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george14 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 08:57 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Chip Enema,
As usual, you only refer to one of the votes taken in 1984. The first vote was to kick Eastern football out of the MAC, and it was 8-2 with Central voting with the eight. As usual you continue to disrespect a good reporter who worked for the Detroit News at the time.
I was wrong in stating 1981, it was 1984 that the votes took place.
You and Chippitt should go back to page 16 on your website to review the research of the article in the Detroit News at the time this came about.

We use ChippewasInsider FYI.

Also, I was born in 1990 so excuse my ignorance, but why is this a big deal? I am looking back at those years and EMU won like 3 games in those 4 years combined. I understand the animosity to a certain extent, but can you provide some context to why you routinely bring this up? UMass was a black eye to the MAC in recent memory (along with EMU until last year) and everyone wanted them out. So why is it a big deal to vote to kick out EMU during a period where they were horrible? If CMU posted seasons of: 1-9, 0-11, 1-9-1, 1-10, I would expect everyone in the MAC to make fun of us and want us out.

I know you have your thoughts and they will never change, but I really encourage you to do some research yourself. I could be wrong and missing something, but I have found nothing of a vote taking place in 1981. The only thing I found was from 1984, which Chippit cited, and CMU abstained from voting:

"Eastern Michigan and Western Michigan voted against it. Central Michigan (CMU) was sympathetic to their fellow Michigan school, but they were in a tough position. The MAC was incredibly unstable and rumors swirled of an impending exodus of the MAC schools who met FBS standards. As one of the five schools who could meet FBS requirements CMU had conference realignment options. If CMU were to vote in favor of EMU, they would alienate the very schools whose support they would need to find a new home if the MAC imploded. With every other MAC school voting against EMU it didn’t matter which way CMU voted, the result would be the same. CMU decided to abstain to avoid offending either side for a final tally of 7-2-1. Eastern Michigan had just been expelled from its conference six weeks before the college football season started."
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 11:00 AM by george14.)
09-12-2017 10:46 AM
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Chippitt Offline
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Post: #22
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 08:19 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Chippitt,
if one goes back to the early seventies one will find that even though both schools were admitted to the MAC in the same year, Eastern was admitted first. Therefore, the point that we then used whatever influence we had, to admit Central

That's not quite right.

The MAC announced on July 20, 1971 that they would add EMU and CMU, leading to disappointment at 2 other universities that were rejected - Cincinnati and Louisville.

Quite frankly, I think a healthy level of animosity is good for our rivalry. I just don't agree with your summary of what transpired many years ago.
09-12-2017 11:03 AM
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Ken Barna Online
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Post: #23
RE: MAC is back!
Dear george14,
Maybe you missed my statement a few comments ago. In my haste to mention the Central vote, I said I was wrong about the year. It was 1984.
I also said which you and the other Central people fail to acknowledge, that there were two votes. The first to kick Eastern out for football, and Central voted to kick out Eastern. The vote was 8-2 with Western abstaining. The second vote came because the MAC schools realized that if Eastern was not allowed football, then they could not be in the league. That is how they arrived at a decision to keep Eastern in the league.
Maybe you do not have an understanding of the past, but Eastern and Central were once part of the IIAC. That is why people at Eastern felt we should help Central get into the MAC. My animosity comes from the fact that when we supported Central, they voted in the own self interest. If, Central and the other schools in the MAC at that time were so worried, then they should have left and started their own league. They were either chicken or knew the grass was not greener.
09-12-2017 11:24 AM
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Huron Boy Offline
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Post: #24
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 11:03 AM)Chippitt Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 08:19 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Chippitt,
if one goes back to the early seventies one will find that even though both schools were admitted to the MAC in the same year, Eastern was admitted first. Therefore, the point that we then used whatever influence we had, to admit Central

That's not quite right.

The MAC announced on July 20, 1971 that they would add EMU and CMU, leading to disappointment at 2 other universities that were rejected - Cincinnati and Louisville.

Quite frankly, I think a healthy level of animosity is good for our rivalry. I just don't agree with your summary of what transpired many years ago.

I remember that vote - and when we needed CMU in our corner they were not there. As for this year, all I know is that I've enjoyed our 2016/2017 football and basketball wins very, very much - Let the @zz kicking continue!!! 02-13-banana
09-12-2017 11:27 AM
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Ken Barna Online
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Post: #25
RE: MAC is back!
Dear Chippitt,
Yes the announcement came out that Eastern and Central were being admitted at that time, but Eastern was admitted first, then Central, and then the announcement. You are also incorrect about Cincinnati and Louisville. They rejected the MAC.
09-12-2017 11:30 AM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 11:24 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear george14,
Maybe you missed my statement a few comments ago. In my haste to mention the Central vote, I said I was wrong about the year. It was 1984.
I also said which you and the other Central people fail to acknowledge, that there were two votes. The first to kick Eastern out for football, and Central voted to kick out Eastern. The vote was 8-2 with Western abstaining. The second vote came because the MAC schools realized that if Eastern was not allowed football, then they could not be in the league. That is how they arrived at a decision to keep Eastern in the league.
Maybe you do not have an understanding of the past, but Eastern and Central were once part of the IIAC. That is why people at Eastern felt we should help Central get into the MAC. My animosity comes from the fact that when we supported Central, they voted in the own self interest. If, Central and the other schools in the MAC at that time were so worried, then they should have left and started their own league. They were either chicken or knew the grass was not greener.

