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ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-12-2017 09:33 PM)odumon84 Wrote:  Some of the above posts are the most inane in the history of this board and frankly embarrasses me to be an Old Dominion alum.First, I graduated from the School of Arts and Letters ,I had no interest in cleaning teeth or inspecting bridges, the thinly veiled racism of "drain the swamp " is revolting and , yes I'm over 50 and know the costs of higher education my children graduated from the University of South Carolina and attend UNC

Actually it was pretty damn racist. The irony that "draining the swamp" and not caring about diversity would mean a lot of black student-athletes wouldn't be at ODU.
09-13-2017 06:35 AM
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Mr.BigBlue Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 06:35 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 09:33 PM)odumon84 Wrote:  Some of the above posts are the most inane in the history of this board and frankly embarrasses me to be an Old Dominion alum.First, I graduated from the School of Arts and Letters ,I had no interest in cleaning teeth or inspecting bridges, the thinly veiled racism of "drain the swamp " is revolting and , yes I'm over 50 and know the costs of higher education my children graduated from the University of South Carolina and attend UNC

Actually it was pretty damn racist. The irony that "draining the swamp" and not caring about diversity would mean a lot of black student-athletes wouldn't be at ODU.

That doesn't stop diverse Athletes from attending UVA, JMU, VT who all have virtually NO racial diversity. Those Universities do not look like the general population...why ? As a matter of fact ...they get more money from the state than they need which helps bring in Athletes because of improved facilities and other benefits. UVA has a $2B slush fund that was built with State money on top of a $6B endowment. Time to redistribute that wealth to those Universities that are upholding the diversity and inclusion approach to admission. Do you think UVA or the State would do that ? Hell no because they only talk about or raise diversity and inclusion issues when it benefits them. No excuse for the state not to mandate UVA, JMU, and VT to increase their diversity demographics or have their funding slashed. Don't hold your breadth..... What a bunch of hypocrites. Kudos to ODU because we are now a Minority Serving Institution. Lets see if that helps us. We seem to be priding ourselves on diversity and inclusion potentially at the expense of our core mission which is to educate and produce quality graduates. Again Diversity and Inclusion is awesome and the right thing to do provided it boosts the Academic profile and income coming into the University. Thus far the results don't show that.
09-13-2017 06:56 AM
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GhentFan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-12-2017 09:33 PM)odumon84 Wrote:  Some of the above posts are the most inane in the history of this board and frankly embarrasses me to be an Old Dominion alum.First, I graduated from the School of Arts and Letters ,I had no interest in cleaning teeth or inspecting bridges, the thinly veiled racism of "drain the swamp " is revolting and , yes I'm over 50 and know the costs of higher education my children graduated from the University of South Carolina and attend UNC

I'm not dumping on your degree. I'm just pointing out that things have changed and the schools degree offerings should change with it.
Look at this article from 2014 about robots writing news articles,...2014!

http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/10/meet-the-r...m-4792284/

2015 article discusses pharmacists, lawyers and again journalists
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/3-wh...dy-better/

The lawyer thing sound interesting?
https://venturebeat.com/2016/06/27/donot...awyer-bot/

Here is the link to the chat bot. https://donotpay-search-master.herokuapp.com/
The coder has already added equifax stuff so you can sue them outside of the class-action suit.


There are programs that ODU could cut now and use the resources to improve other programs in the University. If not cutting outright, scaling back on some of them.
09-13-2017 07:09 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-12-2017 09:11 PM)ODU2017 Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 08:47 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  The real issue is that a college degree has been totally de-valued by the flood of college grads into the market and at the same time the price of a college education has sky-rocketed (in part because of athletic fees).

