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US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
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mike012779 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
If the rankings don't work for you..... blame the rankings....That's whining 101
09-12-2017 09:13 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #22
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 07:05 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  At my age, I've been around the block a few times and from my experience the best skilled people tend to rise up the org chart or considered highly valued regardless of the origin of their college degree(s).

I agree 100%. This is a yearly masturbatory thread.
09-12-2017 09:19 AM
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JDTulane Offline
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Post: #23
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Once you hit the top 50 there's a strong bottle neck between 50-25 and an even skinnier dance between 25-10. Happy Tulane is moving in the right direction vs. 5 years ago.

These are meaningless to some degree as we compare apples to oranges. When I make my hires it won't be because one person is a 35 school vs. another being a 45.
09-12-2017 09:30 AM
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JDTulane Offline
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Post: #24
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
FWIW we got this blurb in our inboxes today:

Quote:Tulane University is one of the country’s best institutions of higher education according to the 2018 U.S. News & World Report Best Colleges rankings, which were released today. The popular rankings give Tulane high marks in numerous categories, noting it as a national research university known for the innovation of its curriculum, its focus on student success, its welcoming of veterans and its dedication to public service.

Tulane is ranked 40th among “Best National Universities” and its undergraduate business school is 45th among the nation’s “Best Business Programs.”

Tulane is also ranked 24th among the “Most Innovative Schools.” The schools in this category were selected by fellow university presidents, provosts and admission deans for the innovative improvements they have made in their curriculum, faculty, students, campus life, technology or facilities.

In the “High School Counselors Top College Picks” category Tulane is ranked 39th. The rankings also highlight Tulane’s focus on initiatives that encourage student success, including its service learning program, which is ranked in the nation’s top 25.

“These rankings indicate the success of Tulane’s interdisciplinary approach to research, teaching and learning,” Tulane President Mike Fitts said. “Student and faculty at Tulane combine knowledge from fields as diverse as the arts, engineering, music, medicine and more to address the challenges of our community and our world.”

The rankings come on the heels of Tulane welcoming one of its largest, most academically qualified and diverse first-year classes ever this fall.

Tulane also recently announced that the 2016-17 fiscal year was the best fundraising year in its 183-year history, with new gifts and commitments surpassing $126 million (04-cheers). The increased funding means Tulane can recruit and retain more renowned faculty and provide more support for scholarships, programming and campus facilities.
09-12-2017 09:34 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #25
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
[quote='JDTulane' pid='14576940' dateline='1505226885']
FWIW we got this blurb in our inboxes today:

Quote:Tulane University is one of the country’s best institutions of higher education according to the 2018 U.S. News & World Report Best Colleges rankings, which were released today.

Not surprised at all. Everyone in academia knows that, despite the obvious methodological flaws in them, the US News rankings have a great deal of meaning, and have a big influence on school behavior.

It's one thing to say the rankings are flawed, they are. It's another to claim they are meaningless, they aren't.
09-12-2017 09:38 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 09:02 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 08:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 07:08 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  USF making a move and now that we have met the state requirements for being a Pre-Eminent school joining UF and FSU in getting more money and recognition that should improve. Our president's move to meet AAU status has raised the bar across the university and is paying off

Genshaft has done a very good job upgrading our academics, and in getting the word out about what we're achieving. That's a really tough thing to move the needle on, particularly at such a large university. I know she's highly paid, and not everyone at USF likes that, but IMO she's getting the job done so she's worth it.

I agree with you she has raised USF to a higher academic standard even after the state took USF polytechnic away from the school and took some of the endowment with them as well as facilities

Yes, and IIRC, in Genshaft's very first year as president, we lost New College, which had always added some lustre to our brand.

Losing "Poly" sucked and there was no good academic reason for it, it was pure pork-barrel power politics from that Lake Wales senator (Alexander?). Losing that campus did highlight the still-weak political position USF is in relative to UF and FSU. One can blame Genshaft for it if you like but I don't think anyone could have stopped it. We are just a long way from the halls of state power and probably always will be.

