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US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #41
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Urban public schools never get much help in these types of polls. If you're in Wichita, Ks., that's probably another hit. Little privates are preferred.


T


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09-12-2017 11:11 AM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #42
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
You keep mentioning Illinois State geef and I will personally pay to have your head examined.


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09-12-2017 11:13 AM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
3-4 years until top 100.
09-12-2017 11:23 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #44
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Dumb ranking. I graduated from a poorly ranked school yet Im smarter than all of you, particularly UCF grads.

Ps. Handsomer too
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 11:45 AM by shere khan.)
09-12-2017 11:34 AM
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geef Offline
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Post: #45
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 11:13 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  You keep mentioning Illinois State geef and I will personally pay to have your head examined.


T


...03-cool

Keep mentioning? I believe it was once. And I like red birds.
09-12-2017 11:35 AM
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UConnHusky Offline
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Post: #46
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Great, another shaft measuring thread. Just what we need. Looks like it is time to unzip....

[Image: yellow-wooden-ruler-picture-id516287496?...bkl8kSmBk=]
09-12-2017 11:38 AM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #47
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 11:35 AM)geef Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 11:13 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  You keep mentioning Illinois State geef and I will personally pay to have your head examined.


T


...03-cool

Keep mentioning? I believe it was once. And I like red birds.

Stanford Cardinal to the AAC?
09-12-2017 11:38 AM
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FlyingTiger2016 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 11:11 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Urban public schools never get much help in these types of polls. If you're in Wichita, Ks., that's probably another hit. Little privates are preferred.


T


...03-cool

Basically, Metropolitan schools are hurt for bring in a diverse student base from the inner cities.

US News is worthless. Probably racist.

Carnegie classification should be the only thing that matters. You go to a University to learn how to do research. Anything else really doesn't matter. At the lower levels like undergraduate, we all teach the same way.
09-12-2017 11:50 AM
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HoustonRocks Offline
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Post: #49
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Grad rate is one problem for UH. USNews metrics are another.
USNews has consistently ranked Texas Tech higher than UH while is is not as good academically. This occurs because "Peer Review" accounts for 22.5% of USNews National Universities ranking and TT has taken advantage. TT claims 27 AAU schools are its peers. TT is not an AAU school. Quick, what does TT have in common with Cal-Berkeley, University of Michigan, and University of Virginia? And what does that say about USNews?

http://www.chronicle.com/interactives/peers-network
Who Does Your College Think Its Peers Are?
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 12:42 PM by HoustonRocks.)
09-12-2017 12:15 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #50
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 12:15 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  Grad rate is one problem for UH. USNews metrics are another.
USNews has consistently ranked Texas Tech higher than UH while is is not as good academically. This occurs because "Peer Review" accounts for 22.5% of USNews National Universities ranking and TT has taken advantage. TT claims 27 AAU schools are its peers. TT is not an AAU school. Quick, what does TT have in common with Cal-Berkeley, University of Michigan, and University of Virginia? And what does that say about USNews?

Now you've gone and done it---


Todge to make an appearance in 3,2,....
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 12:24 PM by CliftonAve.)
09-12-2017 12:23 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #51
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 12:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 12:15 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  Grad rate is one problem for UH. USNews metrics are another.
USNews has consistently ranked Texas Tech higher than UH while is is not as good academically. This occurs because "Peer Review" accounts for 22.5% of USNews National Universities ranking and TT has taken advantage. TT claims 27 AAU schools are its peers. TT is not an AAU school. Quick, what does TT have in common with Cal-Berkeley, University of Michigan, and University of Virginia? And what does that say about USNews?

Now you've gone and done it---


Todge to make an appearance in 3,2,....

Yup...You guys already summoned Wichita.

Way to go. 07-coffee3
09-12-2017 12:27 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #52
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-11-2017 11:25 PM)pesik Wrote:  i honestly don't get usnews rankings

houston is harder to get into than 90 schools in front of them, has bigger endowment than 70 in front of them
a higher Carnegie classification than 70 schools in front of them (the leading college classifier)

i get that Houston has a shittty 4year and 6 year graduation rate but how can you weight it that much in a college ranking

not saying this is houston.. but if you had the best professor in the nation but he is hard and 30% of the students drop out because of that.. and you had the worst teacher in the nation but easy and 100% graduate is the second a better college/professor

i will never understand why that is weighed so heavily

I don't think they consider all (or even most) drop-outs to be related to classes being hard.
09-12-2017 12:45 PM
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Westhoff123 Offline
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Post: #53
US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 12:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 12:15 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  Grad rate is one problem for UH. USNews metrics are another.
USNews has consistently ranked Texas Tech higher than UH while is is not as good academically. This occurs because "Peer Review" accounts for 22.5% of USNews National Universities ranking and TT has taken advantage. TT claims 27 AAU schools are its peers. TT is not an AAU school. Quick, what does TT have in common with Cal-Berkeley, University of Michigan, and University of Virginia? And what does that say about USNews?