This is totally unsustainable and there is no easy answer here because time after the college grads are coming out into the real world with no work experience, no great opportunities and insane amounts of student debt. You can deny it if you want but it's a real issue that must be addressed. Many of the old timers who don't want to hear this just do not understand the difference between today's work force entrance wages, the job market and the staggering cost of an education none of which are relatable to anything anyone over 50 ever experienced.
I agree but that should make ODU more attractive to applicants. The shipyard and other defense related employers are always hiring ODU grads. Besides that I know several students/alumni working for Norfolk Southern or other private companies in the area. The College of Engineering advertises local career fairs, recruiting events and internships with great frequency.

How many entities employ greater than 100 people in the greater Blacksburg area? How many VT students have internships or entry level positions year round?

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Exactly, this is our key discriminator and I never see it in the marketing.
09-13-2017 07:20 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-12-2017 09:33 PM)odumon84 Wrote:  Some of the above posts are the most inane in the history of this board and frankly embarrasses me to be an Old Dominion alum.First, I graduated from the School of Arts and Letters ,I had no interest in cleaning teeth or inspecting bridges, the thinly veiled racism of "drain the swamp " is revolting and , yes I'm over 50 and know the costs of higher education my children graduated from the University of South Carolina and attend UNC

Thinly veiled racism? Come on man, that spiel has run its course like a cheap 55 year old hooker. Not to mention, most of these people are white.

http://odu.edu/about/orgchart
09-13-2017 07:25 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-12-2017 10:56 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 10:33 PM)monarx Wrote:  At least we are cheap and have lots of diversity. That seems to be the highest priority.

There is no such thing as "cheap" college anymore. There are only parents with higher means who can afford to send their kids and not saddle them with debt from the very beginning of their adult lives.

But sure, shoot the messenger, its this boards forte.

Exactly, "cheap" is relative. Pay your way is over.
09-13-2017 07:28 AM
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GhentFan Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 07:28 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 10:56 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 10:33 PM)monarx Wrote:  At least we are cheap and have lots of diversity. That seems to be the highest priority.

There is no such thing as "cheap" college anymore. There are only parents with higher means who can afford to send their kids and not saddle them with debt from the very beginning of their adult lives.

But sure, shoot the messenger, its this boards forte.

Exactly, "cheap" is relative. Pay your way is over.

How about free?

https://www.amazon.com/Completely-FREE-C...ee+college

http://affordableschools.net/20-tuition-free-colleges/

https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/ba/deg...istration/

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/10/21/a...-free-mba/
09-13-2017 09:01 AM
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AimHigh Online
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
I paid my way and commuted. Worked full time and was a weekend warrior. I don't think this is possible to do in today's time. It would be rough for a commuter to work full time and to earn enough to pay their way every semester now. I want to say it was around $125 to $150 a credit hour back then now it's $350+ a credit hour.
09-13-2017 09:15 AM
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Sidewinder Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
For a few years now, some have warned about the "education bubble" bursting. Maybe this is the start of it? I don't think we'll see a sudden burst of a bubble soon, but no doubt people are looking for new ways to get an education. I expect this trend to accelerate in the future.

Part of what fuels college enrollment is the realization that most employers will not consider anyone without a degree, even though they couldn't care less what your major was (in other words, what you learned). So why the BA/BS degree requirement? Because it's sort of a signal that says you are able to complete a rigorous process. I knew many in college who were there for this reason. They had the feeling that it didn't matter what they learned, only that they completed a degree. Shortly after I graduated, I was wandering around a car dealer's lot, and a salesman approached me. Turns out that he had just graduated from W&M. Do you really need a bachelor's degree to sell cars? The notion that you attend college to acquire specific knowledge in something you need to know for a career (engineering, accounting, nursing) doesn't apply to many (maybe the majority) who attend college. If there is ever a lower cost, non-traditional route to obtaining a credential that employers can trust, college enrollment will plummet.
09-13-2017 10:04 AM
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ODU_NYG Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 10:04 AM)Sidewinder Wrote:  For a few years now, some have warned about the "education bubble" bursting. Maybe this is the start of it? I don't think we'll see a sudden burst of a bubble soon, but no doubt people are looking for new ways to get an education. I expect this trend to accelerate in the future.

