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ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #221
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(08-28-2018 11:17 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(08-28-2018 11:11 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  Had a long response about the follies of the American admissions system, society's views of said system, and how dumb I find that universities are perceived "better" based on high school GPAs and other petty metrics, but ultimately:

Education shouldn't be a particularly elitist process. Anyone who is willing to learn deserves a reputable education and I'm proud ODU serves a mission that "higher ranked" schools have ignored for much too long.

Anyone who works has experienced the UVA grad that never gets it, and the SUNY-Potsdam grad that does.

So you think they should admit 100% of the students that apply no matter what they did in HS?

Not sure he said that. He is just saying that to judge a school based on who they admit, and based on HS GPA's that are weighted and inflated to ensure that almost 2/3 of HS graduates have a B average or better. Is a bit ridiculous. ODU fills a niche in the state that allows good students an opportunity to get an excellent education. When I worked in the admission office, we had more Valedictorian's and Salutatorian's on campus than any other school in Virginia, but we also admitted kids with quite average GPA's most of whom were very successful.
08-29-2018 08:42 AM
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bigblueodu Offline
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Post: #222
ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
This is kind of a big deal where I work.


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09-05-2018 08:18 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #223
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-05-2018 08:18 AM)bigblueodu Wrote:  This is kind of a big deal where I work.



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I find this military discount campaign interesting. I support our military and am thankful for their service. However, I work in higher ed marketing, and just had a meeting with our head Military Engagement (recruiter) yesterday. I specifically asked him if tuition costs were a major factor for military choosing a school or program, and he said not really. With GI Bill money readily available, and in-state tuition available for military no matter what state they are in, that tuition costs were really not a factor.

He emphasized academic reputation, specific military support, campus culture, the type of people you would be in class with (ie: not all military, diversity of culture and careers), potential network, flexibility if you aren't in your transition out period and geographic location. All were more important than cost.

For that reason, I wonder if ODU is just leaving needed money on the table with this. If the military people are not choosing schools based on tuition, we likely don't see an increase in numbers due to this. It cant hurt in any way other than financially, and may generate some good will and press amongst the target audience however. I just wonder if its worth it and if ODU will see the results it expects.
09-05-2018 08:49 AM
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bigblueodu Offline
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Post: #224
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
I think it depends on the branch of the military. Air Force tuition assistance now fully pays for odu undergraduate tuition so airmen can save their GI Bill for graduate work or transfer it to family members.

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09-05-2018 10:43 AM
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GhentFan Offline
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Post: #225
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-05-2018 08:49 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-05-2018 08:18 AM)bigblueodu Wrote:  This is kind of a big deal where I work.



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I find this military discount campaign interesting. I support our military and am thankful for their service. However, I work in higher ed marketing, and just had a meeting with our head Military Engagement (recruiter) yesterday. I specifically asked him if tuition costs were a major factor for military choosing a school or program, and he said not really. With GI Bill money readily available, and in-state tuition available for military no matter what state they are in, that tuition costs were really not a factor.

He emphasized academic reputation, specific military support, campus culture, the type of people you would be in class with (ie: not all military, diversity of culture and careers), potential network, flexibility if you aren't in your transition out period and geographic location. All were more important than cost.

For that reason, I wonder if ODU is just leaving needed money on the table with this. If the military people are not choosing schools based on tuition, we likely don't see an increase in numbers due to this. It cant hurt in any way other than financially, and may generate some good will and press amongst the target audience however. I just wonder if its worth it and if ODU will see the results it expects.

I helped with some one of the guys that was putting forward the discount for active duty. The idea was that the price does matter for active duty in terms of not having to pay extra outside of the tuition assistance provided by the military for a class.

As for GI Bill users, you are correct in that price really doesn't matter unless it's a private school and yellow ribbon doesn't cover any additional costs.
09-06-2018 03:40 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #226
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-06-2018 03:40 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  
(09-05-2018 08:49 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-05-2018 08:18 AM)bigblueodu Wrote:  This is kind of a big deal where I work.



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I find this military discount campaign interesting. I support our military and am thankful for their service. However, I work in higher ed marketing, and just had a meeting with our head Military Engagement (recruiter) yesterday. I specifically asked him if tuition costs were a major factor for military choosing a school or program, and he said not really. With GI Bill money readily available, and in-state tuition available for military no matter what state they are in, that tuition costs were really not a factor.

He emphasized academic reputation, specific military support, campus culture, the type of people you would be in class with (ie: not all military, diversity of culture and careers), potential network, flexibility if you aren't in your transition out period and geographic location. All were more important than cost.