On a personal note, as a USF doctoral student, i taught several classes there when it was USF-Lakeland in the early 1990s, and had good memories of the campus so was sad to see us lose it.

Nevertheless, the academic gains at USF have been impressive in recent years.
09-12-2017 09:49 AM
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pesik Offline
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Post: #27
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 09:13 AM)mike012779 Wrote:  If the rankings don't work for you..... blame the rankings....That's whining 101

If the rankings work for you.... ignore the flaws.... that's homer 101
09-12-2017 09:50 AM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #28
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 09:50 AM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 09:13 AM)mike012779 Wrote:  If the rankings don't work for you..... blame the rankings....That's whining 101

If the rankings work for you.... ignore the flaws.... that's homer 101

No one is arguing that it doesn't have its flaws. But you have your head in the sand if you think it's meaningless.
09-12-2017 09:53 AM
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geef Offline
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Post: #29
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
What time is it in Wichita? Are they not shocked awake yet? They're usually all over every thread.
09-12-2017 09:53 AM
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mlb Offline
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Post: #30
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
I had a boss tell me a few years ago that the name of the school only matters for your first job, after that it is about your accomplishments. He was correct. He also fired a Note Dame grad because he was not capable of doing the job at a level that Wright State grads did (software development). Goes to show that just because you come from a prestigious school doesn't mean you are better educated.

Sent from my SM-G935V using CSNbbs mobile app
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 09:58 AM by mlb.)
09-12-2017 09:58 AM
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pesik Offline
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Post: #31
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 09:53 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 09:50 AM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 09:13 AM)mike012779 Wrote:  If the rankings don't work for you..... blame the rankings....That's whining 101

If the rankings work for you.... ignore the flaws.... that's homer 101

No one is arguing that it doesn't have its flaws. But you have your head in the sand if you think it's meaningless.

i never said it was meaningless ..houston rankings bother me because it does matter

i just read an article that explains it...usnews really measures student quality (how much the student will get from the school and how much will they enjoy it)

which is why graduation rates/student retention make up close to 30% of the equation for the rankings and why alumni donations are also major factor (if you liked your school you will be more willing to donate)

usnews isnt a measure of academic prowess (even though academic prowess is included in the equation, youll get more out of the school if it has more prestige)

the problem is the usnews is portrayed as a academic measuring stick to everyone, when it really isn't
09-12-2017 10:03 AM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #32
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 10:03 AM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 09:53 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 09:50 AM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 09:13 AM)mike012779 Wrote:  If the rankings don't work for you..... blame the rankings....That's whining 101

If the rankings work for you.... ignore the flaws.... that's homer 101

No one is arguing that it doesn't have its flaws. But you have your head in the sand if you think it's meaningless.

i never said it was meaningless ..houston rankings bother me because it does matter

i just read an article that explains it...usnews really measures student quality (how much the student will get from the school and how much will they enjoy it)

which is why graduation rates/student retention make up close to 30% of the equation for the rankings and why alumni donations are also major factor (if you liked your school you will be more willing to donate)

usnews isnt a measure of academic prowess (even though academic prowess is included in the equation, youll get more out of the school if it has more prestige)

the problem is the usnews is portrayed as a academic measuring stick to everyone, when it really isn't

That's fair.
09-12-2017 10:05 AM
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HoustonRocks Offline
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Post: #33
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Academic rankings of the University of Houston

The ranking by a specific organization can be selected to show a university
to be ranked low or high. Forbes ranking shows Houston at a poor #342 among
U.S. Universities while Policy.mic gives it a very high rank of #4.

A more objective assessment can be obtained by omitting Outliers and using a
sufficiently high number of rankings. Omitting the two Outliers, Forbes and
Policy.mic, and using rankings by nine organizations from six countries
ranks UH at #108.