Part of what fuels college enrollment is the realization that most employers will not consider anyone without a degree, even though they couldn't care less what your major was (in other words, what you learned). So why the BA/BS degree requirement? Because it's sort of a signal that says you are able to complete a rigorous process. I knew many in college who were there for this reason. They had the feeling that it didn't matter what they learned, only that they completed a degree. Shortly after I graduated, I was wandering around a car dealer's lot, and a salesman approached me. Turns out that he had just graduated from W&M. Do you really need a bachelor's degree to sell cars? The notion that you attend college to acquire specific knowledge in something you need to know for a career (engineering, accounting, nursing) doesn't apply to many (maybe the majority) who attend college. If there is ever a lower cost, non-traditional route to obtaining a credential that employers can trust, college enrollment will plummet.

I used my degree for a while until I got a much higher paying job doing something completely unrelated to it and that morphed into an even better job with the USG. It all started with a degree though.

Maybe its just me, but for some reason I keep reading about more people considering trade schools over traditional 4-year colleges.
09-13-2017 10:13 AM
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monarx Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
https://www.politico.com/interactives/20...stigation/

An interesting read on rankings and how they have led to college not opening doors to opportunity like they once did. Schools are encouraged to cater to the upper-class to keep their rankings up, and addresses how perception of the school and rankings effect employment options for graduates as much or more than ability. This is leading to less opportunities for the middle and lower class to gain acceptance to top schools and the network and golden status a degree from such schools provides. Basically the name of the school and its ranking matter as much to employers now as the fact that one is educated. The rankings are bogus, but carry more and more weight, but for no other reason than we think they matter when they truly matter very little.
09-13-2017 12:00 PM
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 10:13 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 10:04 AM)Sidewinder Wrote:  For a few years now, some have warned about the "education bubble" bursting. Maybe this is the start of it? I don't think we'll see a sudden burst of a bubble soon, but no doubt people are looking for new ways to get an education. I expect this trend to accelerate in the future.

Part of what fuels college enrollment is the realization that most employers will not consider anyone without a degree, even though they couldn't care less what your major was (in other words, what you learned). So why the BA/BS degree requirement? Because it's sort of a signal that says you are able to complete a rigorous process. I knew many in college who were there for this reason. They had the feeling that it didn't matter what they learned, only that they completed a degree. Shortly after I graduated, I was wandering around a car dealer's lot, and a salesman approached me. Turns out that he had just graduated from W&M. Do you really need a bachelor's degree to sell cars? The notion that you attend college to acquire specific knowledge in something you need to know for a career (engineering, accounting, nursing) doesn't apply to many (maybe the majority) who attend college. If there is ever a lower cost, non-traditional route to obtaining a credential that employers can trust, college enrollment will plummet.

I used my degree for a while until I got a much higher paying job doing something completely unrelated to it and that morphed into an even better job with the USG. It all started with a degree though.

Maybe its just me, but for some reason I keep reading about more people considering trade schools over traditional 4-year colleges.

It is becoming more and more difficult to use a degree to get your foot in the door. Almost all "real" jobs require experience, even to do menial tasks like pushing paper for $35k-$40k/year. A smooth talker with a relatable personality can still excel in sales, but other than specialized sales (IT Products eg.), do they really need a degree? Only the largest companies have true entry level development programs anymore and they are highly competitive and more often than not go to top students from schools like UVA. The average ODU student without big boy experience having a good job lined up would either have to have some really good connections or consider themselves lucky. I don't envy the kids graduating these days.
09-13-2017 12:37 PM
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monarx Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 12:37 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 10:13 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 10:04 AM)Sidewinder Wrote:  For a few years now, some have warned about the "education bubble" bursting. Maybe this is the start of it? I don't think we'll see a sudden burst of a bubble soon, but no doubt people are looking for new ways to get an education. I expect this trend to accelerate in the future.

