exactly how do those things create different options? And by the way, where am I saying that no one can build athletic programs? It can be done, but it has to be done within certain constraints. I agree that more schools are adding D1 football than dropping out. That should send a pretty strong message.

Quote:We do not need to cite 15 entire year old studies that most agreed at the time we're a complete crock. We don't need to change college athletics or cheat or anything that's not Rice. We need inspired leaders who want to take Rice Athletics back to where we were 10 freaking years ago and then beyond it. And they need to do that only rather than padding resumes with nonesense logo changes, made up stats about nominally better revenue numbers and making sure everyone says nice things about them on a fan message board!

I doubt that "most" agreed that it was a crock at the time. Most informed people with whom I talked thought McKinsey did a pretty good job. They told us that it was pretty much time to poop or get off the pot. That needed to be said. Unfortunately, we haven't done much to implement their recommendations.

We don't need to go back to were we were 10 years ago. We need to go somewhere that we have never been. I don't see the point to the logo changes. But overall, the athletic program is being run more like a business than it was 10 years ago. And that is a step in the right direction. Getting basketball to where it makes money would be a big step in the right direction. Getting a football coach with an approach that has a chance to work in our unique set of circumstances would be another.
09-17-2017 08:18 PM
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BufflOwl Offline
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Post: #246
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 08:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 06:35 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  Who said anything about easier and why'd you'd nix the entire rest of my post to address one sentence?

Umm, you stated that as if it were somehow invalidating McKinsey. That would imply that you see an easier path than the options that McKinsey presented. What is the other option that you see? What would you do?

Quote:But since you asked, since then, we've won a national championship in baseball and went to 3 straight college World Series after it. We won a conference championship in football and have been to several bowl games. We built a new basketball gym, soccer facility and football end zone facility. What that means. We've won! Against better competition, in recent memory we have been very good, drew good crowds and had our games broadcasted on actual TV stations. All of which did not exist before it. If it did we wouldn't of even had that study.

We actually won the baseball national championship before McKinsey. In fact, it appeared to a lot of people that the McKinsey mission was to find a satisfactory way to drop football but keep baseball at the level it was, since nobody really seemed willing to spend the political capital to dump a national championship program. And they pretty much concluded that there was not one. If some way has opened since then, what is it? If not, then why is McKinsey irrelevant?

The one example that i can think of is Wichita State. Can you think of another?

Quote:Oh and the dynamic you asked about there are more teams that make the playoffs in every sport, there is a playoff in football, we have IMG to sell Corporate sponsorships as a form of revenue, there are 4 layers of media rights oh and there is social media! That means a well managed department can actually control some of their own fate. The entire dynamic had changed since 2002 and will change even more in 5 years and that's why more and more schools are adding D1 football...not dropping it!! Hell nearly half the teams in our conference this year didn't exist during the McKinsey years.. Now they're beating us and you're saying no one can build athletic programs anymore? What the ****?!

And exactly how do those things create different options? And by the way, where am I saying that no one can build athletic programs? It can be done, but it has to be done within certain constraints. I agree that more schools are adding D1 football than dropping out. That should send a pretty strong message.

Quote:We do not need to cite 15 entire year old studies that most agreed at the time we're a complete crock. We don't need to change college athletics or cheat or anything that's not Rice. We need inspired leaders who want to take Rice Athletics back to where we were 10 freaking years ago and then beyond it. And they need to do that only rather than padding resumes with nonesense logo changes, made up stats about nominally better revenue numbers and making sure everyone says nice things about them on a fan message board!

I doubt that "most" agreed that it was a crock at the time. Most informed people with whom I talked thought McKinsey did a pretty good job. They told us that it was pretty much time to poop or get off the pot. That needed to be said. Unfortunately, we haven't done much to implement their recommendations.

We don't need to go back to were we were 10 years ago. We need to go somewhere that we have never been. I don't see the point to the logo changes. But overall, the athletic program is being run more like a business than it was 10 years ago. And that is a step in the right direction. Getting basketball to where it makes money would be a big step in the right direction. Getting a football coach with an approach that has a chance to work in our unique set of circumstances would be another.

Lol. You know our coaches are recruiting kids who weren't born when this study was launched? It's irrelevant. Turn it over. Move on. And stop defending this regime for being modestly better than utterly incompetent...which by the way is what you're claiming we were when the study was launched. You're contradicting yourself every post and the only thing you're leaving out is this Department lacks any leadership at all! Period. None.