Organization(Link) Year U.S. Rank World Rank Location

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2016.html
Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU) 2016 72-98 201-300 Shanghai

http://www.leidenranking.com/ranking CWTS Leiden Ranking 2016 114 382 Netherlands

http://cwur.org/2014 Center for World University Rankings (CWUR) 2016 94 233 Saudi Arabia

http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list Forbes 2016 342 N/A United States

http://www.topuniversities.com/universit...se+search= QS World University Rankings 2015/16 103 501-550 United Kingdom

http://webometrics.info/en Ranking Web of Universities2016 89 197 Spain

https://mup.asu.edu/sites/default/files/...Report.pdf Top American Research Universities (TARU) 2013 72 N/A United States

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/stu...ted-states
The Times Higher Education 2016-2017 98 351-400 United Kingdom

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...uston-3652
U.S. News - National Universities Rankings 2016 194 N/A United States

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-glo...es&page=12
U.S. News - Best Global Universities Rankings 2016 112 368 United States

http://mic.com/articles/60823/12-top-col...their-buck
Policy.mic - Best Bang For Their Buck 2013 4 N/A United States

Using the high end of the range [72-98] for ARWU, Omitting Outliers: Forbes(389)
and Policy.mic(4), the sum of 9 rankings
98 + 114 +94 + 103 + 89 + 72 + 98 + 194 + 112 is 974. The average is 108.

UH would be a top 100 university as viewed by eight organizations from six countries
with a rank of 97.5 if the USNews rank(194) was omitted. That is not the chosen path.
UH has several efforts in progress which will improve USNews rankings as well as
rankings by others. They include:
the UHin4 Program, increasing research, becoming more residential, and
improvements in SAT of incoming freshmen, Acceptance percent, and faculty.

UH annually issues a progress card. The card shows metrics including some used by the AAU.
http://www.uhsystem.edu/uh-system/planni...%20web.pdf
09-12-2017 10:06 AM
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pesik Offline
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Post: #34
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
and how can i say it doesnt matter..UH literally started like 5 initiative to get students to graduate on time just to increase our usnews rankings

UH tried to make freshmen housing mandatory (which was shut down by the senate)..studies show people who live on campus have a dramatically higher chance of graduating

Uh started a UHin4 program, that gives anyone who enrolls in the program dramatically lower tuition, and priority over seniors when picking classes ..but you must graduate in 4 years

im not too worried about our rankings, all the UHin4 kids start graduating in 2/3 years so our rankings should improve then

all im saying is that even if it does improve, the fact graduation rates are weighed so heavily is dumb
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 10:21 AM by pesik.)
09-12-2017 10:11 AM
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eltigre Offline
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Post: #35
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 09:58 AM)mlb Wrote:  I had a boss tell me a few years ago that the name of the school only matters for your first job, after that it is about your accomplishments. He was correct. He also fired a Note Dame grad because he was not capable of doing the job at a level that Wright State grads did (software development). Goes to show that just because you come from a prestigious school doesn't mean you are better educated.

Sent from my SM-G935V using CSNbbs mobile app

That is exactly right.
09-12-2017 10:17 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Houston is a terrific school. I'm very disappointed to see their US News Ranking. I'm not a fan of school rankings anyways. The schools I went to (neither Boise St nor Gonzaga) were not high ranking schools HOWEVER when applying for jobs and during interviews, the interviewers noted that my schools were good in developing useful skills rather than purely a theoretical education.

I am of the opinion that it is not where you went but how you use it. Going to a highly ranked school does open doors but it doesn't do your work for you. I know plenty of Ivy and Ivy-esce graduates doing nothing but waiting for a handout. I also know plenty of CC graduates doing the same. I know many people from all over the education spectrum working hard to earn a living.
09-12-2017 10:19 AM
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Stats are all well and good, but a significant factor in the US News rankings is perception among leaders of other academic institutions. In some areas of the country, Houston has a reputation, rightly or wrongly, as a glorified high school. Its reputation in some circles is exceedingly poor. You have to assume academics throughout the country, with no real familiarity with the University, have the same general opinions, even if those opinions are unjustified. Hence, UH's US News ranking is consequence of that reputation.