Part of what fuels college enrollment is the realization that most employers will not consider anyone without a degree, even though they couldn't care less what your major was (in other words, what you learned). So why the BA/BS degree requirement? Because it's sort of a signal that says you are able to complete a rigorous process. I knew many in college who were there for this reason. They had the feeling that it didn't matter what they learned, only that they completed a degree. Shortly after I graduated, I was wandering around a car dealer's lot, and a salesman approached me. Turns out that he had just graduated from W&M. Do you really need a bachelor's degree to sell cars? The notion that you attend college to acquire specific knowledge in something you need to know for a career (engineering, accounting, nursing) doesn't apply to many (maybe the majority) who attend college. If there is ever a lower cost, non-traditional route to obtaining a credential that employers can trust, college enrollment will plummet.

I used my degree for a while until I got a much higher paying job doing something completely unrelated to it and that morphed into an even better job with the USG. It all started with a degree though.

Maybe its just me, but for some reason I keep reading about more people considering trade schools over traditional 4-year colleges.

It is becoming more and more difficult to use a degree to get your foot in the door. Almost all "real" jobs require experience, even to do menial tasks like pushing paper for $35k-$40k/year. A smooth talker with a relatable personality can still excel in sales, but other than specialized sales (IT Products eg.), do they really need a degree? Only the largest companies have true entry level development programs anymore and they are highly competitive and more often than not go to top students from schools like UVA. The average ODU student without big boy experience having a good job lined up would either have to have some really good connections or consider themselves lucky. I don't envy the kids graduating these days.

Many schools have career services centers to help undergrads with advising, connections for internships. resume help, interview prep and mock interviews etc. They also have career fairs brining businesses to students. I don't know if they had this at ODU when I was there, but if they did, I didnt take advantage of it. Hopefully they do have something like this now. Its pretty much a necessity these days.

FWIW, my favorite professor at ODU saw me 2 days before I graduated and casually asked me if I had a job yet. I didnt, but I did have an interview lined up. He gave me the name of another ODU alumnus from several years prior who was looking to hire and had reached out to him for good candidates. I called her, got an interview and was hired a week later, thus getting my foot in the door of what has become a 20 year career. Things like that are why I attribute part of my life's successes to Old Dominion. I hope there are many, many stories like that out there.
09-13-2017 01:50 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 01:50 PM)monarx Wrote:  Many schools have career services centers to help undergrads with advising, connections for internships. resume help, interview prep and mock interviews etc. They also have career fairs brining businesses to students. I don't know if they had this at ODU when I was there, but if they did, I didnt take advantage of it. Hopefully they do have something like this now. Its pretty much a necessity these days.

ODU has all of the above. It is up to the student to take advantage of but it's all there.

Through ODU career fairs, I got interviews set up with all of the firms I was interested in and the first was always on campus, which was really convenient.

The accounting department also holds a great event every semester where they have recruiters give presentations on things like resume and cover letter writing, dressing for interviews and what they look for in a candidate. After the presentations are finished, they serve dinner and it gives students the chance to network with the people who presented. They also have worked with many of the firms to have open house events where students can go and mingle with the staff and partners.

Most importantly, IMO, the accounting department sends out emails to the accounting listserv, both for entry level and experienced professionals, where companies are specifically looking for ODU alums. This is great since you know before you apply if they are content with where you went to school.

Again, my experience with ODU was that they give everyone all the tools necessary to find a job before graduation. Whether the students do or not is dependent on if they took advantage of those opportunities or not.
09-13-2017 02:24 PM
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
The career service center is great, but there isn't but so much they can do if nobody wants to hire a 22 year old with a resume featuring lifeguarding at an apartment pool and bussing tables at TGIFridays, which is about what you will see from the average new graduate.
09-13-2017 02:45 PM
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ODUMONARCHZ1 Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-12-2017 08:30 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  Exactly. Engineering, math and science is the future. Not art, music and psychology. ODU preaches the stem thing but is not excelling in it in the state of VA. ODU needs an image and culture change on the academic front.
I have a music degree from ODU

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09-13-2017 02:46 PM
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MonGNARch Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 02:45 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  The career service center is great, but there isn't but so much they can do if nobody wants to hire a 22 year old with a resume featuring lifeguarding at an apartment pool and bussing tables at TGIFridays, which is about what you will see from the average new graduate.