Please cite your claims. There is nothing that I have found that indicates there were 2 separate votes. Not to mention, your post makes no sense. You claim 8-2 with WMU abstaining? There were only 10 teams in the league, so that is impossible.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I think it's pretty clear what you are doing here. You realize you have remembered the past incorrectly, yet still sticking to your original point by trying to make up some "secret vote" that took place. I know this is the EMU board and everyone is going to jump all over me, but you are literally making things up. I have never heard anyone mention this aside from you. We have provided sources that illustrate what happened (https://sportspolitico.com/2016/12/23/wh...ollowed/): CMU actually abstained from voting while everyone else voted against them, minus WMU. So I'm not sure what you are talking about.

I will take back all of this if you can provide me a source or link.
09-12-2017 11:54 AM
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Chippitt Offline
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Post: #27
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 11:30 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Chippitt,
Yes the announcement came out that Eastern and Central were being admitted at that time, but Eastern was admitted first, then Central, and then the announcement. You are also incorrect about Cincinnati and Louisville. They rejected the MAC.

According to the AP, everything you've just posted is incorrect.

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/18103162/
09-12-2017 11:56 AM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 11:56 AM)Chippitt Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 11:30 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Chippitt,
Yes the announcement came out that Eastern and Central were being admitted at that time, but Eastern was admitted first, then Central, and then the announcement. You are also incorrect about Cincinnati and Louisville. They rejected the MAC.

According to the AP, everything you've just posted is incorrect.

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/18103162/

I just asked him to cite his claims, but he wont. He is going to post something condescending and anecdotal, to which there is no evidence for. He is probably a lot older and remembering it incorrectly. Good thing about today is we have the Internet and can cite things.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 12:03 PM by george14.)
09-12-2017 12:02 PM
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EagleTough Offline
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Post: #29
RE: MAC is back!
03-shhhh
09-12-2017 12:11 PM
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Ken Barna Online
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Post: #30
RE: MAC is back!
Dear Chippawas,
I may be wrong on the vote 8-2, however I am not wrong on how Central voted. You voted against Eastern. If, you have read the entire postings on this thread I have told you to re-visit page 16 of the Central Blog of CSNbbs. There I quoted for Chip Enema at he time, the story printed in the Detroit News in 1984 by reporter Larry Middlemas. I listed section and page of the story as well. If, you go to read the News article, it spells out very clearly what I have said.
Of course you can choose, as you have, to give alternate facts. which aren't.
09-12-2017 12:20 PM
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EMUAARON Offline
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Post: #31
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 11:54 AM)george14 Wrote:  Please cite your claims. There is nothing that I have found that indicates there were 2 separate votes. Not to mention, your post makes no sense. You claim 8-2 with WMU abstaining? There were only 10 teams in the league, so that is impossible.

there were definitely two separate votes

http://commons.emich.edu/cgi/viewcontent...text=focus

http://commons.emich.edu/cgi/viewcontent...text=focus

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/99094042/
09-12-2017 12:27 PM
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Ken Barna Online
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Post: #32
RE: MAC is back!
Dear EMUAARON,
Thanks for the support.
09-12-2017 12:34 PM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 12:27 PM)EMUAARON Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 11:54 AM)george14 Wrote:  Please cite your claims. There is nothing that I have found that indicates there were 2 separate votes. Not to mention, your post makes no sense. You claim 8-2 with WMU abstaining? There were only 10 teams in the league, so that is impossible.

there were definitely two separate votes

http://commons.emich.edu/cgi/viewcontent...text=focus

http://commons.emich.edu/cgi/viewcontent...text=focus

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/99094042/

Yes, there was a vote from the MAC to kick out, then there was a vote to reinstate, which was 10-0 because the NCAA said the MAC can't do that.

Ken is claiming there was a vote where CMU voted to kick out, then CMU voted to abstain. All we are asking for is the evidence that CMU voted to kick EMU out. I have found nothing citing that.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2017 12:36 PM by george14.)
09-12-2017 12:35 PM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 12:34 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear EMUAARON,
Thanks for the support.

Ken I searched what you type and nothing came up. You took a month and a half to make up something about a 5-5 deadlock.

Where is the evidence? You typed that without actually citing any type of link or even posting a picture. There is no evidence of what you said.
09-12-2017 12:37 PM
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Ken Barna Online
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Post: #35
RE: MAC is back!
Dear george14,
I only stated that Central voted to kick out. I did not say that they abstained. You need to go to the Detroit News article that I have mentioned.
09-12-2017 12:38 PM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 12:38 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear george14,
I only stated that Central voted to kick out. I did not say that they abstained. You need to go to the Detroit News article that I have mentioned.

Kenneth,
I just provided a source citing that CMU abstained from voting. The votes were 7 in favor, 2 against, and 1 abstained.
09-12-2017 12:39 PM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: MAC is back!
Ken,
I am searching the Detroit News historical papers and cannot find any of your keywords. Please provide a link to what you stated.

Thanks
09-12-2017 12:44 PM
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Ken Barna Online
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Post: #38
RE: MAC is back!
Dear george14,
The Detroit News sports section page 7-E of July 17, 1984, Larry Middlemas.
09-12-2017 12:57 PM
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george14 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: MAC is back!
(09-12-2017 12:57 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear george14,
The Detroit News sports section page 7-E of July 17, 1984, Larry Middlemas.

I searched the archives and found nothing from Larry Middlemas in 1984.
09-12-2017 01:06 PM
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Ken Barna Online
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Post: #40
RE: MAC is back!
Dear George14,
I can't help you any more than I have. When I first reported this to Chip Enema, I found this in the micro-film of the library. Remember this is now over thirty years ago. I'm sure that's where you will have to go for this article.
09-12-2017 01:10 PM
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