Academic reputations change very, very slowly. Sports have helped schools like BC and ND rise up the rankings. No one considered ND an elite academic institution 35 years ago. It was a good school, but not a top 20 type university. BC's applications skyrocketed in the 80s thanks to Doug Flutie and they haven't looked back. On the other hand, Wash U in St. Louis rose up the rankings as its endowment increased. It was one of the first schools to make fundraising a priority and it has paid off in a big way.

US News rankings need to be taken with a grain of salt. If you attend one of the top 20-30 schools, it does help you get a foot in the door when you start your career. Does it matter 20 into your career? Not so much. William Berger graduated from what is now the 126th out of 144 rank law schools and he managed to become Chief Judge of the Supreme Court. It is what you do after you get your degree that matters.
09-12-2017 10:34 AM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #38
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
Our grad rates were horrible. They are improving rapidly.

The 4-year grad rate for the UH freshman class of 2012 was 30%, which is decent for a public university. The UHin4 program started with the 2014 freshmen. This program freezes tuition for students who commit to graduate in 4 years. More and more kids sign up each year. I believe our 4-year grad rate will approach 40% in a few years, which will be unbelievable progress and something to celebrate.

Of course, the USNWR uses 6-year grad rates, and those are slower to move. Currently, we are at 51% for the class of 2010. The national average for public universities is 59%. We are projected to hit 54% for the class of 2011, and 60% by the class of 2012. With UHin4 also helping 6-year grad rates starting with the class of 2014, I expect UH to eventually hit a 6-year grad rate of 70%.

Let's see how USNWR ranks Houston once our grad rate surpasses the national public average in a few years.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 10:52 AM by CougarRed.)
09-12-2017 10:46 AM
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pesik Offline
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Post: #39
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 10:34 AM)MU88 Wrote:  Stats are all well and good, but a significant factor in the US News rankings is perception among leaders of other academic institutions. In some areas of the country, Houston has a reputation, rightly or wrongly, as a glorified high school. Its reputation in some circles is exceedingly poor. You have to assume academics throughout the country, with no real familiarity with the University, have the same general opinions, even if those opinions are unjustified. Hence, UH's US News ranking is consequence of that reputation.

Academic reputations change very, very slowly. Sports have helped schools like BC and ND rise up the rankings. No one considered ND an elite academic institution 35 years ago. It was a good school, but not a top 20 type university. BC's applications skyrocketed in the 80s thanks to Doug Flutie and they haven't looked back. On the other hand, Wash U in St. Louis rose up the rankings as its endowment increased. It was one of the first schools to make fundraising a priority and it has paid off in a big way.

US News rankings need to be taken with a grain of salt. If you attend one of the top 20-30 schools, it does help you get a foot in the door when you start your career. Does it matter 20 into your career? Not so much. William Berger graduated from what is now the 126th out of 144 rank law schools and he managed to become Chief Judge of the Supreme Court. It is what you do after you get your degree that matters.

the people giving these perception ranks arent a&m college football fans... the glorified high school remarks is an outdate thing and used almost only in football trash talk almost exclusively in the south regions..

the perception / human part of the rankings are given by academic officials... in the academic circles UH is viewed very highly. even though it fell through it was just a few years ago cornell wanted to make a joint medical school with UH.. in most purely academic rankings or tier-ing like the carnegie foundation, uh is the highest tier

It has little to do with perception.. look at our graduation rate (its very bad), we know what the problem is. on the USNEWS website it says graduation rate is one of its biggest measuring tools
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 11:07 AM by pesik.)
09-12-2017 11:05 AM
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Kronke Offline
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Post: #40
RE: US News Rankings (or unrankings for some), AAC edition
(09-12-2017 10:06 AM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  http://www.usnews.com/education/best-glo...es&page=12
U.S. News - Best Global Universities Rankings 2016 112 368 United States

We're ahead of Syracuse globally, but 130+ spots behind them in the US? Interesting.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 11:11 AM by Kronke.)
09-12-2017 11:10 AM
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