Now you've gone and done it---


Todge to make an appearance in 3,2,....

Todge is a tcu fan though...
09-12-2017 01:10 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #54
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 11:10 AM)Kronke Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 10:06 AM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  http://www.usnews.com/education/best-glo...es&page=12
U.S. News - Best Global Universities Rankings 2016 112 368 United States

We're ahead of Syracuse globally, but 130+ spots behind them in the US? Interesting.

Global rankings (whether from the US News, AWRU or Times Higher Education) are almost entirely based on graduate research activity and reputation. That actually levels the playing field a bit between private and public universities.

The US News undergrad rankings, though, are based on undergrad *selectivity*. Note that selectivity isn't just acceptance rate (an overrated factor in the minds of the public and actually accounts for a fairly small percentage of the US News methodology), but the 25th/75th percentile SAT and ACT scores and how many freshmen were in the top 10% of their high school class (which count for much more). A lot of the non-flagship public universities from the largest states like California, Texas and Florida (e.g. NOT Berkeley or UT-Austin) actually have superficially low acceptance rates compared to flagship public universities in other states because of the sheer number of applicants, but on the flip side, they also have lower SAT/ACT scores and class rank metrics than those flagships, which is why they get dinged in the US News rankings. The schools with student bodies that have those higher test score and class rank metrics are considered to be more selective even if they might superficially have a lower acceptance rate... which actually makes sense in reality. Of course, the truly elite schools have BOTH those metrics AND low acceptance rates.

Also, note that it's more difficult to get into virtually EVERY school in the top 100 or so of the US News rankings than it was 5 years ago. That's why every FBS school can probably truthfully and legitimately announce that they have the most academically talented freshman classes in their respective histories this year... but can still be stuck or even move down in the US News rankings. Virtually every school at a certain level is getting more competitive in terms of admissions than ever before, so even if a school is getting better students in an absolute manner, they actually aren't getting better in a *relative* manner to everyone else that are improving at the same or greater rate.

FWIW, there are certain elite professions where your undergrad school matters a ton (such as investment banking or top-level management consulting). Unless you get a job in those firms right out of school, it's VERY tough to break in afterwards unless you subsequently go to a super-elite grad school or you've got a direct nepotistic connection (so the populist belief that you can work your way into those jobs regardless of where you went to school generally doesn't apply). Where the elite education matters most is in the top Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Hollywood or DC jobs. Those are dream jobs for many people, so in those locales, I would never say that an elite education is underrated. (Even the famous college dropouts of Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of *Harvard* and you're not getting hired at Microsoft or Facebook out of school without top educational credentials.) The value of those schools is in the alumni network -- to the extent that you don't have personal connections in those industries, your school *becomes* your personal connection (and that's essentially what you're paying for much more than what you're learning in the Econ 101 class that's effectively taught the same everywhere).

However, if your desire is to work in most other markets and industries in the US, then there are diminishing returns (e.g. if you want to become a CPA, there is ZERO reason for you to pay a single cent more than what you'd be paying for in-state tuition at a public university). The company that I work for hires a good-sized contingent of UH engineering and business grads in our Houston office every year and they perform very well next to their peers from UT, A&M and Texas Tech (or else we wouldn't keep hiring them). There's certainly more of an advantage if you went to UT or A&M in the sense that there's more leeway on GPA and we'll hire larger classes from there, but the best at virtually any school can compete with anyone else.
09-12-2017 02:54 PM
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OUGwave Offline
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Post: #55
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 09:58 AM)mlb Wrote:  I had a boss tell me a few years ago that the name of the school only matters for your first job, after that it is about your accomplishments. He was correct. He also fired a Note Dame grad because he was not capable of doing the job at a level that Wright State grads did (software development). Goes to show that just because you come from a prestigious school doesn't mean you are better educated.

Sent from my SM-G935V using CSNbbs mobile app

This is very much true, but also pre-supposes that the job you get is the primary reason for picking a school. I happen to think that providing a well rounded education is still important for its own sake,for quality of life and impacting the lives of people around you. It isn't just a job training program, or shouldn't be. And of course there are lots of different schools that will fill this need for people.
09-12-2017 03:02 PM
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CornellCoog Offline
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Post: #56
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
LOL at Sand Aggies listing Georgia Tech, UCLA, Cal Berkeley, and Michigan as peers.

That was a fun tool to look at. Texas Tech clearly chose schools way out of its stratosphere. Reeks of desperation. Chose almost 60 peers but only a handful chose Tech as a peer in return.