For that reason, I wonder if ODU is just leaving needed money on the table with this. If the military people are not choosing schools based on tuition, we likely don't see an increase in numbers due to this. It cant hurt in any way other than financially, and may generate some good will and press amongst the target audience however. I just wonder if its worth it and if ODU will see the results it expects.

I helped with some one of the guys that was putting forward the discount for active duty. The idea was that the price does matter for active duty in terms of not having to pay extra outside of the tuition assistance provided by the military for a class.

As for GI Bill users, you are correct in that price really doesn't matter unless it's a private school and yellow ribbon doesn't cover any additional costs.

That makes sense, and apparently ODU is already seeing some results so thats good. Full disclosure, I deal more with graduate school marketing, and that was what the military engagement guy and I were discussing at the time. That may make a difference.
09-06-2018 04:07 PM
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bigblueodu Offline
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Post: #227
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-06-2018 04:07 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-06-2018 03:40 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  
(09-05-2018 08:49 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-05-2018 08:18 AM)bigblueodu Wrote:  This is kind of a big deal where I work.



Sent from my SM-G965U using CSNbbs mobile app

I find this military discount campaign interesting. I support our military and am thankful for their service. However, I work in higher ed marketing, and just had a meeting with our head Military Engagement (recruiter) yesterday. I specifically asked him if tuition costs were a major factor for military choosing a school or program, and he said not really. With GI Bill money readily available, and in-state tuition available for military no matter what state they are in, that tuition costs were really not a factor.

He emphasized academic reputation, specific military support, campus culture, the type of people you would be in class with (ie: not all military, diversity of culture and careers), potential network, flexibility if you aren't in your transition out period and geographic location. All were more important than cost.

For that reason, I wonder if ODU is just leaving needed money on the table with this. If the military people are not choosing schools based on tuition, we likely don't see an increase in numbers due to this. It cant hurt in any way other than financially, and may generate some good will and press amongst the target audience however. I just wonder if its worth it and if ODU will see the results it expects.

I helped with some one of the guys that was putting forward the discount for active duty. The idea was that the price does matter for active duty in terms of not having to pay extra outside of the tuition assistance provided by the military for a class.

As for GI Bill users, you are correct in that price really doesn't matter unless it's a private school and yellow ribbon doesn't cover any additional costs.

That makes sense, and apparently ODU is already seeing some results so thats good. Full disclosure, I deal more with graduate school marketing, and that was what the military engagement guy and I were discussing at the time. That may make a difference.

I do not believe that the new tuition cost for active duty has changed at the graduate level. Surprisingly there are a lot of kids around the country that have heard of ODU that have not heard of UMUC or St Leo. So when I mention they are now on par with tuition I often get an eyebrow raise response.
09-07-2018 09:42 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #228
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
GOOD NEWS! ODU snuck back into the top tier of the US News rankings for national universities. We are ranked 215 nationally and have top 200 ranked business and engineering programs.

Of note, ODU ranks better than Boise St, FAU, GaSo, Liberty (though they're gaining and ranked just outside in the 230-301 rankings), La Tech, Memphis, UNLV, UNT, So. Miss, UTEP and UTSA. We are also very close but just behind ECU (194), UNCC(194), UNCG (201).

NOT GREAT NEWS. GMU:132, UAB:157, VCU:157, FIU: 187, GSU:187 Also bad: somehow VCU beats us in engineering rankings and business rankings. I expected nursing and art, certainly not engineering.

CRAZY NEWS: Regent University cracks the national rankings and leapfrogs ODU (sound familiar) coming in at a #201 national ranking.

Now please ODU, capitalize upon this. Its an opportunity to change the perception of the school. ODU is now literally one of Virginia's top tier public research universities. Sure, there are others, but we are included and thats good. Let people know. Position ODU as Coastal Virginia's top tier research university and run with it. And act like it. Its the coastal part that is the differentiator from VCU, its the research and "public" that differentiates us from Regent. We blew the chance to hype this up last time. ODU should have stickers made, T shirts, cake and cookies or whatever for the students and faculty. Celebrate this. There should be articles in the paper and mentions on the news. Billboards, mentions in all marketing materials, Special mailings to high school guidance counselors et. This is just the type of thing that can build student pride and engagement as well as help in student (and athlete) recruiting. Just do it. I'll be writing Broderick a letter of congratulations so he gets some positive encouragement about this.
09-10-2018 04:11 PM
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MonarchsWon Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-10-2018 04:11 PM)monarx Wrote:  GOOD NEWS! ODU snuck back into the top tier of the US News rankings for national universities. We are ranked 215 nationally and have top 200 ranked business and engineering programs.