While I was a waiter in college, I also got internships. I got hired a month before graduation.

It's on the student to prepare for the future. My parents made me find internships starting the first summer after freshman year, and while I hated it (most friends after freshman year didn't do anything, they got to "enjoy" the summer while I sat in a cube and worked on construction sites), it payed off immensely when it came time to applying for a "big boy" job
09-13-2017 03:03 PM
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monarx Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 02:45 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  The career service center is great, but there isn't but so much they can do if nobody wants to hire a 22 year old with a resume featuring lifeguarding at an apartment pool and bussing tables at TGIFridays, which is about what you will see from the average new graduate.

I think thats the one of the biggest changes from 20 years ago to now. If a student wants to get a job right out of school they had better be doing some internships in the summers between junior and senior year. Thats actually an advantage for ODU. Since its an urban university, there are plenty of opportunities for internships in the area that can be done during the school year too. JMU can't offer that.
09-13-2017 03:07 PM
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monarx Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 03:03 PM)MonGNARch Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 02:45 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  The career service center is great, but there isn't but so much they can do if nobody wants to hire a 22 year old with a resume featuring lifeguarding at an apartment pool and bussing tables at TGIFridays, which is about what you will see from the average new graduate.

While I was a waiter in college, I also got internships. I got hired a month before graduation.

It's on the student to prepare for the future. My parents made me find internships starting the first summer after freshman year, and while I hated it (most friends after freshman year didn't do anything, they got to "enjoy" the summer while I sat in a cube and worked on construction sites), it payed off immensely when it came time to applying for a "big boy" job

Your parents sound like smart individuals who gave you great advice. Part of the issue with taking so many students from lower economic backgrounds is that their parents aren't aware of the importance of things like internships. I came from a barely middle-class background (may be lower-middle by todays standards) and I had no idea about the importance of SAT scores, GPAs, internships, resumes etc. All I knew was I wanted to go to college and get a job afterward. Its only by the grace of God that some good people were put in my path to inform me. I was so ignorant at the time. ODU has a responsibility to try to inform, (or demand as Drexel does) students of the importance of internships, presentation, etiquette, interview skills etc. Especially if they are required by the state to take a disproportionate amount of lower-income students than VT, JMU, GMU. theirs).
09-13-2017 03:15 PM
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Murray007 Offline
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RE: ODU Enrollment decline and Academics
(09-13-2017 03:15 PM)monarx Wrote:  Your parents sound like smart individuals who gave you great advice. Part of the issue with taking so many students from lower economic backgrounds is that their parents aren't aware of the importance of things like internships. I came from a barely middle-class background (may be lower-middle by todays standards) and I had no idea about the importance of SAT scores, GPAs, internships, resumes etc. All I knew was I wanted to go to college and get a job afterward. Its only by the grace of God that some good people were put in my path to inform me. I was so ignorant at the time. ODU has a responsibility to try to inform, (or demand as Drexel does) students of the importance of internships, presentation, etiquette, interview skills etc. Especially if they are required by the state to take a disproportionate amount of lower-income students than VT, JMU, GMU. theirs).

This is really key. Too many college students are leaving college unable to gain employment, and while the responsibility ultimately rests with each student, ODU can certainly help by encouraging students to take internships, co-ops, etc.

I am proud to be an ODU alumnus, with both a liberal arts degree (history) and a STEM degree (mathematics), and there is no doubt in my mind that my mathematics program was far more challenging and better prepared me for a full-time career. Remarkably, I rarely use my math skills in my current job (other than statistics), but I certainly use the programming skills I gained (R, MATLAB, Python, etc.).
09-13-2017 07:18 PM
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