So, the school is just like the coeds; skanks.
09-12-2017 04:39 PM
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FlyingTiger2016 Offline
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RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 02:54 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 11:10 AM)Kronke Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 10:06 AM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  http://www.usnews.com/education/best-glo...es&page=12
U.S. News - Best Global Universities Rankings 2016 112 368 United States

We're ahead of Syracuse globally, but 130+ spots behind them in the US? Interesting.

Global rankings (whether from the US News, AWRU or Times Higher Education) are almost entirely based on graduate research activity and reputation. That actually levels the playing field a bit between private and public universities.

The US News undergrad rankings, though, are based on undergrad *selectivity*. Note that selectivity isn't just acceptance rate (an overrated factor in the minds of the public and actually accounts for a fairly small percentage of the US News methodology), but the 25th/75th percentile SAT and ACT scores and how many freshmen were in the top 10% of their high school class (which count for much more). A lot of the non-flagship public universities from the largest states like California, Texas and Florida (e.g. NOT Berkeley or UT-Austin) actually have superficially low acceptance rates compared to flagship public universities in other states because of the sheer number of applicants, but on the flip side, they also have lower SAT/ACT scores and class rank metrics than those flagships, which is why they get dinged in the US News rankings. The schools with student bodies that have those higher test score and class rank metrics are considered to be more selective even if they might superficially have a lower acceptance rate... which actually makes sense in reality. Of course, the truly elite schools have BOTH those metrics AND low acceptance rates.

Also, note that it's more difficult to get into virtually EVERY school in the top 100 or so of the US News rankings than it was 5 years ago. That's why every FBS school can probably truthfully and legitimately announce that they have the most academically talented freshman classes in their respective histories this year... but can still be stuck or even move down in the US News rankings. Virtually every school at a certain level is getting more competitive in terms of admissions than ever before, so even if a school is getting better students in an absolute manner, they actually aren't getting better in a *relative* manner to everyone else that are improving at the same or greater rate.

FWIW, there are certain elite professions where your undergrad school matters a ton (such as investment banking or top-level management consulting). Unless you get a job in those firms right out of school, it's VERY tough to break in afterwards unless you subsequently go to a super-elite grad school or you've got a direct nepotistic connection (so the populist belief that you can work your way into those jobs regardless of where you went to school generally doesn't apply). Where the elite education matters most is in the top Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Hollywood or DC jobs. Those are dream jobs for many people, so in those locales, I would never say that an elite education is underrated. (Even the famous college dropouts of Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of *Harvard* and you're not getting hired at Microsoft or Facebook out of school without top educational credentials.) The value of those schools is in the alumni network -- to the extent that you don't have personal connections in those industries, your school *becomes* your personal connection (and that's essentially what you're paying for much more than what you're learning in the Econ 101 class that's effectively taught the same everywhere).

However, if your desire is to work in most other markets and industries in the US, then there are diminishing returns (e.g. if you want to become a CPA, there is ZERO reason for you to pay a single cent more than what you'd be paying for in-state tuition at a public university). The company that I work for hires a good-sized contingent of UH engineering and business grads in our Houston office every year and they perform very well next to their peers from UT, A&M and Texas Tech (or else we wouldn't keep hiring them). There's certainly more of an advantage if you went to UT or A&M in the sense that there's more leeway on GPA and we'll hire larger classes from there, but the best at virtually any school can compete with anyone else.

You can get a job at a FANG without an elite degree. Finance is a bit different, but there are firms outside the bulge bracket that do hire.

As a software developer, I heard from Amazon a lot less until I attend Georgia Tech, but their recruiters still contacted me. My former coworkers and friends who now work there didn't graduate from top schools. Rhodes/Memphis, some school from Israel that wasn't Technion, Memphis/Michigan, etc.

I'm sure management is different.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 07:00 PM by FlyingTiger2016.)
09-12-2017 04:49 PM
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OUGwave Offline
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Post: #58
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 04:39 PM)CornellCoog Wrote:  LOL at Sand Aggies listing Georgia Tech, UCLA, Cal Berkeley, and Michigan as peers.

That was a fun tool to look at. Texas Tech clearly chose schools way out of its stratosphere. Reeks of desperation. Chose almost 60 peers but only a handful chose Tech as a peer in return.

So, the school is just like the coeds; skanks.

I liked Tulane's approach of not even providing any peers. That's how you prove you're really an elite. 07-coffee3
09-12-2017 04:56 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
There's no school in Israel besides Technion :)
09-12-2017 04:57 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 04:49 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 02:54 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 11:10 AM)Kronke Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 10:06 AM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  http://www.usnews.com/education/best-glo...es&page=12
U.S. News - Best Global Universities Rankings 2016 112 368 United States

We're ahead of Syracuse globally, but 130+ spots behind them in the US? Interesting.