Of note, ODU ranks better than Boise St, FAU, GaSo, Liberty (though they're gaining and ranked just outside in the 230-301 rankings), La Tech, Memphis, UNLV, UNT, So. Miss, UTEP and UTSA. We are also very close but just behind ECU (194), UNCC(194), UNCG (201).

NOT GREAT NEWS. GMU:132, UAB:157, VCU:157, FIU: 187, GSU:187 Also bad: somehow VCU beats us in engineering rankings and business rankings. I expected nursing and art, certainly not engineering.

CRAZY NEWS: Regent University cracks the national rankings and leapfrogs ODU (sound familiar) coming in at a #201 national ranking.

Now please ODU, capitalize upon this. Its an opportunity to change the perception of the school. ODU is now literally one of Virginia's top tier public research universities. Sure, there are others, but we are included and thats good. Let people know. Position ODU as Coastal Virginia's top tier research university and run with it. And act like it. Its the coastal part that is the differentiator from VCU, its the research and "public" that differentiates us from Regent. We blew the chance to hype this up last time. ODU should have stickers made, T shirts, cake and cookies or whatever for the students and faculty. Celebrate this. There should be articles in the paper and mentions on the news. Billboards, mentions in all marketing materials, Special mailings to high school guidance counselors et. This is just the type of thing that can build student pride and engagement as well as help in student (and athlete) recruiting. Just do it. I'll be writing Broderick a letter of congratulations so he gets some positive encouragement about this.

EXACTLY RIGHT
09-10-2018 07:34 PM
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oduengineer Offline
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Post: #230
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-10-2018 04:11 PM)monarx Wrote:  GOOD NEWS! ODU snuck back into the top tier of the US News rankings for national universities. We are ranked 215 nationally and have top 200 ranked business and engineering programs.

Of note, ODU ranks better than Boise St, FAU, GaSo, Liberty (though they're gaining and ranked just outside in the 230-301 rankings), La Tech, Memphis, UNLV, UNT, So. Miss, UTEP and UTSA. We are also very close but just behind ECU (194), UNCC(194), UNCG (201).

NOT GREAT NEWS. GMU:132, UAB:157, VCU:157, FIU: 187, GSU:187 Also bad: somehow VCU beats us in engineering rankings and business rankings. I expected nursing and art, certainly not engineering.

CRAZY NEWS: Regent University cracks the national rankings and leapfrogs ODU (sound familiar) coming in at a #201 national ranking.

Now please ODU, capitalize upon this. Its an opportunity to change the perception of the school. ODU is now literally one of Virginia's top tier public research universities. Sure, there are others, but we are included and thats good. Let people know. Position ODU as Coastal Virginia's top tier research university and run with it. And act like it. Its the coastal part that is the differentiator from VCU, its the research and "public" that differentiates us from Regent. We blew the chance to hype this up last time. ODU should have stickers made, T shirts, cake and cookies or whatever for the students and faculty. Celebrate this. There should be articles in the paper and mentions on the news. Billboards, mentions in all marketing materials, Special mailings to high school guidance counselors et. This is just the type of thing that can build student pride and engagement as well as help in student (and athlete) recruiting. Just do it. I'll be writing Broderick a letter of congratulations so he gets some positive encouragement about this.

Excellent post! Thanks for the information.
09-10-2018 08:50 PM
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Mr.BigBlue Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
VCU has made significant investments in Engineering has over the last 5 years including a new Dean that is frankly incredible. She knows her stuff and has revamped the entire student experience for the college of Engineering. Their focus on Biomed, Chemistry, Computer, and Mechanical/aerospace/ocean is paying off. Their faculty bring in huge research $ compared to ours.
09-11-2018 10:49 AM
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monarx Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-11-2018 10:49 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  VCU has made significant investments in Engineering has over the last 5 years including a new Dean that is frankly incredible. She knows her stuff and has revamped the entire student experience for the college of Engineering. Their focus on Biomed, Chemistry, Computer, and Mechanical/aerospace/ocean is paying off. Their faculty bring in huge research $ compared to ours.

What is stopping ODU from doing the same thing? Why haven’t we already? We had the better engineering program for a long time didn’t we?
09-11-2018 12:54 PM
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-11-2018 12:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 10:49 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  VCU has made significant investments in Engineering has over the last 5 years including a new Dean that is frankly incredible. She knows her stuff and has revamped the entire student experience for the college of Engineering. Their focus on Biomed, Chemistry, Computer, and Mechanical/aerospace/ocean is paying off. Their faculty bring in huge research $ compared to ours.

What is stopping ODU from doing the same thing? Why haven’t we already? We had the better engineering program for a long time didn’t we?