We don't need options. We don't need perfect schedules. We don't need to go back and re-read an all along worthless study that said "Duh we gotta spend more money." And we really don't need new freaking logos. Leaders. Our department needs leaders. The Stanford guys clearly aren't that. That's it. I'll follow up after the great FIU game. Can't wait.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2017 09:42 PM by BufflOwl.)
09-17-2017 09:31 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #247
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 09:31 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  Lol. You know our coaches are recruiting kids who weren't born when this study was launched? It's irrelevant. Turn it over. Move on. And stop defending this regime for being modestly better than utterly incompetent...which by the way is what you're claiming we were when the study was launched. You're contradicting yourself every post on the only thing you're leaving out is this Department lacks any leadership at all!

Exactly how am I contradicting myself?

And exactly what is the relevance of the age of our recruits? We're recruiting 12-year-olds?

And since you are so brilliant, exactly what would you be doing?
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2017 09:38 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-17-2017 09:37 PM
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interwebowl Offline
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Post: #248
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
The reality is that we did not change a thing after that report. When you consider how much the board is spending on this clearly inferior and hopeless product, Rice sports fans need to encourage better choices. If we want D1 athletics to continue at Rice, then football has to go, period. Unconventional wisdom? Maybe, but I think that Rice athletics supporters would much rather see us competing for championships and national relevancy in all our women's sports, baseball, tennis, soccer and eventually men's hoops rather than continue on this path of bleeding every sport to keep football alive. I think the Shepherd school concert today drew more Rice people than our contingent at UH. It is simply not sustainable.

And some of you may recall the notion of everything but football being discussed last year and I believe our AD said he wanted all our teams in one conference. Translation if you don't take our football, you can't have the rest.
09-17-2017 09:45 PM
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Post: #249
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 09:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 09:31 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  Lol. You know our coaches are recruiting kids who weren't born when this study was launched? It's irrelevant. Turn it over. Move on. And stop defending this regime for being modestly better than utterly incompetent...which by the way is what you're claiming we were when the study was launched. You're contradicting yourself every post on the only thing you're leaving out is this Department lacks any leadership at all!

Exactly how am I contradicting myself?

And exactly what is the relevance of the age of our recruits? We're recruiting 12-year-olds?

And since you are so brilliant, exactly what would you be doing?

I'd hire you and Walt 04-cheers
09-17-2017 09:46 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #250
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-17-2017 09:46 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 09:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 09:31 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  Lol. You know our coaches are recruiting kids who weren't born when this study was launched? It's irrelevant. Turn it over. Move on. And stop defending this regime for being modestly better than utterly incompetent...which by the way is what you're claiming we were when the study was launched. You're contradicting yourself every post on the only thing you're leaving out is this Department lacks any leadership at all!
Exactly how am I contradicting myself?
And exactly what is the relevance of the age of our recruits? We're recruiting 12-year-olds?
And since you are so brilliant, exactly what would you be doing?
I'd hire you and Walt 04-cheers

So you don't have any real (non-sarcastic) ideas. Except to complain.
09-18-2017 12:55 AM
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Post: #251
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
Do we really need this type of back and forth in a game recap thread?
09-18-2017 02:51 AM
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Post: #252
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-18-2017 02:51 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Do we really need this type of back and forth in a game recap thread?

+1
09-18-2017 07:47 AM
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Post: #253
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-18-2017 12:55 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 09:46 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 09:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2017 09:31 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  Lol. You know our coaches are recruiting kids who weren't born when this study was launched? It's irrelevant. Turn it over. Move on. And stop defending this regime for being modestly better than utterly incompetent...which by the way is what you're claiming we were when the study was launched. You're contradicting yourself every post on the only thing you're leaving out is this Department lacks any leadership at all!
Exactly how am I contradicting myself?
And exactly what is the relevance of the age of our recruits? We're recruiting 12-year-olds?
And since you are so brilliant, exactly what would you be doing?
I'd hire you and Walt 04-cheers

So you don't have any real (non-sarcastic) ideas. Except to complain.

Not to banter with someone in a game thread about. Especially not one who uses that worthless report as the Rice Athletics holy document. Now I'm really done with this thread. I'll let you go back to telling everyone how business savvy this regime is cuz you buy their BS and everyone else can try to find something positive in that embarrassing outing.

For what it's worth I didn't think Tyner looked nearly as lost as Gleasman and the Defense's stay back 25 yards from the wideouts kept any balls from getting over our heads. That's good right?
09-18-2017 08:10 AM
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Post: #254
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-18-2017 02:51 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Do we really need this type of back and forth in a game recap thread?