Global rankings (whether from the US News, AWRU or Times Higher Education) are almost entirely based on graduate research activity and reputation. That actually levels the playing field a bit between private and public universities.

The US News undergrad rankings, though, are based on undergrad *selectivity*. Note that selectivity isn't just acceptance rate (an overrated factor in the minds of the public and actually accounts for a fairly small percentage of the US News methodology), but the 25th/75th percentile SAT and ACT scores and how many freshmen were in the top 10% of their high school class (which count for much more). A lot of the non-flagship public universities from the largest states like California, Texas and Florida (e.g. NOT Berkeley or UT-Austin) actually have superficially low acceptance rates compared to flagship public universities in other states because of the sheer number of applicants, but on the flip side, they also have lower SAT/ACT scores and class rank metrics than those flagships, which is why they get dinged in the US News rankings. The schools with student bodies that have those higher test score and class rank metrics are considered to be more selective even if they might superficially have a lower acceptance rate... which actually makes sense in reality. Of course, the truly elite schools have BOTH those metrics AND low acceptance rates.

Also, note that it's more difficult to get into virtually EVERY school in the top 100 or so of the US News rankings than it was 5 years ago. That's why every FBS school can probably truthfully and legitimately announce that they have the most academically talented freshman classes in their respective histories this year... but can still be stuck or even move down in the US News rankings. Virtually every school at a certain level is getting more competitive in terms of admissions than ever before, so even if a school is getting better students in an absolute manner, they actually aren't getting better in a *relative* manner to everyone else that are improving at the same or greater rate.

FWIW, there are certain elite professions where your undergrad school matters a ton (such as investment banking or top-level management consulting). Unless you get a job in those firms right out of school, it's VERY tough to break in afterwards unless you subsequently go to a super-elite grad school or you've got a direct nepotistic connection (so the populist belief that you can work your way into those jobs regardless of where you went to school generally doesn't apply). Where the elite education matters most is in the top Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Hollywood or DC jobs. Those are dream jobs for many people, so in those locales, I would never say that an elite education is underrated. (Even the famous college dropouts of Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of *Harvard* and you're not getting hired at Microsoft or Facebook out of school without top educational credentials.) The value of those schools is in the alumni network -- to the extent that you don't have personal connections in those industries, your school *becomes* your personal connection (and that's essentially what you're paying for much more than what you're learning in the Econ 101 class that's effectively taught the same everywhere).

However, if your desire is to work in most other markets and industries in the US, then there are diminishing returns (e.g. if you want to become a CPA, there is ZERO reason for you to pay a single cent more than what you'd be paying for in-state tuition at a public university). The company that I work for hires a good-sized contingent of UH engineering and business grads in our Houston office every year and they perform very well next to their peers from UT, A&M and Texas Tech (or else we wouldn't keep hiring them). There's certainly more of an advantage if you went to UT or A&M in the sense that there's more leeway on GPA and we'll hire larger classes from there, but the best at virtually any school can compete with anyone else.

You can get a job at a FANG without an elite degree. Finance is a bit different, but there are firms outside the bulge bracket that do hire.

As a software developer, I heard from Amazon a lot less until attend Georgia Tech, but their recruiters still contacted me. My former coworkers and friends who now work there didn't graduate from top schools. Rhodes/Memphis, some school from Israel that wasn't Technion, Memphis/Michigan, etc.

I'm sure management is different.

True on FANG, although they have a different set of who they consider to be "elite" compared to finance. FANG companies are obviously looking at schools with top engineering and computer science programs first and foremost, where once you get beyond Stanford/MIT/Carnegie Mellon, they constitute a lot of top tier public flagships (Berkeley, Michigan, Illinois, Washington, etc.) and flagship-equivalents (like your alma mater Georgia Tech along with Purdue) as opposed to the Ivy/Ivy-equivalents. That's not to say that FANG doesn't like its Ivy-level grads, but they're (a) looking at a different group of schools and (b) casting a wider net since top tech talent is in such high demand. Also, quantitative fields and computer science have more objective measures of qualifications where it's more important to show "what you know" coming in the door and they're somewhat less concerned with academic prestige in and of itself, while places that hire on qualitative factors (such as Goldman Sachs and McKinsey) are laser-focused on academic prestige and "who you know" and take who they believe are very smart overall grads and train them in their methodologies regardless of background.

It sort of makes sense. A consumer that is using an app doesn't care whether that app was created by someone that went to MIT or directional state U as long as it works well. In contrast, the "consumers" of firms like Goldman Sachs and McKinsey are C-level executives that are often hiring those firms for CYA reasons (e.g. a report to the Board of Directors justifying a potential acquisition or organizational change), so the comfort of seeing that those firms have an army of Harvard grads working on an issue is what they're paying for.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 05:07 PM by Frank the Tank.)
09-12-2017 05:05 PM
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