Still do.
09-11-2018 01:05 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
Really happy to see this was added as a metric. I think it tells you more about the school than high school GPA or SAT scores do;

09-17-2018 08:12 AM
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monarx Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-11-2018 01:05 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 12:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 10:49 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  VCU has made significant investments in Engineering has over the last 5 years including a new Dean that is frankly incredible. She knows her stuff and has revamped the entire student experience for the college of Engineering. Their focus on Biomed, Chemistry, Computer, and Mechanical/aerospace/ocean is paying off. Their faculty bring in huge research $ compared to ours.

What is stopping ODU from doing the same thing? Why haven’t we already? We had the better engineering program for a long time didn’t we?

Still do.

Perhaps in reality, but not in perception... at least by the US News & World Report and all of its readers.
09-17-2018 08:24 AM
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cmett003 Online
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-17-2018 08:24 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 01:05 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 12:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 10:49 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  VCU has made significant investments in Engineering has over the last 5 years including a new Dean that is frankly incredible. She knows her stuff and has revamped the entire student experience for the college of Engineering. Their focus on Biomed, Chemistry, Computer, and Mechanical/aerospace/ocean is paying off. Their faculty bring in huge research $ compared to ours.

What is stopping ODU from doing the same thing? Why haven’t we already? We had the better engineering program for a long time didn’t we?

Still do.

Perhaps in reality, but not in perception... at least by the US News & World Report and all of its readers.

"* Best Undergraduate Engineering Program". Read the article.
09-17-2018 08:28 AM
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monarx Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-17-2018 08:28 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(09-17-2018 08:24 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 01:05 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 12:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 10:49 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  VCU has made significant investments in Engineering has over the last 5 years including a new Dean that is frankly incredible. She knows her stuff and has revamped the entire student experience for the college of Engineering. Their focus on Biomed, Chemistry, Computer, and Mechanical/aerospace/ocean is paying off. Their faculty bring in huge research $ compared to ours.

What is stopping ODU from doing the same thing? Why haven’t we already? We had the better engineering program for a long time didn’t we?

Still do.

Perhaps in reality, but not in perception... at least by the US News & World Report and all of its readers.

"* Best Undergraduate Engineering Program". Read the article.

I did, we are considered amongst the best. Thats good. You said we still have the better program compared to VCU... that is not true according to US News. They are ranked higher numerically at 116 while ODU is 146. We are both considered among the best.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2018 08:59 AM by monarx.)
09-17-2018 08:30 AM
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-17-2018 08:30 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-17-2018 08:28 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(09-17-2018 08:24 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 01:05 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 12:54 PM)monarx Wrote:  What is stopping ODU from doing the same thing? Why haven’t we already? We had the better engineering program for a long time didn’t we?

Still do.

Perhaps in reality, but not in perception... at least by the US News & World Report and all of its readers.

"* Best Undergraduate Engineering Program". Read the article.

I did, we are considered amongst the best. Thats good. You said we still have the better program compared to VCU... that is not true according to US News. They are ranked higher numerically at 116 while ODU is 146. We are both considered among the best.
They are higher rated than us. They are also bringing in FAR more research $ and they are winning many more research proposals. Their professors are much more engaged and highly regarded by their Peers. Also, their Dean is a leader in the technical Engineering community not Engineering Education community. She came from Georgia Tech and is very proactive in ensuring VCU is working on new challenging problems, offering the newest and SOA relevant course offerings, and providing experiential learning opportunities for their students. We have a lot of rebuilding to do. Right now ODU seems more interested in focusing on Diversity of their engineering student body vs growing the academic and quality of professors, research, and course offerings.
09-18-2018 11:36 AM
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MonarchsWon Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-18-2018 11:36 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(09-17-2018 08:30 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-17-2018 08:28 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(09-17-2018 08:24 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 01:05 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  Still do.

Perhaps in reality, but not in perception... at least by the US News & World Report and all of its readers.

"* Best Undergraduate Engineering Program". Read the article.

I did, we are considered amongst the best. Thats good. You said we still have the better program compared to VCU... that is not true according to US News. They are ranked higher numerically at 116 while ODU is 146. We are both considered among the best.
They are higher rated than us. They are also bringing in FAR more research $ and they are winning many more research proposals. Their professors are much more engaged and highly regarded by their Peers. Also, their Dean is a leader in the technical Engineering community not Engineering Education community. She came from Georgia Tech and is very proactive in ensuring VCU is working on new challenging problems, offering the newest and SOA relevant course offerings, and providing experiential learning opportunities for their students. We have a lot of rebuilding to do. Right now ODU seems more interested in focusing on Diversity of their engineering student body vs growing the academic and quality of professors, research, and course offerings.

Exactly. Until academic excellence is the goal - we will lose long-term.
09-19-2018 02:08 PM
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