Every thread becomes a Bailiff thread or a JK thread or an Admin thread these days.
09-18-2017 08:36 AM
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Post: #255
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-18-2017 08:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-18-2017 02:51 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Do we really need this type of back and forth in a game recap thread?

Every thread becomes a Bailiff thread or a JK thread or an Admin thread these days.

It replaced the Bailiff and Greenspan combo threads.
09-18-2017 09:38 AM
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Post: #256
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
My thoughts after watching the first half on TV was that I wished for once - just once - Rice could have an extended run where they were relevant in football, where they could actually line up, year after year, against a quality opponent or major rival, and, if not win, be competitive. 08 and 13 appear to be one-off outliers. Where they could go in and not crumble against a significant opponent. I'd love to show up to work on Monday and not get the looks of pity from my coworkers wanting to see how the Rice game went the Saturday before. I don't know what the answers are - is it more money to the program? Is it recruiting the JuCos? Is it lower academic standards a bit for athletes? But what I do know, is that what I've seen from the team in its losses this season has nothing to do (at least directly) with money - its a lack of focus and preparation. It is Rice beating Rice. And we won't beat ANYBODY playing that way. Period. And its been an overriding theme throughout DB's tenure. If nothing else, i think we need a change just to breathe some fresh air into this program. Fans are apathetic at best. I'm scared to see what the home attendance will be like on Friday.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2017 11:19 AM by Pimpa.)
09-18-2017 11:18 AM
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Post: #257
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-18-2017 08:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-18-2017 02:51 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Do we really need this type of back and forth in a game recap thread?

Every thread becomes a Bailiff thread or a JK thread or an Admin thread these days.

Good, because more people need to get woke to the fact that these three entities, in combination, are failing at their jobs and failing this great university. All our football games are essentially exhibition games anyway. Not that we'll ever be in danger of it, but we literally couldn't win a national championship even if we went 13-0. So what are we even doing still playing this sport, with no plan to get out of this ghettoized division? It demeans us. Sorry if these inconvenient truths intrude upon important discussions of how many DBs we should have in coverage or which freshmen should come off the bench.
09-18-2017 11:19 AM
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Post: #258
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
(09-18-2017 11:19 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(09-18-2017 08:36 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-18-2017 02:51 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Do we really need this type of back and forth in a game recap thread?

Every thread becomes a Bailiff thread or a JK thread or an Admin thread these days.

Good, because more people need to get woke to the fact that these three entities, in combination, are failing at their jobs and failing this great university. All our football games are essentially exhibition games anyway. Not that we'll ever be in danger of it, but we literally couldn't win a national championship even if we went 13-0. So what are we even doing still playing this sport, with no plan to get out of this ghettoized division? It demeans us. Sorry if these inconvenient truths intrude upon important discussions of how many DBs we should have in coverage or which freshmen should come off the bench.

It's all part and parcel. It will all be peaches and cream once we fire Bailiff. Looking forward to that.
09-18-2017 11:35 AM
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Post: #259
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
My thoughts on the game and my first visit to TDECU Stadium

1. In the past, I used to look upon Coog fans as a bit delusional in regard to the UH brand. Seeing the gameday atmosphere, the engagement of the students (who were packed into the endzone) and the talent on the field, they are so, so much closer to achieving a P5 invitation than Rice is. Hats off to UH and their fans for really stepping up their support for college football in this city.

2. Things on South Main have gotten so bad that we could barely fill in one section of fans. I myself got a free ticket. If I had not received that offer I would have watched on TV and not wasted the money on watching this team. JK and Leebron have to see this as a major problem. If they don't they're blind to the bigger problems facing Rice athletics.

3. I'm not sure we have a talent issue as much as a schematic/coaching issue with our team. I saw a team that has some good pieces but unfortunately doesn't have leadership that keeps the players accountable or players who want to raise their game to play better. On defense, our line seemed pretty solid but our secondary played way too soft - giving their QB time to pick us apart. Our running game was poorly called. Jet sweep left followed by jet sweep right is really easy to defend in high school let alone college. The passing game had terrible route patterns. I recall on one play that all 4 receivers had short stop routes, allowing UH defenders to easily cover their men leaving Tyner no one to throw to. Even some small things on special teams - the kickoff returner moving backward and bobbling the kickoff cost us precious yards. This is a poorly coached team overall and could be capable of more. That's a real shame.
09-18-2017 12:06 PM
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Post: #260
RE: Rice @ Houston (9/16) game thread
I'm going to close this thread since we're no longer talking about the game. Feel free to start a new thread to discuss the future of the program.
09-18-2017 02:30 PM
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